Remington R51

I've only rented the R51 at my local range. Apparently the one they got had the nose diving issue, and Remington sent them "updated" mags for it. I've rented it twice and functioned fine.

I have an R51 with 600+rds through it now. I encountered the nosedive problem early on and planned to just work through it. Eventually I took the mags apart and polished the front of the magazine where the bullet nose touches the mag during loading. Used a small fine file and finished off with 1200 grit sandpaper, and have not seen a reoccurance of the problem in the last 350 rds. I think it's solved.

Generally low-ish build quality compared to much of the competition, but the great majority of pistols appear to be functional at this time. It is telling how infrequently comments on the gun show up on this board anymore, despite seeing several of them sell everyday on Gunbroker. Still not impressively nice handguns whose workmanship you'd like to show off, though, and Remington's bungle certainly turned off a large portion of potential customers permanently, no matter how good the gun is ever made.

They're selling under 350$ now, which seems incredible to me (either Remington is basically in close-out mode trying to gin up enthusiasm or sell off the last of production, or this design is a heck of a lot cheaper to make than I'd ever figured)

TCB

barnbwt said:

They're selling under 350$ now, which seems incredible to me (either Remington is basically in close-out mode trying to gin up enthusiasm or sell off the last of production, or this design is a heck of a lot cheaper to make than I'd ever figured)

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Would you consider the S&W MP9 Shield @ $339.00 cash price Black Friday sale at a indoor shooting facility I frequent as one of those pistols design that is a heck of a lot cheaper to make than you ever figured? The same place has Ruger RAP9, RAP9c and Rap45 at $405.00 cash on sale. What do you think the distributor pays as an example S&W per unit cost then the distributor to the retailer/FFL dealer mark up???????? Think about it!

Those designs have been around long enough to be highly optimized, and in a number that gains economy of scale; the R51 has neither benefit going for it yet.

TCB

barnbwt said:

Those designs have been around long enough to be highly optimized, and in a number that gains economy of scale; the R51 has neither benefit going for it yet.

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The Ruger RAP9 approxmently a little over one year in the market place. Yes the MP9 Shield much longer but you are missing the point that the cost of production is much lower than you think it to be!

Those designs are all heavily based (or nearly outright copies) of long proven systems, which accelerates achievment of those advantages I mentioned. You are correct that it appears the R51 may in fact be cheaper to make than non-polymer competitors, however I would argue build quality is propertionally inferior (apart from their accurate barrels, they rank with Hi Point by my estimation)

There are quite a few posts on the R 51, mine has digested about 700 rounds to date with the only problems associated with Winchester steel case 9mm that i bought by mistake, it did not like the mag full that i shot. That was in the first few shots out of the pistol, i later had a mag with the nose dive---Remington sent me a new one but I have had no further problems with any of them.
I like the pistol for plinking and do not lack confidence in it's reliability and it is reasonably accurate as well. I do not nor did i ever intend to carry this pistol although there is no reason in my mind why it could not fill a CC role.
I have arthiritic hands and reassembly is a dreaded chore, it loads easily and points naturally--- would I spend the money to buy again? Sure, it is a well built pistol that is enjoyable to shoot.

Reference R51 mentioned $350.00 selling price examples of other pistols selling Beretta Pico Inox 380ACP $249.95, Ruger LC9S 9mm-Luger $349.95, S&W Shield 9mm-Luger $349.95 sale prices listed on line for Duncan's Gun Shop in North Wilkesboro NC. Thus one could argue that those pistols are as cheaply built or cheaper built than the Remington R51 which seems to be the proverbial whipping boy for cheap and poor quality.

I wanted to buy the R51 when it came out very fascinating lockup but instead waited thankfully from what I have heard, later on my step mom bought a rm380 for dirt cheap at a pawn shop when they came out for $180 dollars . After tearing the gun apart it is one of the most simple small guns I have ever seen but at there msrp I think there getting one over on the consumer especially without a passive firing pin block and no safety to speak. I wish they would make that design in 9 and stop with reintroducing a Peterson design

Reference R51 mentioned $350.00 selling price examples of other pistols selling Beretta Pico Inox 380ACP $249.95, Ruger LC9S 9mm-Luger $349.95, S&W Shield 9mm-Luger $349.95 sale prices listed on line for Duncan's Gun Shop in North Wilkesboro NC. Thus one could argue that those pistols are as cheaply built or cheaper built than the Remington R51 which seems to be the proverbial whipping boy for cheap and poor quality.

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If I'm not mistaken, those all have polymer frames that require no machining; would likely explain at least some of the price advantage (the real surprise of the Remington's price for me, is that the closest all-metal competition is far more expensive, albeit also far nicer machined).

i love the looks and the idea behind the R51. would own one today except it is made by Big Green. ( we love recalls and it shows ) I'll pass.

barnbwt said:

If I'm not mistaken, those all have polymer frames that require no machining; would likely explain at least some of the price advantage (the real surprise of the Remington's price for me, is that the closest all-metal competition is far more expensive, albeit also far nicer machined).

