Are BB guns firearms?

For those of us trapped here in NJ, it *is* considered a firearm by the State with all the FID card & permit baggage that goes with it.

For some strange reason, not too many folks buy them here.

Specifically mentioned as NOT a firearm here in FL (same for air rifles)

Federally, they are not firearms.

in MOST states they are not considered firearms.

however many states will treat them as weapons if they are used in the commission of a crime.

Depends on where you are. Up here, if the projectile's MV exceeds 500 FPS it's a firearm.
Haywood is a convicted criminal. He was to point a Walther CP99 Compact at a cop or uses it in another crime what does it matter if it's a pellet gun?

Not sure if people read the article but this is a legal case in which the state's legal definition says a BB gun is not a firearm, but a man is being charged for illegally possessing a firearm for having one in his car.

I predict the state loses.

Sunray said:

Depends on where you are. Up here, if the projectile's MV exceeds 500 FPS it's a firearm.
Haywood is a convicted criminal. He was to point a Walther CP99 Compact at a cop or uses it in another crime what does it matter if it's a pellet gun?

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Haywood was not committing a crime and that makes all the difference.

Haywood is prohibited from possessing a firearm due to his criminal record
The State of Minnesota's laws say a BB gun is not a firearm
A judge has ignored Minnesota's definition of a firearm and instead applied his own definition.

In IL firearm status for air guns is dependent upon caliber and muzzle velocity. .177 with a MV of less than 600 (might be 700) fps is not a firearm. Larger than .177 cal, regardless of MV, it is called a firearm and subject to 4473, waits, etc.
PIA for dealers and customers.

As mentioned above, as per the OP's question, the feds do NOT consider BB guns to be firearms, however state and more to the point local laws will and do vary on the subject.

The law will also generally treat simple possession differently than shooting, in my part of the world, it is general illegal as per city ordinance, to discharge pretty much anything that throws a projectile within city limits........as often as not, unless the individual is causing damage, the leo's tend to look the otherway.....at least officially. I would however suspect that they also make a note of it for future reference in the event BB gun damage is reported in that area

Well it may get complicated there.

Minnesota statutes about about people that can't have guns say:

MN Statute 624.713 said:

Subdivision 1.Ineligible persons. The following persons shall not be entitled to possess ammunition or a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon or, except for clause (1), any other firearm

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And then it goes on to list a bunch of people that can't have guns. (Clause 1 is about ammo for a gun you are allowed to have) Since everyone agrees Mr. Haywood isn't allowed firearms I'm not going to quote all of that.

Take my word that the BB gun isn't a "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon". (That's also a long quote)

Pistol is defined as such:

MN Statute 624.712 said:

Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's pop guns or toys.

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Bolding mine. So he's good there.

However, Minnesota does not seem to actually define "firearm" in their criminal code. (Or at least I couldn't find it, and they have a pretty good search feature)

They DO however define firearm in their Fish and Game statutes. It is defined thusly:

MN Statute 97A.015 said:

Subd. 19 .Firearm. Firearm means a gun that discharges shot or a projectile by means of an explosive, a gas, or compressed air.

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I am not a lawyer, and have no idea if they can pull definitions from outside the criminal code, but that seems to be the ONLY place in the 2015 MN Statutes where the word "Firearm" is defined. And if they're using that definition, he's boned.

Perhaps one of our Lawyers could chime in?

Statutes and search feature here: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/

however many states will treat them as weapons if they are used in the commission of a crime.

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Not all weapons are firearms................
Which is why FL issues a concealed weapons license, so you GTG with brass knuckles, switchblade, etc......

Technically they can't be a "FIREarm" because there isn't anything burning to propel the projectile. But many states regulate them as a gun or weapon. Heck some states are grouping even air soft and toy guns that look real under that blanket.

oneounceload said:

Not all weapons are firearms................
Which is why FL issues a concealed weapons license, so you GTG with brass knuckles, switchblade, etc......

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Are you sure about the brass knuckles? A quick google search says BKs are illegal to carry in Florida even with a CWFL permit.

Not all weapons are firearms................

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Important to understand!

Muzzle loading guns are also not firearms federally, but still deadly weapons. Same is true of bows, knives, swords, etc. An air gun can certainly be considered a dangerous or deadly weapon, despite not being a firearm. The only thing the non-firearm status grants you is that you're exempt from firearm specific legislation; minimum purchase age, background checks, interstate transfers, shipping requirements, etc.

A lot of state and local laws, however, will treat air guns, bows and crossbows the same as firearms for many purposes.

I agree they don't meet the fed definition and most states, but here in CA, one of my very stupid relatives got enhanced time due to the pellet pistol he used to rob a bakery. I don't know the legal mechanism used.

PapaG said:

In IL firearm status for air guns is dependent upon caliber and muzzle velocity. .177 with a MV of less than 600 (might be 700) fps is not a firearm. Larger than .177 cal, regardless of MV, it is called a firearm and subject to 4473, waits, etc.
PIA for dealers and customers.

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Does the state use manufacturer's claimed muzzle velocity, or actual measure velocity? IIRC, the two values differed radically in the few 3rd-party tests I've seen.

As near as my poor reading comprehension can determine this case says it doesn't matter. If the law wants to regard them as firearms they can be and what is written in the code is meaningless.

Unfortunately, cases like this give the impression it's better to fight a case on the street than in the courtroom. I fear for my country because of it.

In my home town they lumped everything under discharge of weapons. Everything,, from firearms down to slingshots. Go figure !!!!


blindhari

Officers'Wife said:

As near as my poor reading comprehension can determine this case says it doesn't matter. If the law wants to regard them as firearms they can be and what is written in the code is meaningless.

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By my initial reading the judge was disregarding Minnesota law. However, dogmush's diligent research shows that the judge does have a leg to stand on.

The question becomes: Can a judge use a definitions found outside the criminal code in a criminal case?

JSH1 said:

The question becomes: Can a judge use a definitions found outside the criminal code in a criminal case?

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Having talked with my cousin she claims she would have petition for some kind of hearing to determine the status. But then she claims had the judge in the Miller case been in the trenches of Europe and seen first hand the effect of shotguns to the well regulated militia he still would have been required to call for and "evidentuary (?) hearing on their effectiveness.

I am very much hoping there is far more to this case than is being reported. But then I have this silly notion that the judiciary has the function to interpret the laws as written not fill in the blanks of what they may feel the legislative branch left out. Otherwise separation of power becomes a sick joke and there really is no laws only opinions backed by the absolute power of the state.

Cbob said:

For those of us trapped here in NJ, it *is* considered a firearm by the State with all the FID card & permit baggage that goes with it.



For some strange reason, not too many folks buy them here.

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I don't live there anymore but I used to. "Someone I know" didn't know this was the law and by chance discovered that Amazon will deliver a Red Ryder to your doorstep. FOID or not.