What is your last straw?

[SpiderJohn]

Interesting thread, indeed.

My concern here is the overiding theme is negative. We can make changes to the system as long as the system still works. We just have to play the game.

Gun grabbers turn the message into something positive, by making the gun the "bad guy" and claiming it is for the children. People buy that, we know it is unadulterated crap, but people buy into the positve aspects of the message. How effective can we be when we cry that the "for the children" line is crap? We get put on the defensive and then have to fight our way out of a hole.

Look at the Democratic Party right now. In a state of dissarray, they stand in line to whine about this and that, who is in office, who is nominated and such. It doesn't appear that anyone is listening. Bush is still in office; Alito is about to become the next Supreme Court Justice. Nobody listens to a negative message.

The big networks moan about their ratings dwindling. Who is going to start watching them again because they whine? Not one single person.

Look at some of the most successful manipulators of societies. Most all had a message of hope. Would Churchill been so successful in ralleying a nation, and getting other nations to join the fight, had he been a whiner? Ever wonder why our very own nation dumped Carter for Regan (besides the fact the man is an idiot, and has zero understanding of foriegn policy)? We as a nation, threw out a man spewing messages about comprimise for peace, to replace him with a man who many were afraid would start the next world war. It was Regan's message, plain and simple. Carter was on his heels defending himself even before the conventions. I make it too simple, but think about it. Regan offered solutions on our terms; Carter was willing to give away the farm (or the canal) for peace.

If we as the "gun culture" are going to effect changes in the hearts and minds of others, we need a positive message to do it. Anything less is whining.

Finding ways to communicate a postive message, one person at a time, and in groups is the only way to win this. Look at Oleg's posters. The ones that have a positive message have more impact. The most influential poster Oleg has done in my opinion is an old one.


This poster says, "without a gun, I cannot defend myself"

Imagine this poster reversed. The yellow Star of David is on the left. It is now a postive message leaving the final impression one of strength.
Now this poster says, "With my Gun, I will take care of myself, and others".

Which message do you want to hear?

People look for leaders. Whiners don't lead.

I don't know much, but I know that I will listen to a man with vision, a lot longer than someone bemoaning the current state of affairs.

Edit: Some day I am going to learn to spell, it just ain't gonna be today.

 

[sm]

Straw

Idioms:
-
Final Last Straw-
The final annoyance or setback, which even though minor makes one lose patience

Straw in the wind-
A slight hint of something to come.


Tyranny
dominance through threat of punishment and violence

My last straw has already been laid.

I was a child and learned the definition of Reality, later I learned the dictionary definition of Reality.

In reading what I choose to share about my life, one may read of childhood, teenage, young adult, or now middle age life experiences. One only reads what I share. The more astute readers read between the lines. Others perceive a “normal” childhood” – whatever the hell “normal” is supposed to mean. Others find fault, speak negative, or disagree.

Ask me if I care.

I attempt to hide behind humor and stories some of my life's lessons. I have also fired family, friends and / or walked away from many things in my life - including Antis, and Pro-Gunners alike.

Ask me if I care.

Pro-Gunner's you ask? Damn Straight I have and I will continue to. These are the one's that mis-use my defintion of Pro-Gun. They have a lot of damn gall breathing my air as they do this too!

Then again my definition of Strategy and Tactics differs from many as well.

It is said one leads by example and one is better judged by deeds than words.

So when folks started trying to buy skill and targets, thinking that buying a certain gun by mere ownership gave them some kind of ...'something' I walked off. When I competed heavily and some spoke how "thier guns" were "better" than someone else's...
...or "nobody" has a need for a "such and such".

I not only walked away, I burned any and all Score cards and any related "Sanctioned" pieces of paper. I was not alone. There was many of us, some well known, many only known in certain circles. Granted many felt as I did, only until I used my Zippo to burn my cards and light trash with these did many follow. I have refused to set foot on many Public Ranges, Some Private Ranges, These "gun owners" sicken me. I refuse to recognize them or be associated with them.

Always been a Rebel for a reason. I do things some do not understand, nor agree with. They have a right to disagree with me. I have a right to be right.

