I'm done with Lee, what do you suggest.

Johnhenry,
Don't get too discouraged. More than any other section on THR, Handloading and Reloading is generally filled with folks who want to fix your problem, rather than just point to the direction you ask. With reloading, if things aren't working, it is usually not the equipment at fault...especially if you are loading single stage. Also, picking on a reloader's equipment brand is kinda like calling his girlfriend fat...whether it's true or not, there's gonna be a fight.

So I'm going to try and help a little too. I'll try to work in suggestions for the problems you present.

Quick-change bushings are convenient. They are neither as accurate or as durable as screwing the die in every time. This goes for every brand I have messed with. If you don't mind the extra work, skip the quick change bushings. I use quick change on my progressives because the effort is not worth the benefit for me. Other folks go the other way.

Decapped primers go everywhere, on Lee more than any other brand. Inevitably, there is a fix for just about every press that fixes this. I am not familiar with the C Press. If you ask, somebody has probably crossed that bridge and can help.

I resize 30-06 on the hand press, the weakest press Lee makes. If it breaks (which I have broken one) it is 99% of the time due to not enough lube or inefficient lube. The most important factor in successfully sizing rifle cases is the lube. If it takes a lot of effort, change lube. A stronger press will not break with bad lube, but you will chew up some brass. And it will still break whatever the press is attached to.

The Round-tray RCBS priming tool that uses shell holders is awesome. I am on the same tool and tray after many years. You do need to keep the tool lubed or it starts having issues.

For legal reasons, Lee does not generate (or verify) load data. They use published load data from powder and bullet manufacturers. They just copy it down, right, wrong, or messed up. Once you get several manuals you will figure out where each load came from.

For pistol loading, I like and use Lee dies. For rifle dies I use RCBS plus the Lee FCD. The lee carbide pistol dies just seem to work better for me, and I get more consistent results from the RCBS. Buy extra decapping pins for the RCBS rifle dies. They are 1/3rd as strong as the Lee, and they do not slide up when they jam like the Lees do. They just break. But they are inexpensive and easy to change. For the most part, dies are dies. Folks will have a preference, but one brand is not usually substantially different from another.

And once again, don't take it personal. If you have a problem, come on here and say what you are using, how you are using it, and what happened. I guarantee we will get your problem fixed. If there is a problem with a particular product, even the fanboys of that product will admit a defect...and give you a workaround.

I would not get upset about the responses. I have been on both sides of this with lee stuff. On the one hand, I have owned and reloaded on a pro1000 for years with nothing but great success. When I hear people trashing on them I just don't get it. On the other side, I bought a loadmaster and it was nothing but trouble. I had the same responses you were having here about not being patient, setting it up incorrectly or otherwise doing something that just made it my fault. It seems to be the nature of they hobby; either something works for you, or it doesn't.

I would steer you towards Dillon as others have. While I still reload exclusively on the pro1000, I have been doing hours of research on upgrading to a 5 stage press and Dillon is going to be where I go when I have the $ saved up.

In reality I asked what worked well other than Lee

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I think (read, "I THINK", this isn't a statement of fact) that many are taking this as a statement that Lee equipment doesn't work. I also think that some folks are honestly concerned that you may keep having problems with whatever other brand you choose and they're trying to be helpful.

The only thing I would add other than that, is you mentioned "sending back" or words to that effect. I've broken the collet that holds the decapping pin on a Lee sizing die and I only had to take a picture of it and submit it through their website and they had a new one in the mail to me the following day. I only throw this out in case you still use and/or break some Lee equipment in case you weren't familiar with this possibility.

Another vote for RCBS. I have been reloading with the same set of dies for the last 10 years. I learned from my older brother who has used RCBS dies for 40-50 years. RCBS service is great too, but only used them once. Unlike another poster, I am not mechanically skilled so I have to count on the wisdom of others and the quality of the product. RCBS meets that criteria.

JohnhenrySTL said:

My last 4 die sets that I have purchased have all failed to complete 500 rounds before needing to be sent back to Lee. Specifically their resizing dies are not worth owning. I have had to send in priming tools, broken presses and this would have been my fourth die. I have their adress memorized. I also believe some of their recipes would blow a gun up. And believe me, they arrogantly defend their contradictory data. My arms are shaking from trying to thread down a decapper. I want to load and shoot. I'm tired of the headaches and the lines at the post office.

