300 blackout ar-15 yes or no

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theboyscout

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Do you hunt with a 300 blackout, is it an effective round or not?

If so what round do you use, what's it's affective range, and what's the biggest game can you take?

Feel free to tag photos and ranges you took the game at. Please and thank you.

If there are any specs that are important to have in your ar rifle to be affective please share those too.
 
This has been asked a few times, and usually ignites a heated conversation because many see the .300 blk as a fad/novelty/plinking round with no real application outside of very specific military situations where being able to switch between super/sub is important.

With that being said, I do hunt whitetail in the Tidewater region of VA with .300 blk. I'm comfortable with it out to 100 yds using handloads but prefer closer of course. .300 blk can work well for deer this size (75-160-ish lbs), but even I consider it marginal because it is picky on shot placement and most commercially loaded ammo won't expand reliably.

Shooting 110gr Barnes TAC-TX bullets over H-110 near maximum pressure. This bullet is designed for the velocities you can expect from a .300 blk, expands well, and retains its weight. It can be bought commercially loaded to similar specifications. Nosler makes a 220gr round nose bullet that is supposed to expand at subsonic velocities, but I haven't tried it, nor can I find any reliable information on it. There are various boutique bullets (more than $1/ea for the bullets themselves) available from places like Lehigh Defense as well.

12186551_10105679329001088_7677397423792516615_o.jpg


I've contemplated getting a 1-4x scope for this gun, but use it more for subsonic plinking and like the EOTech.

Right at 100 yards, DRT. Shot from a stand with a rest.
15625583_10107349758307368_1844198436929965416_o.jpg

25 yds, ended up running about 100 yards. Shot from a stand with a rest.
15171325_10107218313768278_841326296040439526_n.jpg

30 yds, DRT. Gun was configured as a pistol while I waited for the Form 1 to be approved. Shot from a stand, no rest. Recovered bullet above was from this deer.
11236429_10105779824113078_2018317697363853416_o.jpg
 
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Do you hunt with a 300 blackout, is it an effective round or not?

I started shooting and hunting with the 300 Whisper before AAC was even a company. I had been watching JD for several years on other cartridges, and as a fan of all things suppressed, I took interest in the 300 Whisper when he started playing in it. But JD has proven to be his own worst enemy, and AAC had an opportunity to capitalize on that fact in launching the identical Blackout. I have a barrel for 300 blk rifle, which has since been converted to another cartridge, as well as a pistol/SBR upper in the BLK, which doesn't see as much use as my other SBR/pistol uppers in other cartridges.

Asking whether a round is "effective" or not is very open ended - you have cartridge performance on one side, and application demand on the other. If those two balance, then it's effective for the application, if they don't, then it's not. So the answer to this portion of the question is, "it can be effective for certain tasks, but is not effective for others." The same can be said for any cartridge.

There are real limitations for the 300blk which limit its effectiveness for different applications... I will say, the limitations are such, I don't really have interest in hunting with it. I'll take a 6.8SPC short barrel over a 300blk for whitetails.

If so what round do you use[?]

I tend to go cheap in my bullet choices, and haven't had any issue in doing so yet. The 110 Vmax and the 208 A-max, now ELD-M are cheap and easy to find. I load the 208 in practice 300wm loads also, so I get to do a little inventory sharing.

The TSX is a great hog and deer bullet, but like any of the monometals, it's prohibitively expensive for much volume use unless you're forced to use non-leads. I'm not, so I save money with other bullets.

[W]hat's it's affective range[?]

Effective range is going to vary with game animal, as it doesn't take as much to kill a bunny as it does a bear. If you're just killing paper, with the right optic and mount, a guy can cast it out to 1,000yrds with the super-sonic 110ish weight bullets. It drops transsonic around 500-600, depending on your bullet and barrel length (shorter in a pistol/SBR, of course), so at 1,000yrds, you gotta have a pretty dang big target.

[W]hat's the biggest game can you take?

At short enough ranges, the Blackout will kill any animal on the planet. Functionally, I'd cap it at deer, but I expect guys have, or will take baited bear and elk (at very short ranges) with it. I wouldn't say a guy has to cap it at "small bodied deer," but it certainly doesn't hurt to keep a conservative mindset with it.

It's really a 0-200yrd (for an experienced shooter) coyote, deer, & hog cartridge. It's too much bullet for game smaller than coyotes, although it could be used, and again, it's not packing enough power for bear or elk, although it could be used... A wrench could also be used to drive a nail, but that does not mean a wrench is the right tool for the job.

The challenge becomes the particular combination of high bullet diameter & weight, low velocity, and low sectional density. A 243win 110grn bullet will penetrate much better than a 300blk, even at the same velocity, due to the low sectional density of the 30cal pill, which limits the effective range of the 300 relative to its velocity - which is already low. To boost the sectional density, hunting of bigger game tends to be done with the heavy bullets, which gives better anchoring power to the bullet, but also robs you of even more velocity.

With the sub-sonics, you're talking about a 25fps ES meaning a difference of ~5" POI shift at 300yrds, and you're dropping somewhere around an inch per yard, so mis-judging by 3 yards might mean a vertical spread of 11". Not a reliable round for 300yrd shooting of game. A guy will connect on smaller targets than that, don't get me wrong, but just considering what it really means to run a sub-sonic bullet out there t0 300yrds is pretty heavy.