If one is in MY circle of trusted folks there is a bond. If not, they are not worth spit to me. I got better things to do , folks I prefer to be with , folks I want to pass forward to. My role was defined a long time ago. I do this role and I am damn good at it. Then I send them to others better able to train, instruct in whatever role they are to do in their lives.

Who is John Galt?


Ask anyone who has been wronged and their Freedoms Challenged, I assure you, like me, the straw has been broken for them, and they will never give up fighting for what they believe in.

We do not care about other folks think; we damn sure do not care about definitions offered by societal norms, cultures, and mores. We do not care about a Government’s definition, and to be honest, I personally do not listen to those in others areas; areas if mentioned would cause a flame war on this forum. Oleg’s Forum and I will abide by the rules.

I am not as seasoned as many, such as Art. Art reminds me of some Mentors & Elders I had. Perhaps when Art was my age he was more seasoned than I now - or I will ever be. Perhaps someday I too will enter that other dimension , not one that comes from age, comes from life experiences, educating the mind, and maybe better understanding that one has within themselves so much more power, just the learning how to use such power takes some time to figure out. I am still learning, I always will be.

If one ever announces they "have arrived" - they just announced how immature they really are.

I will not be controlled; I made that decision at a very young age. Criminals want control, be it mugger, a thief, or government.

Definitions…well, one needs to consider the source of definitions. Who is the Criminal? The one whom takes away the guns of victims of natural disaster, or one whom takes guns and ammo to those denied?

Is it politicians who enact laws denying one the right to defend themselves where they live, work, travel in daily affairs, or the ones who have means to protect themselves anyway, or any whom may have assisted?

I remember as a kid seeing the aftermath of a tornado. The small shed was nowhere to be found – except one small scrap of lumber. In that scrap a piece of straw had pierced it. I was awed. I could hold that scrap sideways and see this straw; I could bend the straw on either side of the wood.

“If the wind is strong enough, the weak can pierce the strong”. Words to this effect were spoken by a Mentor & Elder; quite a few of us were handling this scrap of wood pierced by straw.

Growing up poor has advantages:
A number two pencil can write a letter just as well as a fountain pen. Soda Bottles brought three cents a piece and one soda bottle was the value of a postage stamp then.

Learning the firearm safety rules and correct basic fundamentals of shooting were passed on to me. When as a kid the front door was brick-batted in, I, being the eldest, used a .22 revolver to stop an immediate threat. The gun was mine; it was always loaded, always accessible to me.
Sure the sibs were raised with firearm safety and even so, being responsible, my gun was accessible to me – not to them – one was an infant, others very young.

My perception is too many folks focus on what is not important, and do not focus on what is. I have no problem with folks having nice firearms, or knives. I do think many feel these give those special powers or skill by pure ownership. Ask me how well a yellow handled Case Trapper rips open a belly to fend off a person with a gun, and another with a pipe. Another lesson learned first hand as a teenager, it is the intent of the user and not the tool. It is the training of brain and skills that makes a tool effective – not the tool itself.

Mentors & Elders shared one would be wise to have set back a number of single shot .22 rifles, shotguns and medium frame revolvers. Have plenty of .22 cartridges, and the means to reload shotgun and .38spl ammo. This was in conjunction with whetstones, Case, Shrade knives, matches, canned goods, water…

...some better off added lever action rifles, like Model 94s or Model 70s in '06, .22 handguns. Yeah you can bet some 1911s, BHPs were in the mix.

We broke things down to simple. We broke things down to what if guns were banned, types of actions banned, ammo banned, the need for reliable firearms , dependency on magazines, getting parts...

...oh we had druthers, breaking it down simple the single shot .22 rifles, and shotguns were pretty darn simple , proven, reliable, and one could "set back" quite a few for the monies spent for used ones...

A stamp was 3 cents back then, a roll of 100 was a lot of money. Still Mentors & Elders bought stamps and fought to Preserve Freedoms. For them the last straw had been laid as well. Gas was seventeen cents to twenty-one cents a gallon. I taped three nickels to a postcard to get my very own bottle of Hoppe’s Number 9 and I was very excited when the Postman delivered it. Ruger MKI came in the mail for a Mentor, he had sent a postcard in from the back of Field & Stream, when the Postman came he gave the man $24.95 from the cookie jar. Best recall, he had saved for six months for that gun.

