Carrying a Small Gun for SD

If circumstances prohibit my usual choices for carry, I'll have an LCP in my pocket. Something is always better than nothing, in my opinion. There are some pretty decent loads for .380 nowadays, and it's accurate enough for its purpose. Mr. Farago isn't above posting contentious opinions for the sake of stirring the pot, as that's how websites stay alive.

This guy stopped a terrorist attack with a 5-shot snubby:
http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/hero-of-1993-church-attack-calls-for-being-armed/

Every handgun (and most long guns) is a "small gun" to at least somebody.

Seems I recently read of someone who was compiling records of as many DGU shootings as he could possibly find, and tabulated countless examples over what amounted to a lifetime. He was unable to find a single incident in which a defender was killed (or was it shot?) after the attacker had been shot with even a .22. I've not reviewed nearly as many, and I've never heard of it happening, either. (These are civilian cases in which the defender, or another person he/she was defending, was targeted for a crime other than specific assassination, such as rape, robbery, or burglary.)

I suppose the author does not trust others to be aware of their options. Maybe that comes from self-inflection.

Still, I do feel a bit better with my PF-9 than with my P-32 (but I feel better yet if I have both.)

The problem I have with mouse guns is that most people never shoot them while putting themselves under simulated stress. They aren't exactly easy to shoot under good conditions; how are will you do when your heart rate is up and the adrenaline is pumping? Have you ever tried? A few of us here could probably do well enough with the tiny guns but I'm not one of them even though rigorous exercise is often part of my training at the range.

I like the OP's choice of the Glock 19, my preference is the Glock 23 although I've been giving serious consideration to switching to the 9mm. I think these platforms are a great balance of size and concealability while not shortchanging you on power and capacity.

If I absolutely had to go to a smaller primary I would be thinking about a Smith and Wesson Shield or a Ruger LC9.

The author's points would apply, if they were to be given credence, to any gun.

Sounds like anti arguments. "It's better to just be a victim then to attempt to fight back". Screw that, I'd prefer to improve my chances to survive by any means possible.

I carry an LCP Custom in my pocket daily. I have recently purchased 2 of the 7 round magazines for it, meaning I can pocket carry and have 15 rounds at my disposal. The trigger on the Custom and the extended mags make shooting it accurately, pretty easy with just a little practice.

Rule 1 Have a gun.

I think the author took it that far deliberately to be thought provoking.

While I don't agree with how far he takes it...the average gun owner, with no professional firearms training, who buys a mouse gun they hardly ever shoot, is about as well off as the article. Their survival depends on the criminal deciding to run away.

I'm of the mindset that a small gun is better than no gun. Instead of doing the academic exercise of hoping I brought enough gun, I prefer to be realistic with myself and my own behaviors.

If I cannot easily carry my Glock 19 where it is almost invisible and accessible, then I switch to a smaller carry gun.

Case in point. The wife and daughter wanted to take a walk yesterday. I was in gym shorts and wasn't planning on changing. A 5 shot 642 with a clip grip got the nod. Last week I was at a wedding. I was not going to carry my Glock in a shoulder holster, so a Pico rode along in my breast pocket. Small guns with low round counts, but I am a serviceable shot with them.

I do carry a Glock 19 when I can. Today it is 20 degrees cooler than yesterday. I'm wearing a tee shirt with a flannel over it. Glock is riding IWB. The recent random craziness has prompted me to rethink what I consider adequate protection. I don't generally go out after dark, I live in a small town with very little crime, and I don't purposely go poking around places that are statistically more dangerous than average.

But I can't quantify a nut job with a gun or a knife hitting a soft target like a shopping center.

I am not a trained first responder. I do not have an LEO or military background. I have no grandiose ideals of saving the day if someone goes bananas and starts shooting.

My priorities are:

1.) My family's safety. Getting my wife and daughter our of harms way trumps everything. I wouldn't hesitate to draw and empty my weapon in that situation.

2.) My personal safety. Secondary and piggybacks on my first reason. I need to make sure that I am there to take care of my family. I can't manage the situation if I am shot.