Having a background with Lee equipment, what dies do you suggest I move to? I'm strongly considering a redding T7 press. I do like mixing 2 single stage presses for quick bulk loading.

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Let me get this out of the way first:

I gave up my RCBS RockChucker for two Lee Pro-1000 presses for their greater output (I kept the RC, though). I was frustrated with the Pro-1000s. Never got used to monitoring multiple simultaneous operations. I did a lot of research and found a turret press that met my needs. Unarguably the best 4-station auto-advancing turret press in current production. The Lee Classic Turret.

With that out of the way, here is my advice.

If I were dissatisfied with my current press and eschewed all things Lee, I would go Forster Co-Ax. Die changes are quick, their shell holder is universal and their spent primer handling is superior to Lee's and worlds better than anyone else's that I know of. (Note: Lee's spent primer handling on some of their presses is dismal, but on the Classic Turret and Classic Cast second only to Forster.)

More than that (comparing the Forster to the Redding Boss, T-7, Lymans offerings, RCBS and Hornady) I cannot say without knowing what chamberings you will be loading and your goals for that ammunition. Share with us, please.

Lost Sheep

Well, my bench is a mix of colors. I have everything except blue. The only brand I would sat to flat out avoid is lyman, but that's neither here nor there. Lee makes cheap products. That doesn't mean they are poor quality. What that means to me is that if you screw something up and they break then you get to buy more. Rcbs is a wonderful company as far as strong presses go, and even better about warranty but I believe their die quality to be about the same as lee. They charge more though so they can afford to dig into higher profits to keep you happy. I don't care for hornady for the simple fact that you have to shell out cash for the "free" bullets that come with the dies...if they were free they would be in the box at the store...

On presses, I dislike Lee because of their lower end stuff. The c frame and even o frame challenger press particularly suck. A little side to side motion and the relatively thin cast aluminum breaks under pressure. Their similar presses made of cast iron are very serviceable presses though which I can find no fault with.

Now, every manufacturers press moves around under pressure, so if your going high pressure on something I understand breakage. Nothing about reloading should require that much pressure though. If your flexing a press frame to a breaking point you have something wrong. Dies improperly adjusted most likely. As mentioned before we are here to help, we just need to know how.

I don't know what kind of issues you are having with data. But I've not yet come across any published data, that if used as published, with like components as published, that didn't function acceptably.

I have used published data, some from Lee, Speer, Hodgdon, Sierra, Hornady, IMR, Winchester, Alliant, so on, and so forth. None, not even data that dates back 40 years or more has ever caused a problem for me with pressures. There's a particular part of picking reloading data, that actually involves properly matching bullet types and profiles, with the intended data. Sometimes this has a minimal impact on resulting pressures, other times it can have a significant impact. But in all honesty, and IMPE, just head stamps alone can drive pressures up / down dramatically, regardless of which data is used.

As for dies and general reloading tools, I don't have a huge problem with Lee handgun dies, though I insist on RCBS dies for all bottle neck reloading. I've never broke an RCBS die, I have however broke a Lee carbide resizing ring. And although I feel it was 100% my fault, it still stands that RCBS has never failed me. If Lee stopped making dies, it wouldn't have any impact on my life what so ever, as I could easily live without the convenience of the powder die, which is about all I like about their dies.

All my presses are RCBS. I did wear one out, an RS2, but it was an aluminum "O" frame press from the early 80's. RCBS replaced it free with the identical frame, an RS5 which has a couple of up grades I like.

As for stuff I like that Lee makes, I can't live without the inexpensive little case trimmer / case gauge they offer. I've used that little trimmer set up for as long as I've been reloading, and I've never had one of the case gauges or anything else break or wear out in more than 30 years. I did upgrade to the carbide cutter stud, but that was only because it was available, and I knew it would cut much easier. All in all, I get trimmed cases that are under .001" consistency.

I don"t like the ream and chamfer tool Lee makes. I have one, but I haven't used it since buying an RCBS 30+ years ago.

