Shooting paratrooper .30 cal carbine

I've never fired a para model carbine - the only difference is whether or not you're comfortable with that wire stock...

As for Inland (new reproductions that have nothing to do with the original Inland carbines built over 70 years ago....). Go to any dedicated carbine forum (I'lll post a few below) and you'll find that there's not a lot to like about them.... understatement.... The internal components (particularly the receiver and bolt) aren't anywhere near what the original parts were all those years ago. As a result, there have been quite a few complaints about parts wearing very badly after just a few hundred rounds downrange... Just look up New Inland threads on any of the following forums....

m1 carbine forums.com
milsurps.com
the cmp forums. org

To add insult to injury most firearms magazines are perfectly willing to accept a manufacturer's press kit on a new weapon, publish it as though it were verified, and the general public gets lead up the garden path... heck, I even saw a puff piece on an American Rifleman show with not the slightest attempt to actually verify the claims made by the outfit that made them..... I guess everyone wants to work for the New York rags....

Here's the latest "New Inland" thread on milsurps.... You'll find others with a bit of research on other sites.....
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61634

I had a paratrooper stock for my Inland and sold it.

Great for jumping out of aircraft, not so great to shoot.

I can't imagine anyone being able to shoot one of those as well as a standard carbine.

I would agree.

Save your pennies for a "real" GI carbine....you will not be sorry. Yes they are getting up there in price, but real world reviews have not been kind to them.

I am amazed in this day and age a company cannot do an exact GI spec CNC repro of an M1 Carbine that is at least as good as a 70 YO original ! Astounding !

The stock on the M1A1 carbine (paratrooper model) doesn't have a positive lock when folded or opened- its just a friction lock. Also the butt plate is on a spring that kicks it to the side unless it is placed in the shoulder. Improper placement in the shoulder pocket may result in it not contacting the shooter's shoulder correctly.

Gordon said:

I am amazed in this day and age a company cannot do an exact GI spec CNC repro of an M1 Carbine that is at least as good as a 70 YO original ! Astounding !

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Too expensive to mfg. The rifle you want would cost $1500-2000. Who's going to pay that much for an outdated design that shoots an outdated cartridge? When the USGI rifles in VG condition reach that price in 5 years I expect you might see them.

Actually... Fulton Armory does a great all new carbine but of course it's right at $1400.... There was a press release this past year that a competitor set a new national carbine record in competition with one of their carbines.

Remember there's always that little profit factor to consider. If it could be done cheaply and still be first rate it would be....It has to be cheap if you expect them to stay in business.... Wish it weren't so but there it is....

Lots of people paying $1000 plus for USGI and in many cases much more.

1KPerDay said:

Lots of people paying $1000 plus for USGI and in many cases much more.

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Around here a rode hard and put away wet is around $1000.

An exact GI spec repro of an M1 Carbine was the Plainfield before IJ wrecked 'em. Plainfields are exact copies of the issue Carbine and can use all issue parts(not that you'd likely need any. Mines over 40 and I've done noting but give it a bath.)
The Para stock's pistol grip is not made for normal width hands(4"). The Inland weighs 5lbs. 3oz. pounds. A standard Carbine 5.8 pounds. Be the same except for the pistol grip being too small.
"...an outdated design that shoots an outdated cartridge..." Like a 1911A1 and the .45 ACP? Both over 100 years old.

Saw two beat up Carbines at a show this past weekend, $1250 and $1400. The guy with the $1400 one said it was expensive because it was "correct". I understand the concept of correct, but it still looked like crap.

I'm fortunate to have a WWII bring back, nice one that functions perfectly and looks good.

CoalTrain49 said:

I had a paratrooper stock for my Inland and sold it.

Great for jumping out of aircraft, not so great to shoot.

I can't imagine anyone being able to shoot one of those as well as a standard carbine.

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If I recall, those paratroopers who used the M1A1 version had them switched out to regular M1 carbines later on, as time and opportunity allowed. Or possibly to Garands as well. The collapsing stock only made it more convenient for the paratrooper to pack it along with everything else he had to carry.

I find the wire stock too flimsy for enjoyable shooting from the shoulder.

You can always buy the Inland with the conventional stock and then pick up a paratrooper stock (or something similar to it) and then when you feel like yelling, "Geronimo" and jumping out of an airplane, it's a simple matter of just loosening the barrel band and dropping the action in the new stock.

I have collected M1 Carbines for years. There are a few things I would tell anyone thinking of collecting these. First, the number of "paratrooper" carbines that are out there is pretty small. You should assume that anything called a paratrooper carbine is a fake put together by Bubba in his garage. This is a general rule, but generally true.

Second, some collectors, especially guy's trying to sell carbines at gun shows, will try and claim a carbine is "correct", meaning it has all parts by one particular manufacturer. This is unimportant to me, and should be unimportant to anyone who knows the history of the carbine. Not all manufacturers made all parts. Of the manufacturers who did, it was not unheard of for them to use small parts made by a different manufacturer. In other words, many carbines left the factory with mismatched parts.

Third, when a carbine was re-arsenaled, no attempt was made to keep all the parts original. Everything got mixed up.

So if you see an all original, correct M1 Carbine at a gun show, the chances are that it was made that way by Bubba in a garage pulling parts of one manufacturer's gun and putting them on another til he got all the parts matching.

Very few carbines that saw military service should have parts by only one manufacturer.

Sunray said:

An exact GI spec repro of an M1 Carbine was the Plainfield before IJ wrecked 'em. Plainfields are exact copies of the issue Carbine and can use all issue parts(not that you'd likely need any. Mines over 40 and I've done noting but give it a bath.)
The Para stock's pistol grip is not made for normal width hands(4"). The Inland weighs 5lbs. 3oz. pounds. A standard Carbine 5.8 pounds. Be the same except for the pistol grip being too small.
"...an outdated design that shoots an outdated cartridge..." Like a 1911A1 and the .45 ACP? Both over 100 years old.