3.) The public good. If my family is safe and I can muster the courage, of course I would. As much as I am worried about my family, I know every other person there has a family of some kind. If I am armed, I should attempt to help the situation as long as I am not hindering the first responders or causing collateral damage.


In this situation a 15 round Glock 19 gives me the best option due to the amount of firepower. However, I see no negative of having a J frame or .380 over nothing at all. I would say that in a stressful situation, my accuracy will probably statistically awful no matter what gun I am using.

My "small" guns are exceedingly accurate. Why would I miss with them?

A Makarov PM or CZ-82 might be just what you're after, OP.

Easier to conceal than a Glock 19 but with some good Underwood JHP loads in 9x18mm you have a lot more power than any .380, more than enough for self defense against aggressive humans.

I'm a fan of pocket guns for the normal reasons. I actually carry them as opposed to the occasional carry of larger guns.

Best one I've shot (rather accurately as well) is the Smith Bodyguard 380

I'd get one over the super snappy Ruger LCP as long as the price was within $50. If the Ruger is much cheaper, it's still a good buy

My smallest pocket gun currently is a Sig P290. I am capable of reliably hitting 8" plates at 25 yards, which actually surprised me. I find myself carrying it more often than my Glock 26 for short trips.


Take Care,

Buzz

My two carry guns, an LCP and G-23 give me flexibility.

You'll probably miss anyway if you don't practice with the ammo you intend carrying out of a .45 too.
"...depends on the person and his level of discipline/experience..." More about the amount and quality of his/her training.
Anyway, .thetruthaboutguns.com is mostly a bunch of "good ol' boys" playing than anything else.

Came across this TTAG article on "small" guns just now and it seemed kinda insane to me. Literally, having no gun at all is better than having a small gun? Because (1) you'll probably miss anyway, (2) you'll just piss off the bad guy resulting in the escalation of violence, and (3) you'll overlook a better option than using the gun.

Click to expand...

I make a mental threat assessment of any environment I'm expected to be in, and to be frank most of the time I end up with a .38 snubby in my pants side pocket.

I know from experience that the little gun is capable of keeping all of its shots within the K-zone of a B-27 silhouette target at a measured distance of 100 yards Provided I do my part. No, I don't expect to shoot in self defense at this distance, but I also know that lesser distance isn't going to cause any problems. I would expect quality .380 and 9mm "pocketable" pistols can do as well, with a nod to the .380 because of less recoil.

My overall attitude is not, "Don't shoot because you might miss," but rather along the lines of "I'm not going to shoot unless they're is no viable alternative, but I am going to acquire the marksman skills necessary to make it probable that I won't miss. If I thought otherwise I'd leave the gun at home.

Shooting is a last, not first resort, and in those very few instances when I thought trouble might be more likely then usual I opted for a bigger gun. But the key term here is "very few instances."

Bobson said:

... Literally, having no gun at all is better than having a small gun? Because (1) you'll probably miss anyway, (2) you'll just piss off the bad guy resulting in the escalation of violence, and (3) you'll overlook a better option than using the gun. ...

Click to expand...

IMO, anyone buying into those 3 "reasons" should probably not own a gun. Glad to see that you are not in that group.

... What do you think about carrying a mouse gun or small gun in certain situations?

Click to expand...

I carry a KelTec P3AT (.380) quite often, especially in the Summer, and feel that it is adequate for "having a say" if things suddenly go sideways and I have no viable skedaddle option.

I've got a LCP and it shoots fine out to 15 yards +/- That's plenty over the distance needed. I take mine to the range periodically and a standard NRA target 25 yard target (At 15) is in real trouble.... I believe that's great for a pocket pistol. It does tend to shoot high (hold low), as have the other LCP's that I've shot.

I like the Hornady Critical Defense Ammo, or at least the reviews of it's performance.

Yes there are better choices if you KNEW you were going into harms way.... BUT we're the good guys (Typically) and it's a whole lot better that the cannon you leave at home!

