Y'all have me worried now

[Papakeith]

As a new loader, I am reading just about anything I can in regard to loading. In the two or three weeks that I've been at it, I've created over 600 rounds, and all but one went bang as intended.
The one that didn't go bang, was a shell that never got a new primer. I don't really know how that happened, but I've rearranged my bench to ensure it never happens again.

So far I've only used Hodgdon's Titegroup powder, and two different bullet types (speer 185 JSWC, and West Coast 230gr RN plated). I've seated both bullets to an overall cartridge length of 1.270. The powder has been used from 3.7-4.8 gr.

What I'm concerned about is talk about detonation, which powder to use, etc. I'm using the recommended loads, and lengths for these bullets, but I'm sure that by using 4.8gr or less is leaving a good amount of air space in the cartridge. Is this a cause for concern? Should I be switching to a different powder to ensure that I am filling the cartridge?

 

[stans]

Ah, the mysterious detonation of reloaded rounds. Many of these Kaboom's come from Glocks, namely those chambered in 40 S&W. Glocks have very little support for the web of the case and the 40 seems to be the worst of all. 40 Glock brass usually shows a swollen area where the case support is lacking and this creates a weak area in the case. Then it gets reloaded a time or two and the weak spot ruptures. Then the victims cries that the powder detonated when in reality it was a failure of the brass.

Then there are the stories of small charges of fast burning powders (Bullseye and W-231) literally exploding and blowing up guns. Powder, bullet, and brass manufacturers have tried and tried to duplicate this phenomenon. The conclusions always come back that fast burning powder does not detonate and the cause of the kaboom was a double or triple charge of powder. With small charges of fast burning powder in large cases such as 38 Special or 45 ACP, a double charge can easily go unnoticed during reloading. The solution here is to pay close attention to your reloading practices.

With the slow burning H-110 or it's twin W-296, detonation can occur with charges below 5-10% of the maximum charge. This powder requires the case to be full or nearly full with very little air space remaining. If this powder is loosely spread about in the case, it burns erratically and sometimes not at all.

 

[HSMITH]

Stay within the published data and you will be fine.

 

[Cortland]

Cowboy Action shooters regularly load those big pistol cases (45 colt, 44-40, etc.) with extremely light loads. Think 2.5 grains of Clays in a .38 special case--tons of air space, but their guns aren't blowing up...

I'm no expert on this "detonation" phenomenon, but the only concern I've ever seen manifest itself with respect to light loads is bullets lodged in the bore.

 

[kimbernut]

Unusual detonations

PapaKeith, As per HSMITH stay within published guidelines and you should be fine.Do not EVER!!! get in a hurry. Always - SAFETY FIRST. There is no such thing as being too careful.Make it a point that the last procedure before the bullet is set on the case is to examine all cases side by side in the tray and note that they all look the same . I'll check weigh 5% minimum of the cases-so far this has proven unnecessary but to me it's necessary.It's my" err on the side of safety." From everything I have read you have chosen a powder that is relatively uneffected by its position in the case. Most of my pistol reloading has been with Bullseye and Unique and some with W-231 and I've never had a problem.

 

[tc300mag1]

Stay within the published guidelines as all ready said and make sure there credible sources i dont use anything i can find in teh hard manuals even though they can be wrong also.. i dont really trust the online sites ..Some do but i dont want to blow up one of my guns.

 

[mtnbkr]

The fast powder detonation legend came from people making 38special target loads with full wadcutters. They were using small powder charges, but what was learned later is that if you seat wadcutters too deep, pressure spikes. IOW, a 2.7g charge of Bullseye would generate pressures high enough to break a standard 38special revolver. IIRC, you only had to seat it 1/8" or so too deep to do this.

I've used Bullseye in charges as low as .5 grain, yes half a grain, for "no hearing protection" plinking out of a 2" snubbie (OOO buckshot ball). The only problem I had was metering.

Chris

 

[P95Carry]

I think actually - if we want to give any credence to the ''detonation'' deal .. it is way more important with low powder charges in rifles .. cast bullet use is one major example. I treat it as a ''possible'', simply cos I cannot prove 100% ''it can't happen''.

Then there are those who make up space with dacron ... but even there, stories are around that this can/has caused a ring bulge.

Whatever ... I think with pistol rounds very little to worry about but .. bottleneck cases ........ maybe worth being cognisant of what others have said, even if hard to prove.

 

[Papakeith]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll keep it in the back of my mind.

I was worried about how much trouble can I get in trying to load on the lighter side.

My goal at present really should just be loading good repetative rounds. I guess can play later once I've got some loading time under my belt.

 

[HankB]

Detonation with small loads of fast pistol powders is, as far as extensive research by powder companies and the NRA can determine, a myth. Microscopic examination of pieces of "detonated" guns showed fractures characteristic of normal overpressures, not indicative of a "detonation." These overpressures most likely resulted from a combination of a double or triple charge plus a deeply seated bullet.

Anomalous pressures can show up in rifles with lower than normal charges of slow burning powder, almost invariably in bottleneck cases. And lengthy tumbling of loaded ammo with airspace inside the case will allegedly allow the powder inside to be ground up more finely, changing the burning characteristics. (I say "allegedly" on this last as I've not seen any credible evidence, I've only heard rumors.)

If you're sticking to data published in a reputable manual, you should be just fine.

