What is your last straw?

[Deathrider1579]

Ok,
I am sure I am going to get flamed for this question but here we go anyway.

I have been a lurker / fan of Oleg for about 3 years now, I have much enjoyed printing out and putting up his posters around my dorm room in college and now my office at work. And talking to people who come in and say “holy crap”.

Any way we all say Μολon λαβέ and some mean it some don't. But then I read about some say "gee I sure hope they don't ban semi-autos / mag fed weapons where I am" my general response to that is ***?!? If they ban them they have to come and take it! (just a side note if you know Greek and I know an just eency bit the term Μολon λαβέ in Greek is I believe a perfect future tense with the pre-determined idea that it will generally be a cold day in hell when you get them). I for one will never ever give one more step in my RTKABA, if they want to ban any of my guns they must come take them.

So why do we keep backing down many gun owners in California (the people’s republic of) just turned their guns in. the same in DC, New York, etc... Again *** make them come get them I am sure many of us would help you when it hit the fan.

So I guess it comes down to what’s the point where yall say enough is enough you are not going to take this gun.

Is it your AR/AK
Is it your bolt action hunting rifle
Is it your single shot .22
or is it your .177 air rifle?

This is both a little rant and a little question sorry if yall don't like it, if the mods / admins don't like it they can delete it.

-DR

 

[Werewolf]

Everyone makes choices. Those choices are based upon an internal (conscious or subconscious) cost/benefit analysis. Thus: Individual circumstances will decide the last straw for each and the wide gamut of circumstances will necessarily result in a last straw that varies from the it's been dropped and I'm waiting for them to the you can have them now if you want them.

Personally I haven't really decided what the last straw would be. All I know is that it hasn't been dropped yet.

 

[Gordon Fink]

When the last straw is added, the camel dies. In other words, by then it is too late.

~G. Fink

 

[ScottsGT]

I think the problem is that they are not "Taking" the guns, but banning them to keep future purchases from happening. There has been a lot of banning going on, but no confiscation..........yet......
Until JoeJackbootThug knocks on your door to take your latest whiz bang 80 rd. mag fed bamby blaster, you won't see a "revolution" of sorts.
The antis have been using the "chip away at the boulder until it is a tiny rock" method for years. It is going to take years to rebuild that boulder. First, you have to stop the chipping away.

 

[Deathrider1579]

Didn't they make everyone turn their assault weapons in over in Caly? And the same in DC? I may be wrong; I guess they didn't go door to door but yeah the idea is still there.

-DR

 

[carlrodd]

maybe posts like these are a good idea, so people can start collectively agreeing on what the last straw is. sure it's different for everybody, but it shouldn't be, frankly. if you stand firmly by your right to bear arms, as far as i'm concerned, the last straw point should have been yesterday(figuratively). my stance is this: i'm not handing over anything i have now, and each time i come to own another piece, that one gets added to the list of things i'm not handing over. every piece of ammunition, every accessory etc. and anything short of attempted confiscation, i.e. new bans, restrictions etc., i'll be fighting with my votes, making myself well heard. you shouldn't say you don't know where your limit is. we should all be firmly establishing our limits, even if we cannot all agree on what they should be.

 

[fjolnirsson]

I decided back in '05, that I've obeyed my last stupid new law. As I've stated elsewhere(and on THR, IIRC) I will comply with the laws we have now, but I will go no farther. If the PTB wish to make me a criminal, so be it. After 29 years inCA, I've had a taste of freedom here in Oregon, and I like it. I want more of it.
I refuse to give up my daughter's future freedom on the whim of some politician. I am raising her to be a free woman, in spite of the tyranny of the majority.
Now, will I take the fight to them? No. I will be a good little drone, and remain home with my loved ones, obeying the laws we have now.
As for any new magazine restrictions, or other limitations, forget it. I won't turn anything in, and I won't register anything that I intend to keep.
As for the Real ID, and animal registration? I'm still fighting those. Technically, they qualify as laws we already have, so I'm not sure if I'll obey or not. We still have some time to make up our minds on those. Chances are, I'll ignore them. Depends on just how inconvenient it becomes.
Bit by bit, and with increasing speed, the government is turning honest men into criminals. It makes them easier to govern. All non compliance does is speed up the process a bit. I'm fine with that.