I almost always carry a compact XD in .45 ACP (10 +1, 4" barrel) strong side IWB. Very infrequently, I choose to drop my five-shot .38 special snubby in a leather pocket holster into a jeans or jacket pocket.

I do this because I've spent a lot of time at the range with a timer practicing drawing the two guns (one from IWB, one from the pocket), shooting controlled pairs, shooting failure to stop drills, and engaging multiple targets, including performing the necessary reloads.

I'm sure that it won't surprise anybody here that my accuracy, power, and speed (thank you Col. Cooper!!) are MUCH better with the compact XD than with the snubby. The measured times, and the positions of the holes downrange just don't lie. This is to say nothing about the differences in ballistics between .45 ACP and .38 special.

I've decided to carry because I am committed to protecting myself and those I love from deadly, criminal threats, and if all it takes to put a better tool in my hand if (God forbid) if I ever have to pull the trigger on a threat is a little wardrobe tweaking from time to time then I'm certainly going to take this option.

For those of you who haven't used your mouse gun to try to solve exercises that simulate an intense criminal encounter, you might want to head out to range and try it some time. You might find that, depending on what your goals might be, your drawstroke is too slow, you miss too much, you're too slow to engage multiple targets, your firepower is less than you would like and your reloads are too frequent, and your ammo doesn't have the impact that you desire.

Yea, the TTAG article is provocative. Do I think that its badly off-target? Not so much.

In the hot summer months, I often carry my normal BUG as my main carry. It's a S&W 642 J-frame 5-shot revolver carried in a pocket holster in my right front pocket. I have two nylon pouches that wrap around my belt with each pouch holding (2) 5-round stripper clips. That gives me 5-rounds in the gun and 20-rounds for reloads.

Everyone has to make their own decision on what caliber is sufficient for defensive carry. After my own personal research, I decided the .380 ACP was sufficient, but 9x19 is my preferred caliber of choice. Other factors went into to the decision, also. Cost, availability, capacity, etc.

Weigh the chances of you needing a gun at all, then the chances you are in a situation where your gun (LCP, snubby, service pistol, etc) won't be adequate, and then the chances you have no option but fight in that circumstance.

If you carry a less powerful and/or lower capacity gun, strongly consider getting some knife and/or unarmed training should you not be able to stop the attack due to good hits, penetration or whatever. Consider that you carry a gun for defense and you should be trying to escape, but if you have to use your gun you should use it and any other means at your disposal aggressively until the threat is gone or you can escape.

I thinks 'Shafter' hit an important issue well: Training.

How often does one train/practice on a little pocket carry gun? I suspect not very much. Sadly, most folks don't train nearly enough on any gun they own. Have you ever trained during exhaustion? During massive distraction? How fit are you? All these things, and more, are in play.

Some quotes come to mind: " the best gun is the one you have", and also "Bring enough gun, maybe 2". So, I'd rather have a little 'pocket-carry' than nothing, but I'd also rather have a tool that my hands are extremely familiar with, and that I've trained enough that I've also trained under stress with.

The boot camps/academies for military/cops/fire folks are partly designed to induce stress. And, many experts have concluded that "any skill not learned under stress, cannot be recalled under stress". You need a level of 'stress inoculation', and to practice your shooting skills under stress.

That's a huge part of why I changed CC platforms, and why I have taken the classes I have. I KNOW I can do what I am trained to do under stress, because I've been training and practicing, and actually doing it very effectively for almost 17 years. I have a track record of not freaking out and locking up when the stuff hits the fan... In the areas I have been trained & exposed to.

Do I think that some of that will transfer over? Yes, I do. Will all of it? I have no idea. The only time I was shot at, I didn't have a weapon, (not allowed at that time) so I went diving behind the biggest thing I could.

I've driven by that Burlington Mall, many, many times. I've shopped there, I know the type of community it is. I'm so sad for the folks that lost loved ones. It's also a cold reminder that we must be vigilant, and prepared at all times.

PE