Untrained dogs are not necessarily a security enhancement

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff White

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
37,926
Location
Alma Illinois
In virtually every thread we have here about home security we get a lot of posts about dogs. In my experience investigating burglaries I've noticed that dogs who aren't trained specifically for security duties can be unreliable.

Watch this video from a home security system and you'll see what I mean.

Crystal-clear security video shows two burglars breaking into St. Louis home http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_560ec10f-3906-5dc0-b180-b21c021c4f1a.html

The four dogs don't bark. The alarm sounding runs the burglars off. You might also note that one of the burglars is armed.
 
Research has shown that most druggies are afraid of big black dogs. They tend to stay away from houses with them. I can attest to the homeless around my town being terrified of my black lab/chow mix who is pure black and extremely friendly. Children and normal women love this dog and he loves being bear-hugged by them.
 
There was a taxidermy shop in Casper, Wy. that was burglarized a number of times. The owner caught 15 Prairie Rattlers. He notified the public the Rattlers would be released on the floor every night.
The Fire and Police notified him they would not respond to his shop at night. OK, but he never had another burglary. Snakes unlike dogs do not require security training.:eek:
 
A dog must exhibit some sort of protective instinct and behavior before I would rely on it in any way.
Personally I can't think of a dog I've had that didn't take up those protective behaviors early on with family members, vehicles or the home.
Over the years I got enough feedback from those who came into contact with those dogs to be comfortable with how they'd behave when I wasn't present.
I'd also like to hear about studies on big black dogs.
 
Is anyone having trouble viewing the video? It works great on my iPhone, but I'm not getting it to load in Firefox on my PC.
 
All I rely on my dogs for is to wake me up; their little yappy hearts are in it, too.

Remember, 'every dog is the same side on the inside'.... :)


Larry
 
Works on my Edge browser.

True that they may be unreliable, however I've seen any number over the years that did very well without any training whatsoever, have owned many myself. Were these people thinking they could rely on the dogs to protect the property, or even bark?
 
Were these people thinking they could rely on the dogs to protect the property, or even bark?

I don't know what the homeowners who owned the house in the video were thinking, but I've listened to a lot of burglary victims wish they had an alarm system instead of the just the family dog.

I'm not putting dogs down. They serve their purpose, but a lot of people think that if they have a gun and one or more dogs, they are good to go security wise.

In this case, the homeowners can be glad they had a good security system because the dogs didn't even bark.
 
Our big dog is untrained but very alert and goes crazy barking when anyone comes around. Just 1/2hr ago, after dark, some idiot knocked on the door and when I asked who it was could not hear him for the barking so I just told him we weren't interested and goodnight. Personally I think this dog (Dingo, 85lbs) has for sure kept us from getting broken into as there were multiple break ins all around us in Pahrump but we were not hit. Same thing here. On the app Next Door we get alerts about people getting hit around us, and they never mention having a dog or guns. It's like these robbers know exactly who has what, and I think our dog is a big advantage. Our little dog, however is useless for security but great as a lap dog. :)
 
Unless one has a trained security/attack dog all one can expect from the run of the mill house pet is to act as an alarm. And in that role MOST of the time any breed will excel, if from nothing else but pure self preservation instinct.

I know for a fact that my English Staffy is as good as any alarm system out there, but as far as I can attest an "alert" is all I'm confident in for her role. I don't know and I hope I never have to find out if she would get aggressive with an intruder. I don't really want her to be people aggressive as that is not my intended purpose for her. She's the alarm and I'm the aggressor, if it comes to that.

That being said I know of several acquaintances whose dogs would and have without hesitation charge any strangers.

There's nothing wrong with a home security system but a good dog can play the same role. They might both have the chance of malfunction but the dog gets my nod every time.
 
It's possible the dogs didn't bark because they knew the two guys. One or both of them may have been in the house before. The larger Lab seemed happy to see the first burglar.
My brother's GF spent a few nights at his house. After they broke up, his Rottweiler didn't react when the GF broke into the house with two guys who helped steal a bunch of stuff including a large TV. The two guys weren't known to the dog but he must have felt comfortable with them because they were with the GF, who he knew.
 
Two Airedale Terriers. One, solid black with radiant white teeth and a very, very enthusiastic bark. Once, scruffy black and tan and would eat your leg if you tried to come in our house without permission. All we want is for the to bark, I or my wife will provide the bite if needed. So far, the first part works well, and thankfully have never had to test the second.
 
Once, scruffy black and tan and would eat your leg if you tried to come in our house without permission.

My point is, how do you know for sure? Have you tested this dog, or are you basing it on how he reacts when the family is home and someone he doesn't know comes in?