 

[Deathrider1579]

maybe posts like these are a good idea, so people can start collectively agreeing on what the last straw is. sure it's different for everybody, but it shouldn't be, frankly. if you stand firmly by your right to bear arms, as far as i'm concerned, the last straw point should have been yesterday(figuratively). my stance is this: i'm not handing over anything i have now, and each time i come to own another piece, that one gets added to the list of things i'm not handing over. every piece of ammunition, every accessory etc. and anything short of attempted confiscation, i.e. new bans, restrictions etc., i'll be fighting with my votes, making myself well heard. you shouldn't say you don't know where your limit is. we should all be firmly establishing our limits, even if we cannot all agree on what they should be.

+ Well I cant make a number big enough lol

I decided back in '05, that I've obeyed my last stupid new law. As I've stated elsewhere(and on THR, IIRC) I will comply with the laws we have now, but I will go no farther. If the PTB wish to make me a criminal, so be it. After 29 years inCA, I've had a taste of freedom here in Oregon, and I like it. I want more of it.
I refuse to give up my daughter's future freedom on the whim of some politician. I am raising her to be a free woman, in spite of the tyranny of the majority.
Now, will I take the fight to them? No. I will be a good little drone, and remain home with my loved ones, obeying the laws we have now.
As for any new magazine restrictions, or other limitations, forget it. I won't turn anything in, and I won't register anything that I intend to keep.
As for the Real ID, and animal registration? I'm still fighting those. Technically, they qualify as laws we already have, so I'm not sure if I'll obey or not. We still have some time to make up our minds on those. Chances are, I'll ignore them. Depends on just how inconvenient it becomes.
Bit by bit, and with increasing speed, the government is turning honest men into criminals. It makes them easier to govern. All non compliance does is speed up the process a bit. I'm fine with that.

Again +++++ Well said!!

-DR

 

[azredhawk44]

I will probably try as many work-arounds as possible. I will also have multiple weapons caches.

If they serial # ammunition or otherwise impede its production and purchase, I will learn to cast bullets, stockpile primers and powder.

If they ban semiauto rifles, they will have to come and take mine.

If they ban semiauto handguns, I will hide mine. I don't really like mine all that much (I trust revolvers much more), but I would rather bury them in BFE and get them back later on than give them to antis to chop up.

If they ban revolvers/singleshot handguns, they will have to come and take mine. If they ban muzzleloaders, they will have to come and take mine. If they ban bolt-actions, I don't have any. If they ban lever guns, they will have to come and take mine. I just bought 3 model 94 winnies for collectors purposes, but the business end of those will work just fine if needed. If they ban .50BMG's, I don't have one. but I want one.

This is enough. It's gone too far. Alaska and Vermont have the best laws and all the remaining states must change to emulate their laws so all are the same across the US. This includes DC, Chicago, NY and California.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

I read this on an other board, I'll paraphrase b/c I can't remember where I found it:

England never had the pervasive gun culture that we do here in the US. Over the years, the English government slowly made guns harder and harder to own, slowly shrinking the number of people who would be willing to jump through all the hoops just to buy a gun. Now the gun owning population in England has been reduced to a very small minority, and when (not if) the government enacts an outright ban on all guns it will pass with only a whimper from a smell disgruntled group.

Now America has a much larger and more vocal gun owning population than England ever did, but that doesn't mean that the same can't happen to us if we let it.

It starts with, "oh it's just a little license fee" or "it's just a tax stamp", "it's just a 30-day waiting period to prevent crimes of passion". It will end with "we don't need centerfire rifles, only 2% of the population hunts anyway and there is no other leagal reason to own them".

Stay Vigilant

 

[pete f]

If they serial number amm, I have 400 lbs of wheelweight alloy melted down in the garage, I have several large kegs of smokeless. and i have primers by the case.

I can last a long time with official approval. Most all of what i buy for firearms are private ftf sales.

They have no idea what i have and if the they attempted to search my house, well lets just say that would not go very well, and not everything is here, not everything is above ground, in more ways than one. I am not alone in my thinking and quite frankly, I am surprised at the depth of resentment toward our gov;t there is around here. I mean deepseated, bone gnawing anger at the way things are going. If something like confiscation or similar occured, I think the streets would run red, with both sides.

 

[Deathrider1579]

I think the streets would run red, with both sides.

I agree, the prospect of going toe to toe with anyone from our country is nothing but a bloody proposition.

If they try to take my guns I have a moral and ethical charge to defend myself and my guns (there by my freedom) but I have no delusions of surviving such an encounter at least not if they surprise me in my home. Now if I get out to the woods I have a better chance, but things are at best grim.