 

[g56]

One big tip in reference to your missed primer, when loading on a single stage press, after you have primed the cases put them in a loading block, primer side up, when finished priming, look at the bottoms of the cases to make sure they all have a primer and the primer is seated properly, and I always run my fingertip across the primer to check for protuding primers.

When ready to charge the cases, take the case out of the block, charge it, and put it in the block right side up, when finished charging, take a flashlight and look at each cartridge to make sure it has a powder charge, and nothing looks out of place, then proceed from there...

 

[caz223]

I have a progressive, and I flip my ammo in an old blazer tray, the ones you get when you buy blazer .45 acp ammo.
I load them 50 in a tray just like you would get them out of the box, of course.
Anyway, I inspect them all for primer seating, then put another blazer tray over them and shake/wiggle the tray a little bit, flip it over, and take off the top tray, ammo is now in the other tray bullets up.
Then I inspect for improper seating/setback.
If any are noticeable shorter or longer I take them out and measure them with a calipers to make sure they're in spec.
Then I place the same blazer tray over them (Kinda like a sandwich) and carefully dump them, 2 trays per baggie to count out 100 per baggie, so I know how much ammo I actually have in stock.
Works well for me.

 

[Rico567]

The tagline to the last post makes a good point:

"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

I have an alternative view:

"Live your life as if it were very long."

One thing that seems to be missing from this thread is that reloading (and I've been doing it for nearly 40 years) takes 100% concentration, 100% of the time. Many leisure pursuits can be done quite well with less, but NOT RELOADING.

I'm seeing a lot of people on various boards who indicate by their comments that they're new to reloading, and very eager to produce their own ammo- this is great. I have found reloading to be one of the most rewarding activities I've engaged in, BUT. (There's always a BUT.)

1) It's very easy and relatively inexpensive to get into reloading.

2) There's a tendency for human beings (I won't profile by saying MEN) to read the instruction manual only as a last resort. (When it comes to a new computer, it's almost a point of honor with me to leave the documentation completely undisturbed until I have a problem or question.)

3) My experience with all reloading equipment and component manufacturers has uniformly been the best, but nevertheless they are in the business of selling a product, not scaring people off, so their publications tend to be, shall we say, a bit "friendlier" than they ought to be.

Based on my own experiences, I offer the following; take them as advice (which is always worth what it costs), or caveats, just as you like:

1) When you start reloading, get a mainstream commercial reloadingn handbook (Speer, Hornady, Lee, etc.), READ IT, and follow it religiously until you feel comfortable with all aspects of reloading.

2) Make notes and document every load you make. A 3x5 card file is ideal for this. Also be sure you label every container of ammo you produce: Date, powder, primer, bullet, case. Very particular people may also document the number of times a lot of cases has been reloaded, although I think this is more common for rifle shooters than for pistol ammo.

3) When you set up to reload, no matter how many times you've done a particular loading, check and double-check your powder charge, the primers and bullets you're using, and the settings of your press/dies.

4) Get some experience with a single-stage press (or operate your progressive one round through at a time) for a while before you jump into full progressive reloading.

5) Keep your reloading storage/bench well organized.

6) Never have more than one kind or large quantities primers and/or powder on your bench at one time.

7) Inspect all cases you're planning on using for reloading.

8) All finished ammo should not only be inspected, but should be run through a Max. Cartridge Gauge. Dillon, Midway, and others sell these for under 10 bucks and they are very important; you may also substitute the chamber of your gun for this procedure, but it's far less convenient and obvious safety considerations must also be followed.

9) Don't even think about watching TV when reloading, and you should even think seriously about listening to music. (Obviously, you can inspect or wipe cases/ammo, this kind of activity, but common sense dictates that you're asking for trouble the more you distract yourself).

10) Have fun! (Which you will.)

 

[caz223]

I personally don't bother with #8, because I'm just making range ammo, I use a Lee factory crimp die, which post-sizes, and I do random checks for chambering, using the tightest barrel I have.
Haven't found one out-of-spec yet, since I switched to a lee factory crimp die.
Also, since I load on a progressive, and have all the complete deluxe conversion kits for every caliber I happen to load, and only load one type and style of bullet in each, I never have to make any adjustments.
There's still the human element.
Checking, double checking, and inspecting are still, and will always be, parts of the process.
QC should take as long as case prep, or the actual loading procedure.
Otherwise, I agree 1000%

 

[Papakeith]

Thanks again for all of the advise. It is appreciated.

When I first got my press, a Lee Pro 1000, I made many, many dummy rounds (no primer/no powder) I did this to familiarize myself with the press, and to check for COL. I would then measure length, and run the cartridge through a max cartridge gauge. Once I was satisfied with that I took cases with the old primer still in it, and would insert them in the charging station to check the charge that the auto disk system was dropping.
After checking this, and being satisfied with the consistancy of the drop, I set myself up with primers and bullets and made one round at a time for the first 30 rounds. Basically using the progressive as a single stage.

I mader 10 each of three different loads. They were documented in my Lymann handbook, and labeled as to what they were.

The next session with the press I decided to try it as a full progressive. I kept a case with the old primer next to the press that still had it's old primer to periodically check the primer drop. Apparently, I lost my concentration, and I put it into the press and finished it.

Since then, I now have a brightly striped case that is used for this purpose. It is located on shelf away from the press. It gets used, and then returned to the shelf.