Range Report: The all new Ruger LCR Ricochet!!

And I had to get it before Ruger discontinued another 9mm revolver. I waited too long with the 9mm Sec Six and SP101.

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Ya I did the same thing and that's why when S&W came out with the 929 I jumped on it right away.

I want a 9mm LCR but my biggest fear is bullets jumping crimp.

When Georg Luger designed the cartridge, it was designed in conjunction with the Parabellum-Pistole. The cartridges sitting in a magazine residing in the grip of a semi-automatic never experience the force that they do while being gripped by the extractor groove by moonclips in a revolver.

The cartridges were never designed to be fired from a revolver. If Ruger is to be blamed at all, it is for designing a firearm around a cartridge that was never meant to be fired in it.

Your lucky your recherché only left a welt. I have a piece of one in my right leg that sets off the metal detectors in air ports and I lie about what is setting it off because I don't want a batch of grief from them about it.

Ruger is hardly to blame for this but I can see your point of view. I hadn't thought of this as a problem until reading this post.

Interesting!

I will rethink 9mm as a viable option for a 9mm light revolver round now.

Hmmm.

Try MORE ammo...

Not to beat a dead horse, but OP mentions running only 2 mfg's ammo in the gun. And last time I checked there are dozens of manufacturers offering scores of variations on the 9mm Luger cartridge. Here is my solution:

Start cheap: Wolf, Tula, Brown Bear. In the unlikely event none of those is "tighter", step up to PMC, S&B, Magtech, Fiocchi, etc. Still no luck? Then run a box of Hornady XTP through it and call it done. Surely one of these will work like a charm. Good luck!

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger

You don't have to blaze a trail, most of the work has already been done. Arnie Boberg's pistols load the 9mm cartridge by pulling them back by the extractor groove. Some cartridges would just come apart. Users compiled a list:

http://community.bobergarms.com/forum/topics/boberg-compatible-ammunition

The problem has been separation of the bullet from the casing because of inadequate crimping by the bullet manufacturer (remember most guns PUSH the next round into the barrel and thus don't have problems with bad crimps. The Boberg PULLS then PUSHES the next round into place.)

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The problem has been separation of the bullet from the casing because of inadequate crimping by the bullet manufacturer

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This is ridiculous, the bullets and cases worked fine in hundreds of thousands of P08, P38, and Browning Hi-Power pistols, not to mention the thousands of other 9mm firearms in existence, the Borberg pistol and the Ruger revolver are yanking the bullets out of their cases but somehow its inadequate crimping by the bullet manufacturer?

I don't think so.

not enough bearing surface on those 115gn bullets. stick with 124, or 147 grain bullets. bigger bullet will, by default, go slower thus less recoil velocity to pull the other bullets out of the cases. or stick with the best bullet made for the 9mm (hornady 124 gn xtp) and carry on!

murf

not enough bearing surface on those 115gn bullets. stick with 124, or 147 grain bullets. bigger bullet will, by default, go slower thus less recoil velocity to pull the other bullets out of the cases. or stick with the best bullet made for the 9mm (hornady 124 gn xtp) and carry on!

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Now that's an interesting theory. The opposite way of looking at it is that the extra inertia of a 147 gr. bullet sitting still will be MORE of a problem when the gun and case rocket backward from it under recoil.

When I've heard of bullets "jumping crimp" in revolvers, it was usually heavy bullets.

However, the idea of having more bearing surface where the case grips the bullet is pretty compelling.

In theory it SHOULD be the neck tension of the case that holds the bullet still, not the crimp at all.

However, 9mm NATO/Luger/Parabellum is a very slightly tapered case and seems to rely more on the crimp than it should.

Not on the topic you are posting about but looking at the photos of the gun I'm wondering how you can hold on to it, the grip is so small?! Is there a special technique for these?

You can always tighten the crimp yourself, but beware of thin walled cases (by head stamp), because the sizer won't bring fired cases back down to the ID you need. You can tell while reloading and placing a bullet that slides down into the case on its own.

yes, the heavier bullet has more inertia and pulls out of the case easier than a lighter bullet. but, the heavier bullet has (usually) more surface bearing on the case wall. so, given the same momentum (mass times velocity), the heavier bullet should should resist pulling out of the case better than the lighter bullet (same force, slower acceleration). ya never know till ya try it.

murf

sam1911,

a thought on the heavy bullets in the revolvers: the design of the heavy-for-caliber bullets leaves much of the bullet outside of the case. in that scenario, there is relatively less bearing surface available to prevent bullet pull.

put more of the bullet in the case, you get more bearing surface, but sacrifice internal case volume and, consequently, have to reduce the powder charge to maintain max pressure. that and you now can't crimp the case mouth in the cannelure, or the crimp groove. sometimes you just can't win (unless you use a smaller expander plug!).

murf

I've had my LCR9 for a bit more than a year now. I'm not at all surprised to be reading this, even though I have not experienced this problem myself.