Interesting thing is, folks did not have credit cards, and they “might” sign a tab at the local grocery store and pay it off on Fridays. I used to stop by and pick up milk, bread and such on the way home from school, to save mom some time and trouble.

Mentors & Elders and my kind used lay-a-way. Preservation of Freedoms was always on our minds. Sure a nice new shiny gun , holster would be nice…then again a good used firearm, fixing up holster by re-sewing it allowed monies for $1 worth of gas to attend a meeting to Preserve Freedoms, or to free up monies to buy stamps, ink and paper to Preserve Freedoms.

I know first hand folks were not disappointed in getting single shot .22 rifles, or single shot shotguns, and ammo when given. Be it a kid learning to shoot, a domestic violence situation, or victim of natural disaster – where having a firearm was in one’s best interest. Freedom means Freedom. Preserving means Preserving. . Just like one cannot buy skill and targets one cannot buy Freedoms by the firearms they own.

These firearms symbolize a LOT, these are important. Training one's self in mind, body and spirit in the responsible use and ownership of firearms - Then again so is spending some of that time and money to Preserve the Freedoms for which they symbolize.

True example:

The lady gets past the injury and suffering, she gets some money finally saved up. Instead of giving back a $30 pawn shop bought single shot 20 gauge shotgun, I had “loaned” her, she joins a gun rights organization. She takes a training class and learns about firearms. She has to use the range’s guns, and shoots the reloads the range reloads. She sells off a wedding ring no longer needed. That money was going to pay for lawyer fees; lawyer did Pro-Bono, only court fees were incurred. She is upset about this - then our Moral Law is shared with her.

She is finally able to a good used police trade in and a used holster from out of a used holster bin. Holster gets re-sewn. She sells furniture which she realizes has bad memories and gets a CCW. Being a bit short the lawyer and I do a “lay-a-way” if you will.

She offers to return the ‘borrowed” shotgun. I ask “what shotgun?”

Here is how it works in my book, how this played out. Lady get back on her feet, she is upset because her “lay-a-way” somehow has no balance left.

When the next person with a small child goes thru “bad stuff happens to good folks” – this lady steps up -seems a certain shotgun was again “borrowed”, monies to get thru a court deal, monies to join a gun rights organization, training, a used police trade in, holster…

No more straws.

More Passing Forward, the cycle cannot ever be broken.

There are no straws for some of us that live by our definition of the Moral Law.

May I suggest:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34976&highlight=Civil+Disobedience

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/Metal_and_Wood.html


Steve

 

[beaucoup ammo]

SM

Amen. Live and let live..pretty simple equation. Thought provoking post..as was, hope name is correct, Mr. Kloss, from TFL Archives (2000). Thanks for your offering and the reference.

Take Care

 

[Mad Bodhi]

If anything were to happen to my family, I'd love to run over a couple select politicians with a Toyota Prius, the icon of political correctness. Until then, I have too much to lose.

Perhaps you should read http://www.ussyorktown.com/yorktown/foundingfathers.htm
and see what price our Founding Fathers paid for our freedom before you say you have too much to lose.

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”-Ronald Reagan

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I Like That Idea

The idea of going to Washington, D.C., fully armed, locked and loaded, and marching I like. I remember watching the Pro-Life rally on some shows recently. There were tons of people though, and the media did not cover it to any great extent. (I'm not trying to bring up pro-life pro-choice for argument, just using an example).

Look, this would be great if it weren't for the fact that the media is against us!

Look, in the U.S.A. we are winning this battle at the moment. There are dangers to our civil liberties, just look at Patriot Act, and you can see that. But, on guns, we have an assault weapons ban ending, ccw in all but a few states, and more people getting into it than ever.

But, if there were some sort of paradigm shift, we would want to follow the idea of soap box, ballot box, jury box, and finally cartridge box.