I've had burglary victims tell me they were sure their dog would run off anyone who didn't belong, but when it came time, the dog didn't.

I was very sure that if anyone tried to harm one of the family they would not like the reception they got from my lab. But I have no idea how he would have reacted to an intruder if no one was home for him to protect.
 
I guess some homeowners may not know if Fido is protective and/or aggressive. I would guess an even greater number of burglars don't know, either.
 
In virtually every thread we have here about home security we get a lot of posts about dogs. In my experience investigating burglaries I've noticed that dogs who aren't trained specifically for security duties can be unreliable.

Watch this video from a home security system and you'll see what I mean.

Crystal-clear security video shows two burglars breaking into St. Louis home http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_560ec10f-3906-5dc0-b180-b21c021c4f1a.html

The four dogs don't bark. The alarm sounding runs the burglars off. You might also note that one of the burglars is armed.
Yep, I saw another video a couple of weeks ago where the dog just stood there watching.

That said, my old dog was a shepherd-golden mix... at one point I had a roommate who called me at the office where I was working late to tell me she had come home and noticed the house was cold, then observed a broken window in her bedroom. I called the cops and left to go meet them at the house. They got there before me and when I arrived they told me "Lady, you have a really good dog." Ginger had apparently barked like crazy when they arrived, from which they inferred that she must have done the same when the would-be burglar broke in, so that he left without taking anything. Another time I went camping with a friend and when we were checking in at the entrance to the campsite the guy manning the booth put his hand in the car window to pet her, and she promptly bit him, the only time she ever bit a person. He immediately said he should have known better than to intrude on her territory. She was not at all trained for security.
 
Although one of my two GSDs is a trained MWD, I don't now think, nor have ever, thought of my dogs as a security enhancement to protect my home from burglary when none of the family is home. I have lots of video coverage and a great electronic security system to catch the bad guys ...

Although I have little doubt what my dogs might do to an unarmed intruder should someone enter when no humans are home, my dogs are here to be a layer of security for when we are home -- to alert us and protect us if necessary -- and Jeff makes a very valid point in his original post. I know too many dog-owners who seem to have way too much confidence in their own dogs' abilities as "security guards."
 
Almost every crew I ever supervised had at least one dog on the street - and we used them extensively. Although I was never a dog handler my first exposure to them was in 1971 with the 101Abn where I was given a walk through and demonstration (scout dogs cross trained as mine/booby trap capable) as part of a job I was doing. From there into police work a few years later - then as we got really squared away my small outfit (100 sworn) had as many as six dogs for work on the street (2 per shift with very liberal call out policies when we needed additional or did not have one in service). We relied on our dogs for building and area searches (and in fact - by policy our officers didn't search buildings. They set up a perimeter then the dog and handler, with backup would enter and search...). My outfit ran Rottweilers, Shepherds, then finally Belgian Malinois... Down here in south Florida it's very easy to overheat and actually kill one your dogs while in operation -for that reason we phased out the Rotts and when I retired out we were changing over to the Malinois (for those who've never seen one they look like very skinny Shepherds but are much more suited to hot environments...)

I only cite the above to provide background on my own two dogs - neither trained except to obedience standards - and not particularly aggressive at all. I think they might possibly provide some mild deterrence if home alone and anyone attempted entry (two very friendly - but also noisy labradors...) but their real value is when I'm home. What I rely on is their alertness and hearing more than anything else. Part of any dog handler's training is learning how to interpret their dog's alerts (whether it's just some random noise or something specific... is it close in or at a distance... is it a low level alert or a full on threat of some kind....). Learn to watch your animals closely and they'll give you alerts when you never hear a thing yourself... Then it's up to me to deal with whatever is there (99% of the time nothing of consequence - the other 1% might be a problem -but at least I'm not responding blind...).
 
Okay, untrained dogs are not a panacea.

If we can find a video of an alarm system not doing its job, then it is a panacea. We, we already know people forget to use them, opt not to respond to them, etc.

For home security, people often say to get a gun. How many times have we seen an untrained person with a gun that failed? What about trained folks?

Common sense must be applied in making security decisions.
 
We didn't get our pooch with the intention of her being a security asset, but I certainly believe she is.
She is an American Eskimo Spitz and the breed is extremely vocal. She barks very loud at any sound at the door. As soon as my key goes into the lock she goes nuts.

It is annoying at times but I will not try to break her of it because I know that if someone attempts to enter my home when I am asleep, I will know about it very quickly.

She wouldn't be worth much to stop anyone, but she's great for notifying me that someone is around the house.
 