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The A1 didn't come around until 1924, but I get your point. The 30 carbine as a cartridge is next to dead. It isn't practical as a hunting cartridge and the military gave up on it about 50 years ago. The 30 carbine is nothing more than a piece of nostalgia these days. I certainly wouldn't compare it to a 1911 and 45 ACP. Some things are just more useful than others and have a longer life span.

I fully appreciate the carbine for what it is and the history behind it. If I didn't I wouldn't own and shoot one. I also know what it's limits are. It's neither a useful pistol cartridge or a rifle cartridge.

What about the M1 made by auto ordnance how do they compare?

CoalTrain49 said:

The A1 didn't come around until 1924, but I get your point. The 30 carbine as a cartridge is next to dead. It isn't practical as a hunting cartridge and the military gave up on it about 50 years ago. The 30 carbine is nothing more than a piece of nostalgia these days. I certainly wouldn't compare it to a 1911 and 45 ACP. Some things are just more useful than others and have a longer life span.

I fully appreciate the carbine for what it is and the history behind it. If I didn't I wouldn't own and shoot one. I also know what it's limits are. It's neither a useful pistol cartridge or a rifle cartridge.

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It is useful now for the same thing it was useful for 60 years ago, i.e., handgun level effectiveness but easier to shoot accurately.

Well I can't say anything about a M1 Carbine Para stock but I have shot AKs with underfolders and fixed stocks (owned them both.)

The ONLY reason for the folder is pure compactness. The fixed stocks are way ahead if you want to hit something.

I suspect with the M1 Carbine it is the same way.

Deaf

The paratrooper M1A1 stock is right-handed shooter friendly but left handed shooter hateful.

I have the M2 stock that came on my IBM 1943 M1 Carbine Korean return, a Ramline sporter stock, and an Italian repro M1A1 folder.

My folder's function benefited from strictly following the instructions in the U.S. Army/U.S.Air Force tech manual on disassembly, inspection, and reassembly. It is a challenge to shoot at the standard 100yd bullseye target using the folder, but it looks cool and was easy to carry on an ATV.

My son rated the M1A1 folder stock as the most un-ergonomic stock he ever tried.

CoalTrain49 said:

When the USGI rifles in VG condition reach that price in 5 years I expect you might see them

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Uh, they already have.

Just two weeks ago I saw Kprean reimports at the Allen show for $1350 for an Inland, and $1500 for a Winchester--both of those mixmasters run through two nation's rebuild process. And both wearing import stamps.

I have not see a legit "war baby" in collectable condition since 2008, and those were going $800-900 then. Ones like the ones I saw in Allen were going for $300-350.

Now, you are quite correct in stating that machining steel to the 1943 standards used by IBM or National Postal meter or Standard hardware would be ludicrously expensive. I'd cocncur that the wholesale factor FOB cost would be near two grand, which would make MSRP probably around three.

CapnMac said:

Uh, they already have.

Just two weeks ago I saw Kprean reimports at the Allen show for $1350 for an Inland, and $1500 for a Winchester--both of those mixmasters run through two nation's rebuild process. And both wearing import stamps.

I have not see a legit "war baby" in collectable condition since 2008, and those were going $800-900 then. Ones like the ones I saw in Allen were going for $300-350.

Now, you are quite correct in stating that machining steel to the 1943 standards used by IBM or National Postal meter or Standard hardware would be ludicrously expensive. I'd cocncur that the wholesale factor FOB cost would be near two grand, which would make MSRP probably around three.

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I'm not getting my prices from gun shows. I buy and sell parts and rifles occasionally on the CMP forum. I watch the asking and selling prices there. A non-import Inland in good condition (original wood with <2.0 ME) can get $1000. A Winchester maybe $1500.

People sometimes set a ridiculous price hoping some fool will part with his money. Were those asking prices or did you actually see them sell? Gun shows are a lot like gunbroker. Most of the stuff never sells.

I have an Auto Ordinance Paratrooper M1 Carbine. I figured it would be the only way I could afford one to go along with my USGI carbines.

It looks like a carbine and shoots like a carbine. The wire stock is hard on my shoulder for some reason. It just does not fit my shoulder well is hits some tender areas wrong. The butt plate is a bit larger than a standard carbine stock and a flat profile.

I can understand why some paratroopers would trade out their paratrooper stocks/carbines for standard versions once they stopped jumping out of airplanes.

Its funny how a "need" was identified for that wire folder on a weapon that was already pretty short with a standard stock in order to hurl oneself out of an airplane. There was no shortage of paratroopers in WW2 jumping with Garands, BAR's, 1919A6 MG's, 60 mm mortars, etc. Once the WW2 era weapons were phased out, we jumped anything and everything the Army issued, weapons-wise. I personally static line jumped every standard issue small arm (and a few non-standard ones) from the VN era to present except the M240 (jumped a M60 a few times though). I have free fall jumped only M4 and sniper systems. I do know guys who have done free fall jumps with M240's and even the Gustav recoiless rifle.The 82nd guys used to jump dragon anti tank missiles. I guess my point is to the best of my knowledge, since WW2 no weapon or variant was adopted for the purpose of making it more easy to jump.

I believe the preference in armorer rebuild in WWII, Korean War and Vietnam War, was to replace the M1A1 stock if damaged with an M2 stock and if that was not available an M1 stock.

A percentage of the Carbines originally issued with M1A1 stocks (all were Inland manufature) ended up in M1 or M2 stocks by the time the Carbine was replaced by the M16 in the mid-1960s. An original Inland in its original M1A1 stock is rare and the collector prices show it. And fakes are common out there.