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There are a number of excellent CAD/Modeling design programs that allow efficient/effective design elements thus facilitated with CNC production machinery that allow cost effective production. There is a vast difference between esthetics and functionality.

The CAD/modeling design is a fairly cheap element, largely because of the programs you mentioned which have automated the process more than perhaps any field besides collating. Injection molding dies are expensive up front, but a dirt-cheap way to make a product in the quantities of S&W/Glock/etc where the initial costs are distributed. Modern ultra-high-speed CNC machining of aluminum is a true game changer as far as making that material/process marketable, but it still has more expensive fixed costs even in a high-volume product line.

At least looking at my R51, it certainly seems there is a good deal of secondary polishing going on (not even a trace of external tool marks, and lots of round blended surfaces, a real bear to do economically on CNC), which even if done with a media blasting gun (my suspicion based on final surface finish and the fact the interior is not similarly finished-out) adds substantial labor costs to the equation (wild guess that they're not doing CNC bead blasting, lol). Quite a bit of hand-assembly is doubtless required as well, though I'll bet any hammer-based handgun has a similar number of fiddly bits and drift pins, IMO the ultimate advantage of the striker guns as far as cost.

i love the looks and the idea behind the R51. would own one today except it is made by Big Green

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Everyone loved it. Well, everyone but the dummies who claim it looks like Flash Gordon's gun (a large, bulbous affair with rings around the barrel; I have no clue where they see the resemblance), Decker's gun (a Mannlicher bolt action with a bunch of junk glued on), and a water pistol (presumably because it isn't brick-shaped).

TCB

I was going to get an R51 when they came out in 2014. But the gunshop called me and told me they had to send them back due to issues. I was disappointed but that was life. I bought something else, don't remember what. About a month ago I was in a LGS and saw they had a new R51. After handling it I bought it. I've put >500 rounds through it without a hiccup. It has handled reloads, FMJ and now 100 rounds of SD ammo (Remington 124 HP +P). I picked up two extra mags for it from Buds. It took a little while to figure out how to disassemble and reassemble but now I am gtg. I like it and will be using it for my EDC, instead of the Kahr that I could never shoot well. It is a little bigger but I can handle that. It turns out it is the same size as a Makarov so holsters are no problem.

I picked up two extra mags for it from Buds.

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Hmm, so they have extra mags available now? (Never quite understood why they weren't able to sell all those they'd made in advance during the recall)

Mak holsters work well for it? I may have to look into that

TCB

Yes, I am pocket carrying it right now. Dimensions are the same as a Mak, once I found that out it opened up a whole new world of holster options.

Remington seems to have a new gun out every week. I hadn't even see this RP9, till I noticed it on a gun site. Why so many guns?, Most are priced between 3-5 hundred dollars.

George, I have acquired many of those Remington offferings...a couple of R1 .45 ACP, a Rm 380, R 51, DPMS AR, several Bushmasters and probably more with all the companies they gobbled up. In fact the AAC 300 Blackout Handi Rifle i am holding in the photo is a Rem holding company.
The one thing i can say aboutall of them is they are well made and have functioned flawlessly. My R51 does not get five stars from me though, not because of a function or manufacturing problem but because my arthritic hands have a hard time with reassembly.

It

Ibmikey said:

My R51 does not get five stars from me though, not because of a function or manufacturing problem but because my arthritic hands have a hard time with reassembly.

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It does require a good amount of strength to reassemble. Hopefully someone will come out with a tool or fixture for that.

PCFlorida said:

It does require a good amount of strength to reassemble. Hopefully someone will come out with a tool or fixture for that.

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I have found that a nylon chopstick is useful if my thumbnail is cut too short to be effective.

I use the slide release in the same way. Works very well.

It does require a good amount of strength to reassemble. Hopefully someone will come out with a tool or fixture for that.

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There's actually two cuts in the 'rails' inside the slide where the bushing sits. When the barrel is extended through the slide nose, the barrel/spring/bushing can be tilted up so that the bushing fits into these cuts, then the barrel (carefully) released, leaving the bushing & spring captured in a compressed state while the barrel is removed/cleaned. Obviously some intelligence is needed to make sure the parts don't spring out of this precarious arrangement, but that is what Remington did to ease disassembly somewhat.

The real solution is a removable barrel-bushing at the nose, similar to the 1911, whose main purpose is to be turned 90deg to;
-Lock itself onto the barrel with the spring in its compressed state (at a lower degree of tension, say 1/8" retracted)
-Unlock itself from the slide for disassembly (slide out the front, same as current)

At that point the compressed barrel/spring/bushing assembly would be akin to a recoil guide rod assy in other designs, though easier to pop apart into its components by rotating the bushing on the barrel. The only reason the spring must be compressed so much to remove the barrel/slide at present is so the user can get a good purchase on the barrel grooves; otherwise, you only need enough compression to relieve pressure driving the breech block down (so like 1/8" of slide travel).

TCB

Barnbwt, Agree wholeheartedly but for now i use a rubber coated instrument and several unkind remarks about Remington's ancestry.