I do own and use the Lee powder scoops, but not as a measuring device, just to get the powder from a cup to the scale pan. I've been using the same scoop kit for more than 30 years.

That's about it. IMO, RCBS makes a very good product, and they stand behind it with a no BS promise.

GS

Just read your post (#46) and all I can say is stay away from Lee products. There's something about you, your methods or your aura that affects Lee tools. I have used Lee equipment for many years and there are tens of thousands of others that have done the same, with no problems.

All day I have felt insulted and disrespected. My thread asked what you guys have had great experience with other than Lee. Somehow some of you turned it into I shouldn't load or I'm outright not as smart as you.

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I don't remember any posts stating you were stupid, mebbe inexperience or perhaps you were mis-using the tool (you admit making a couple errors in judgment/tool use). Most pointed out that they have found Lee products, especially the ones you mention, as trouble free as any manufactured reloading tool. And a couple examples are merely personal choice (didn't like the primers falling on the floor, press loosens itself up??, interchangeable fittings? what are those? dies sets giving inconsistent lengths? [not a die problem]). Yep, that's enough to look for other manufacturers. Not ragging on you just making myself clear about my responses.

Get a printed catalog from any vendor if you still can (Cabelas, MidSouth, Natchez, Sinclair, etc.) and compare equipment. Sit in your easy chair, relax, then choose the one you think best fits your needs. In real life there ain't a big difference between the manufacturer's products...

But keep reloadin' and shootin'. Find tools you like and toss your Lee stuff.

Most of my equipment is RCBS green and I'm very happy with it!

That being said, I've had no issues with Lee dies, or Hornady dies either. I just prefer the carbide RCBS dies for pistol.

mdi said:

Get a printed catalog from any vendor if you still can (Cabelas, MidSouth, Natchez, Sinclair, etc.) and compare equipment. Sit in your easy chair, relax, then choose the one you think best fits your needs. In real life there ain't a big difference between the manufacturer's products...

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I'll second this. Regardless of what you chose to use, someone somewhere - and most likely here - will have had a problem with it, and be more than willing to tell you about it. Emphatically. There are fanboys and haters for everything. Especially for things at the ends of the spectrum, like Lee and Dillon.

Let us know where you land, though. Bonus points for pictures of your new equipment, too.

After all the comments here, I know this probably won't help, but let me say:

Over many years I have acquired lots of dies. I started with Lee but personally found that Redding and Hornady were better made. I especially like the micrometer seating dies and the new micrometer crimp dies. I have found also that (obviously) not all brass is the same, just as not all dies are the same. So I end up using dies from different makers for different calibers/uses. I won't go into all the details.

Some will say, well my technique is bad, but I have developed a regimen over many years (although I don't consider myself an expert), and find that I am very fussy about particular dies.

There is no right or wrong die. Over time you will find what works for you, or what you like. Then that becomes the right course of action. I have found that I personally don't factor price into my decisions. I don't go for the cheapest nor do I think that the most expensive are best.

And not to start another issue, I do not care for Lee lock rings. Nor Redding either. ALL of my dies have either Hornady or Forester lock rings. Mostly Hornady.

primers falling on the floor

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I keep coming back to this one, so maybe here is somewhere I can help the OP constructively. I had the same problem when I first bought a Breech Lee press. Then I searched on the Internet for the solution and found out that a primer arm needs to be left on the press, even when you're not priming with it, for the spent primers to be directed into the hopper and tube. After that, no primers on the floor, all go into the tube. Simple, but they kind of leave that out of the instructions.....

Hope that helps.

While I use mostly Lee products, I get annoyed with the company often. What kind of idiot do they have writing the instructions? Bought a bullet feeder for my Pro 1000. Can't use it. Why? The dies need to be beveled. You don't find this out until you buy one. Can't use lead boolits.

Might be bad luck. I've had some trouble with other brand dies, too. After you break your first decapping pin (+- mangle a wimpy non-Lee decapping stem like a pretzel), you might not think the "arm-shaking" Lee decapper pin is so bad. And if your arms are shaking, I'm sure you could find a set of wrenches that would do a better job than w/e it is you used. (Tip: screw the die into the press. Then, with the die in the press, put the two wrenches on it).