I suppose the reason I haven't had this problem is that I load my own ammunition, and being a bit paranoid about bullet set back, I tend to use a firm crimp.

I've loaded and shot both Bayou Bullets 147 gr RNFP, and Hornady HAP 124 gr in my LCR9. My loads are pretty stout, .1 gr under max load, because they have to function both a 1911 and a Luger. They do so flawlessly.

The manual clearly states that this may be an issue with ammunition that is not firmly crimped.

My revolver is astonishingly accurate. I offer no explanation why it should be more accurate than a similar revolver from another manufacturer. The sights aren't any better, nor is the grip any larger. The only thing I can think of is the trigger is a bit better.

All in all, . . . , I really like my LCR9 and carry it frequently as my daily carry.

If you reload 9mm, you can put on a nice, tight custom for you and your LCR crimp and you'll be a very happy owner.

Bullets can walk out of their cases in revolvers and it's especially true for lightweight revolvers like the LCR that shoot rimless ammunition which is not designed for revolvers. There's a reason rimmed revolver ammunition has such a noticeable crimp on the brass, it's to keep the bullet in the brass in a revolver.

too much crimp will deform the bullet. the easy solution would be to purchase 9mm bullets with a crimp groove or cannelure, but no one makes them.

murf

The 9mm cartridge was never meant to be used in revolvers.

Revolver cartridges are crimped; Semi-auto pistol cartridges are not!!

Semi-auto pistol cartridges were designed to be use with magazines.

If you do use a semi-auto pistol cartridge in a revolver, the revolver should be
HEAVIER than the "LCR" is.

If the revolver is too light, it will recoil more; and, the semi-auto
pistol cartridges will hit the revolver's recoil shield with greater force.

Each time the revolver is fired, this greater impacting force against the recoil shield
can gradually dislodge each remaining bullet from its respective shell.

It is simpler to just trade-in this revolver, and purchase a 38 special
or 357 magnum.

Preferably, cartridges used in revolvers should always be crimped!

It was not a good idea for Ruger to market this type of gun.

The Smith and Wesson model 929, or similarly heavy handguns
are more practical implementation of the 9mm revolver.

The Smith and Wesson model 625, in 45 ACP, is another good
example of a heavy frame taming recoil and reducing the cartridge's
impact force against the recoil shield.

If Ruger designed a 9mm GP100, that would also be a practical
implementation of a 9mm revolver.

A couple of summers ago there were several threads on this for traditional snubby calibers

and about a year ago for the 9mm. This one even links to a video (or did back then, I didn't check to see if that link is still good).

Interestingly enough, at that time the Winchester white box and Fiochi worked fine for me, but Federal Champions had totally pulled out after only three shots. I've tried other cheap ammo since then (but don't remember exactly what) and WWB was the only problem I had. ETA: All three I tested back then were 115 gr. loads.

I have a recently purchased LCR in 9mm and I can't say I have any issues with it. I do reload, but I don't do anything special with the rounds fired through the gun (no crimp or anything else). Having said that, jumping crimp is known to cause issues with auto cartridges in revolvers.

You've hardly exhausted the options within the 115gr family. At this point are you complaining just to complain?

Ok, now, personally I find their answer pretty funny, too. It's a sidearm built for self-defense using the most common handgun ammo in the world. And they'd suggest the right answer to the problem is a lighter bullet than the lightest common bullet anyone makes?

That strikes me as an answer the tech support guy didn't think about very hard.

The Hornady 9mm Luger 100 gr FTX® Critical Defense® Lite is obviously a lighter bullet.

http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Luger-100-gr-FTX-Lite

Except most 9mm bullets that are less than 115 grains act like 380 ACP bullets as far as terminal ballistics. Out of a 4" barrel the 100 gr Hornady bullet has a velocity of 1125 fps and 281 ft-lbs of energy.

It penetrates 10" of gel through heavy clothing - about what the average 380 round does.

I think you're better off with 38 spl +P rounds that don't jump crimp as opposed to going with light for caliber 9mm bullets to prevent crimp jump.

I've heard people suggest that the first round be your 147gr round like the Ranger "T" series RA9T or the 147gr HST and then lighter bullets in the rest of the chambers. Maybe you step through the bullet weights:

1) 147gr
2) 135gr
3) 124gr
4) 115gr
5) 100gr

The fact remains that this isn't a ruger issue. This has been happening as long as revolvers have been chambered in autoloader cartridges.

Had the OP looked into such things before his purchase the would have known this and not keep repeating how ruger screwed up.

I wouldn't sell a snub that's that accurate for anything. Check out different ammo out.