All mine have to do is alert me, I can do the rest. I have two little yappy dogs, (Chihuahua and Rat Terrier) and they never fail to bark when someone is at the door. (or in the yard, or walking on the sidewalk in front, etc.)
 
Most dogs will protect their "master" or members of their "pack", but not necessarily their home. About the only time my dogs will alert and jump up is when they hear a cheese wrapper being peeled open. THAT works every time. If they hear someone outside the door they only give a low down growl and won't even get up off the floor. If someone broke into my house they would probably just run over and start licking them in the hope that they may have some cheese on them. But if they give that growl and I hear it - like Gunny says - "somebody picked the wrong house". I actually would rather NOT have them bark every time they hear something outside. The growl works fine for me. Fortunately I am a very light sleeper.
 
Okay, untrained dogs are not a panacea.

If we can find a video of an alarm system not doing its job, then it is a panacea. We, we already know people forget to use them, opt not to respond to them, etc.

For home security, people often say to get a gun. How many times have we seen an untrained person with a gun that failed? What about trained folks?

Common sense must be applied in making security decisions.

Security needs to be layered. A gun, an alarm system a dog trained or untrained, none of them is the complete answer. They are all part of the answer. Security starts with the location of your home (some people might not have much choice with that due to job, familiy etc) and then goes to locks, glass, lighting and other physical security measures.
 
Really? Do you have a link to this research? In all my years in law enforcement I never heard of such a thing.

I kind of doubted that there were any such studies (I mean c'mon, it sounds like pure fiction), but after a couple searches it appears that there actually are.

Most of them appear to be culturally related studies to help people overcome their fear of dogs. Two names who appear are sociologist Elijah Anderson and Kevin Chapman, a clinical psychologist at the University of Louisville.

Their theories seem to revolve around the historical use of dogs in the past to attack certain racial groups and then the fear of those dogs being kept alive by the families and other community members after that.

https://psmag.com/the-people-who-are-scared-of-dogs-8fc86480e247#.kojjzdnqn

“Most people just tell me to get over it, as if it’s that easy,” said Sashana, a recent college grad. She hates when coworkers bring their dogs to work. “No one bothers to ask if anyone’s bothered by it.”

Sashana is black, and I asked her if she believed the commonly held stereotype that African Americans are more afraid of dogs than white people. “I wish that were true,” she replied, “because then I could go over to more of my friends’ houses.”

But sociologist Elijah Anderson did find some evidence of racial differences, at least among working-class whites and blacks. In his book Streetwise, about a diverse urban neighborhood in Philadelphia, he noticed that “many working-class blacks are easily intimidated by strange dogs, either on or off the leash.” He found that “as a general rule, when blacks encounter whites with dogs in tow, they tense up and give them a wide berth, watching them closely.”

Kevin Chapman, a clinical psychologist at the University of Louisville, noticed the same anxious behavior among many African Americans that Anderson found. Chapman also discovered that nobody had explicitly investigated the incidence of cynophobia in African American populations. So in 2008, he and several colleagues conducted the first of two studies looking at the prevalence of specific fears across racial groups.

Compared to non-Hispanic whites, they found that “African Americans in particular may endorse more fears and have higher rates of specific phobias” — particularly, of strange dogs. When we spoke, Chapman offered two possible reasons. First, many dogs in low-income urban areas are trained to be what he calls “you-better-stay-away-from-our-property” guards. Being wary of those dogs makes sense — many of them are scary. In addition, Chapman told me, there’s “the historical notion of what dogs have represented for black folks in America.” In the antebellum South, dogs were frequently used to capture escaped slaves (often by brutally mauling them), and during the civil rights era police dogs often attacked African Americans during marches or gatherings.

As Chapman and his colleagues wrote in their 2011 study, many African Americans were psychologically conditioned to fear dogs when the animals were used as tools of racial hostility toward the black community. That conditioned fear is transmittable through families, he explained, and has contributed hugely to a community-wide fear of canines.

But though it seems that African American history has fostered a fear of dogs among some blacks, cynophobia mostly affects people who are conditioned to fear dogs and are predisposed to anxiety. When coupled, Chapman explained, environmental conditioning and genetic predisposition are “powerful enough to make someone develop a significant or substantial clinical fear of anything.” And people who are that afraid — who have what Chapman calls “a legit phobia of dogs” — don’t discriminate between canines, regardless of how their fear is conditioned.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-color-anxiety/201111/my-momma-taught-me-how-fear
 
Last edited:
The belief that dogs belonging to whites will be hostile to blacks is almost universal among blacks here in the Deep South. From what I have seen over the years I'd say there is likely some truth to it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top