I should say that I love my country and I am thinking of joining the military -have not yet but it is rattleing arround in my mind-, it would be the sadest of all days if the American people have stand up and demand their freedoms back.

-DR

 

[Oleg Volk]

Avoidance will always be the preferred method of reasonable people. If NY gets bad, move to MT.

However, there's a reason why we've seen relatively little heavy-handed enforcement of gun legislation. Tell me, what happens to cops who drive through the neighborhoods which are most affected by the war on drugs? They get shot at. Why? Because people whose friends and relatives were killed or incarcerated take that war personally. It doesn't make business sense to shoot at distant cop cars.

For most of us, I bet, the straw would be direct harm to self, friends or family. That's when we will see lawsuits by some and guerilla actions by others. In other words, individuals directly responsible for the harm would be hunted down and killed. Most people will not go on a warpath because they want to live for their other kids, parents, for themselves. But the exceptions would become numerous enough if enforcement gets stepped up.

 

[Deathrider1579]

TOTALY HAPPY DANCE TIME!! Oleg looked at & posted on a thread I made (dances arround room makeing co-workers scared)

I think I would go on the war path FOR my kids, wife, self. What is the point of liveing if you are a slave?

I really figure that if anything gets started it will be because of something else other than the 2nd A. Such as that imminient domain thing the Supream Court fouled up. I for one ain't moveing for some stupid mall.


-DR

 

[Rockrivr1]

Last year when Massachusetts started a Bill that would ban all 50 caliber BMGs I went balistic. I was pissed and I vowed that they'd never get mine. I had your same mentality. "Let them come and get it!"

Once I cooled down a bit I actually thought about what that would mean.

They come to my door and demand my gun. I say no, slam the door in the cops face and prepare for the onslaught. The cops bring in rienforcements. They launch tear gas into my house, (I have a gas mask, so I could hold out a while) they break down the door and a firefight breaks out. I get one or two coming in the door and maybe the continue the charge or fall back. Sooner or later they will get me either with another charge or by a sniper who's waiting for me to cross the window. Either way I'm dead. My very large exended family now lives with the fact that their Son, Son in law, nephew, cousin etc was a mental case gun nut.

Hummmmm, not very promising. At worst your dead. Short of that your arrested and may get jail time. How far am I willing to go for my guns.

I don't have an answer yet. But as of right now I'm not at the point in my life where I'm ready to die for them. Not to mention if the above happened, it would be used by the antis as ammunition as to why guns should be banned. It's a lose lose situation.

 

[TallPine]

Well, I'm not planning on ever turning anything in voluntarily ...

(except maybe bullets )

Though at least in MT, I think I will live out my days without seeing confiscation. IMO, the gun-banners are just waiting for us old farts to die off. The trick is to raise up a bunch of new "old farts"

 

[pax]

All Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

IOW, not yet. As Oleg points out, reasonable people always prefer avoidance for as long as avoidance is both possible and reasonable. Nevertheless, there is a line beyond which even reasonable people will say, "No further."

pax

You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence. -- Charles Austin Beard

 

[Deathrider1579]

All Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

IOW, not yet. As Oleg points out, reasonable people always prefer avoidance for as long as avoidance is both possible and reasonable. Nevertheless, there is a line beyond which even reasonable people will say, "No further."

Right, but are we their yet? have we decided "no further" or are we willing to give up more? Rockrivr1 has decided that he is not at that point yet, I have decided that I am at that point I aint giveing up anything. That said I so far have not faced anyone knocking on my door saying "give them up or else" so I cannot know 100% what my reaction will be just as I cannot say 100% say what I will do if some one pulls a knife on my on the street and says "your money or your life". I know what I believe and that is they aint getting anything but bullets from me and those the hard way.

-DR

 

[WillBrayJr]

My last straw has to do with alot.

Being abused and screwed over by my family
Being abused by the school system
Being screwed over by the justice system

Well no more, its time to unleash the Raging Inferno thats been building inside me for two decades.

I moved away so I don't do something stupid. If they come to me, then it's on!!!

 

[carlrodd]

Last year when Massachusetts started a Bill that would ban all 50 caliber BMGs I went balistic. I was pissed and I vowed that they'd never get mine. I had your same mentality. "Let them come and get it!"

Once I cooled down a bit I actually thought about what that would mean.