A march on Washington would be the 1st thing we would want to do. (And I suggest this if we had an f'd up Kali style awb)

Not even necessarily armed, but many of us. Many, many of us. The media wouldn't give us our just due in all likelihood, but we would be redressing our grievances, and exercising freedom of speech.

After that, we would want to get more extreme. But, guns a blazin' from the start is not the way.

Even once it would be at that point, it would be a dirty war anyway. Assassinations, raids, etc. It wouldn't be one guy w/ an AK in his house holding off against SWAT. It would be guys carrying out the plot of UC and Enemies Foreign&Domestic, then fedgoons doing same in turn on us.

Uhhh... I'm tired... go home, study, clean guns, go to bed.....

 

[Meplat]

Meplat,



Could you elaborate a little?

Sure can. Sure don't want to, but being a man sometimes means that kinda thing.

Mispoke....mistyped...stuck my foot in my keyboard on this one. Has been several years since I moved from Alaska, kinda try to keep up a bit with what's going on there (one of the most enjoyable places I've ever lived)...several years back, they were trying to get some legislation banning semi-auto pistols there. Much to my relief, I must admit to being full of hookie on it's passage (relief, but embarassment).

Don't worry about the wet noodles, I've already flagellated myself enough. :banghead:

 

[Meplat]

My Son, who is on the local police department, came to my house to get my guns, just doing his job.

Raised a son who isn't afraid to take a stand for what he believes even if it means losing his job. He recently did just that over his right to attend worship services. Told his employer before being hired that he could not work during worhship hours, employer said "fine" hired him and scheduled him to work then anyway. Boy was honest with them up front, was honest when he told them the job was not nearly as important as his beliefs. Bit proud of that boy, I am. Gave a notice. They decided on the last day of his notice they would indeed, honor his beliefs. Had they not? He'd have found employment elsewhere.

Would he ever show up to enforce a law that was illegal because it violated a 230 year old document that governs ALL laws? I don't think so.

He damn sure wouldn't show up at Dad's house for that cause. Wouldn't shoot him, no, but would still turn his little butt over my knee, nevermind the fact that he's bigger than me now.

What do I do? Do I kill my son for my beliefs? Do I turn in my weapons? Do I fight for my rights?

Dunno about now. Best thing to do is to raise your kids with the proper belief system to begin with.

When the time comes for you to turn in your guns, it may not be as easy as you think to fight for your principles. Like someone said, when the last straw falls, the camel dies. Someone else said, he wanted to live to be at least 40. From where I sit here at 56, 40 is a baby. You won't want to die then either.

42 is a toddler then. That is the age when I died on the OR table eight times. 56? Not highly likely for me. Then again, I'm more stubborn than most people I know, so maybe.

Fight every day. Write letters. Tell people you love to shoot. Invite them along. Support local gun related businesses. Sometimes pay a little more for a box of shells so a local gunshop stays in business instead of closing and shopping at Wal-Mart. Vote. Tell your politicians that you vote, tell them why, and what you want. For every two or three posts you make on these boards, write a short note to your congressman or senator. Write to your local and state reps, write to your local newspapers and radio and TV shows.

All very good advice. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to do you a world of good when your "permit" to keep your God given rights expired.

 

[Meplat]

Would you kindly explain what you're trying to convey?

Be glad to. Just as soon as I get my foot disentangled from my keyboard. Please see post to fjolnirsson.

<sigh>

Sometimes a man's just got to admit he mispoke and take his swats.

 

[Meplat]

..but the idea of house to house confiscation of firearms goes so far against the grain of American mind set.. this scenario is on my back burner for the present.

Take Care

"If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn in your guns' I would have" - Diane Feinstein


"Screw you Diane Feinstein!" - Mr. and Mrs. America.

Lordy, I love having a son who screen prints on the side.

That mentality isn't THAT far off. Picture Sylvester Stallone (paragon of intelligence that he is) lounging in England two years ago calling for a house to house confiscation party.

 

[Meplat]

You can own rifles and hanguns in dc as far as I'm aware. You just can't carry them.

Might want to check this site out. http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=DC

You can own 'em...IF you get permission (not likely), you can't buy, sell or transport handguns, and all firearms must remain disassembled, even in your own home. Bit draconian for my tastes.