Reloading isn't paint by colors. If you want something that works right out of the box, that would be factory ammo. If you can't fix simple problems, that would be your next step. If you want to pull a lever and pat yourself on the back, buy a slot machine.

GLOOB said:

... (Tip: screw the die into the press. Then, with the die in the press, put the two wrenches on it). ...

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If someone is doing this without the die in the press it is a real DUH! in addition to being very difficult (I imagine).

O'course I was reusing surgical gloves for years before I tumbled to the simple way to get the fingers out without manually fighting each one out. The amount of time that I wasted on all of those gloves ... <shaking my head & chuckling>

Started out with Lee and while it was alright I thought RCBS reloading equipment was definitely a step-up in terms of overall quality and customer service.

Just a side note, I've used some of the pistol data in the Lee manual. I chrono most of those loads.
Can,t speak for pressures, but I've never seen any dangerous signs. The published fps specs proved to be very accurate on all but 2 loads. Those 2 were about 50 fps off.

I can't say the same about some of the Lymans data.

RCBS, Lee and Redding. I have had no issues with any of them. I started reloading in 1976.
I currently use my 1976 model RCBS Junior and a Lee 4 hole Classic turret. I have an RCBS Partner for light work. My dies are Redding and RCBS. My powder measure and scale are 1976 RCBS's.
kwg

I bought a dillon after about 10K rounds on a lee classic turret. All .45acp and 9mm. I had nowhere near the horror you did but it p'ed me off how much time I had to spend fiddling with it. Also in a day's work I can load 2k on the dillon - never approached that with the lee.

I will say that the ammo from the lee worked just as well as the stuff I make on the dillon.

evtSmtx said:

.45acp and 9mm ... in a day's work I can load 2k on the dillon

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While the production rate on my Dillon 650 is quite good, I have three Pro 1000's dedicated to 9/40/45 and production rate is very high. For high volume pistol reloading, it's hard to beat the Pro 1000.

I will say that the ammo from the lee worked just as well as the stuff I make on the dillon

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While my Dillon powder measure can drift over time and must be rechecked with scale from time to time, the fixed volumetric disk powder measure on Pro 1000 won't drift after a 1000 round reloading session.

If I am reloading match grade loads with more consistency in OAL (from less shell plate deflection), I will resize and prime cases separately. Having only to flare/powder charge and seat/crimp, the production rate really goes up and reloading effort/cycle is buttery smooth with very little effort. Using resized/primed brass also allows me to seat/crimp in separate steps.

I am glad that Lee offers progressive reloading option to reloaders at price point that is quite affordable.

JohnhenrySTL said:

Today I fixed my die. I made 100 beautiful 9mms, using exclusively Lee equipment. I trust the loads, at today's end that's all that matters to me.

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Good to hear. In the end, it's the holes on target that matters and our pistols won't care which press/equipment we used to load our ammunition.

I started reloading over 20 years ago with the Lee Anniversary kit including the Lee dies for .38 Spl/.357 Mag. Never had an issue. I've loaded 10,000's of rounds on it. No complaints whatsoever. Maybe, their quality has dropped?

I did buy .223 Rem and .30-06 dies from RCBS shortly thereafter without issue using the Lee press.

Recently, I decided to "upgrade" to the Redding Big Boss II press. It is much heavier and smoother in operation than Lee. I like the extra heft of it and I can't detect any flexing. It is a beast! I'm using my existing dies with it without issue. I got the Redding press for $180 from Midway using one of their $20 coupons.

Either press works with any of my dies.

My 2 cents!

I prefer the Hornady dies, they work well and I have had no issues with them. I have RCBS dies as well. And they also do the job well. The big reason I choose the Hornady dies is the box. It has a shell holder in it, and they stack well together.

That is not a deal breaker for me though. I did buy the RCBS X -die for my 308 and 223 that go through my AR pattern rifles.

What's the price difference between a good turret and a LnL AP? If you really do load a lot of pistol, maybe a progressive is the way to go.

Rcbs, Redding, Dillon are my top picks. Then Hornady and Lyman. Then anybody else Finally Lee.