They come to my door and demand my gun. I say no, slam the door in the cops face and prepare for the onslaught. The cops bring in rienforcements. They launch tear gas into my house, (I have a gas mask, so I could hold out a while) they break down the door and a firefight breaks out. I get one or two coming in the door and maybe the continue the charge or fall back. Sooner or later they will get me either with another charge or by a sniper who's waiting for me to cross the window. Either way I'm dead. My very large exended family now lives with the fact that their Son, Son in law, nephew, cousin etc was a mental case gun nut.

Hummmmm, not very promising. At worst your dead. Short of that your arrested and may get jail time. How far am I willing to go for my guns.

I don't have an answer yet. But as of right now I'm not at the point in my life where I'm ready to die for them. Not to mention if the above happened, it would be used by the antis as ammunition as to why guns should be banned. It's a lose lose situation.

you wouldn't or shouldn't be dying for 'guns' anyway. you should be ready to lay down your life for a WAY of life. the right to bear arms is only a part of it. but it is a litmus test. if our govt. sees fit to bring about some sort of wholesale ban on ownership of firearms, you can be sure that you have reached the point of no return, and that other, equally important liberties are sure to quickly be brought under the hatchet...quickly. it would be like the loudest alarm. and quite frankly, i hope it doesn't happen incrementally, because then there would be no chance of preserving our nation.

 

[Oleg Volk]

One other note. The war may be on already, we just don't see every skirmish. At this time, it is the war of ideas, influence and dibs on educating the kids.

Home schooling was a stretegic move to negate the public school brainwashing.

1986 reversal of mail order ban was a big victory.

Even with regulations, CCW in most states is a victory.


We can do a lot towards victory that doesn't involve catching individual enemies and killing them with prejudice reserved for gutterscum. Most of the abuses we suffer are institutional and would continue despite elimination of a few hominids employed by those institutions. I don't think we will see a lear defeat or vistory, but we do and will continue to see a trend in our favor.

 

[loumarch]

I've read some excellent posts on this subject! One point that hasn't been made is the fact that most of us have purchased our guns, which means, in most cases, we worked for the money we used to purchase these guns.

Would you let someone come into your home and take your TV or furniture? Why would anyone even consider handing over ANYTHING you bought legally? I work 80 hour weeks and if I want a new gun I go buy it. Some of my guns represent 40 or more hours of labor. Don't even think about taking them, they won't be handed over like a sheeple. Will I resist? I don't know. If I think it will come to that I'll probably just relocate them or myself. We, as responsible gun owners, should not allow the authorities to enact any law that could lead to confiscation. Join the NRA and donate some money to NRA-ILA to keep our cause in the forefront of lawmakers. We need to concentrate on the issues and not the "what-ifs". We need to raise our children to be familiar with, and proficient in, the use of guns. We need to push for gun safety education in all elementary schools. We ALL need to get involved!

 

[carlrodd]

I've read some excellent posts on this subject! One point that hasn't been made is the fact that most of us have purchased our guns, which means, in most cases, we worked for the money we used to purchase these guns.

Would you let someone come into your home and take your TV or furniture? Why would anyone even consider handing over ANYTHING you bought legally? I work 80 hour weeks and if I want a new gun I go buy it. Some of my guns represent 40 or more hours of labor. Don't even think about taking them, they won't be handed over like a sheeple. Will I resist? I don't know. If I think it will come to that I'll probably just relocate them or myself. We, as responsible gun owners, should not allow the authorities to enact any law that could lead to confiscation. Join the NRA and donate some money to NRA-ILA to keep our cause in the forefront of lawmakers. We need to concentrate on the issues and not the "what-ifs". We need to raise our children to be familiar with, and proficient in, the use of guns. We need to push for gun safety education in all elementary schools. We ALL need to get involved!

here, here! +1, but if it all falls apart rather quickly, you're welcome to scoot on down to northern delaware and join like minds.

 

[carlrodd]

The rest of the world is already anti-gun. The few nations that are not would quickly knuckle under to UN pressure on the matter, once the USA falls. Also, how many other countries make and sell decent guns and/or ammo/reloading components/tools? In a lot of countries, lead is very hard to get-expensive, ditto brass-primers-powder. So even reloader-caster types will be hard up for practice-ammo. I suggest that everyone attain master levels of skill, right now, while they can do so. I know many A-class shottists who hardly ever practice anymore, but they can always post A-class scores, anytime that they wish to do so.

nowhere! i love my home and i'll dig in.

 

[Oleg Volk]

So, what will you do this month to reinforce the last line of RKBA trenches?