The lighter, supersonic bullets are still enough for deer, but they don't pack the momentum of the heavier bullets, so you're running out of power at range, even though the trajectory is easier to manage. At 300yrds, the 110's Taylor Factor is down to 7.7, whereas the 208 is hanging on to 10% more at 8.4. Might not seem like much, but remember, a lowly 243win is hanging onto 8.7 at 300yrds, a .30-06 is carrying 15.5, and a 45-70 is still touting 21.3 at 300... Really consider how well you want to anchor your game, vs how much you enjoy tracking. At shorter ranges, the 300blk has a lot of anchoring power COMPARED TO OTHER AR CARTRIDGES, but it's still an AR cartridge... No matter how many horsepower you pack into a Honda Civic, it'll never pull a semi-trailer like a Peterbilt.

Kinetic Energy doesn't mean much - it's the momentum (taylor factor = momentum x bullet dia) which really makes the difference on impact, and the 300blk just doesn't pack a very big lunchbox.

If there are any specs that are important to have in your ar rifle to be affective please share those too.

Pick your poison. If you're hunting, you'll want a free floating handguard, enough scope to select a perfect POA, a good enough trigger to not screw yourself, a long enough barrel to get the bullet up to a respectable speed AND to let you properly stabilize the rifle, and a scope with finger adjustments or a milling reticle to let you hold on POA, not holding over in space. If you keep shots under 150yrds, really under 150, life gets a lot easier.
 
I would suggest you take the top 4 or 5 AR calibers and put a ballistic comparative side by side with premium hunting ammo.
Then look for energy, trajectory and speed.

AR cartriges are limited by the real state but like any other hunting caliber their effectiveness is determined by:

-Speed at impact
-Sectional density (Bore/grain ratio)
-Trajectory/Accuracy
-Bullet construction (terminal performance)

You want to do well in as many of those areas as you can.
Good hunting cartridges, like many popular proven ones, are most effective when they fall within the following parameters:

- Impact speeds 2,100fps or above avg. ... higher percentage of hydrostatic shock.
- Impact speeds 1,800fps or above avg. ... most premium bullets solids or bonded work best above this impact speed
to assure plenty of wounding potential. Some can go as low as 1,600fps but then you don't see broad wounding anymore
and in complex angles and tricky shots this is risking too much.
- Sectional density of .2 and above is desirable...
- Many publications suggest 1000ft-lb of energy at impact as minimum but I think this is subjective. I think it is a good
number but one must also consider the type of animal, weight and match caliber and bullets to type of game and weight.
- As we increase bore and we get into 35, 375 and even 458, 50 then we might compensate slower impact speeds
with grain and more momentum but always consider manufacture's recommendations.
- Many prefer fast and accurate cartridges. Time to target and trajectory is very important when game is running.

In terms of the whisper/blackout I think that it is great for subsonic but in the supersonic world it falls short. There is not case capacity to do much.
It doesn't score great in many of the departments discussed above.

I think the 6.8 SPC is one that is simple, reliable and works great to hunt with certain authority.
 
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I think the 6.8 SPC is one that is simple, reliable and works great to hunt with certain authority.

I agree - the mid-bores (for the AR) are really where the hunting performance lies. The 6.8spc, 25-45 sharps, 6.5 grendel, 243 LBC, 6-6.8, 6x45, 7 Raptor, 7 Valkyrie (sucks making that brass!), etc in that middle ground seem to optimize the cartridge for hunting game. They have enough bullet weight to get the job done at range, but not yet so heavy they run out of case capacity to get them up to sufficient speeds.

The 223/5.56 will achieve a lot more than guys give it credit, but there's only so much which can be accomplished by a 22cal bullet - however, at the other end of the spectrum, there's a point of diminishing returns where more and more bullet diameter and weight starts robbing you of versatility. They all have their place, but if you're looking for a general purpose hunting and defense rifle, these 6-7mm cartridges are the ticket.
 
Will be about the same as a .30-30. Maybe a little weaker depending on load.

Originally it was designed to reach full velocity at 9 inches of barrel (or somewhere around there). So I wouldn't mind "pistol hunting" with a 300blk AR pistol.

If not running a can, I'd go lighter and faster over heavier and slower for no other reason besides opinion.
 
I have a 300 BLK. I've shot a few hogs with it, but only a few, and so far they've dropped. But I make an effort to get pretty close (definitely less than 100 yards) before shooting.
I also have an AR-10, and although it's a lot heavier, I use it for longer range hog hunting. The 300 BLK is fine for night hunting when stalking up close or shooting over bait.
For hunting a field full of hogs and hoping to hit and drop a few on the run, I recommend something other than a 300 BLK. I also recommend something other than a .223, so there!
I got the Blackout because I have access to fired 5.56 brass which I can convert to 300 BLK for free. If ammo cost isn't the prime driver I'd suggest, as others have, looking at a 6.8 SPC or a 6.5 Grendel.
 
Will be about the same as a .30-30. Maybe a little weaker depending on load.

Hi Jeeper,
Not sure where you learned this. I think we need to be careful with what we read online.

A 30-30 can push a 180gr-190gr bullet at comparable speed to what the 7.62x39 can push a 150gr bullet.
That is the similar speed a whisper/blackout can push a 125gr bullet that even at the muzzle is at the low end spectrum of ideal impact speed.

In similar way, if we take that 110gr TTTSX a 308 winchester can push that bullet 1000-1100 fps faster (3400fps) than the whisper blackout.
The 30-30 can push the same bullet to 2800fps that is 400-500 fps faster than whisper.
The 7.62x39 in a hybrid camber can push that 110gr to 2600fps that is 200-250fps faster than the whisper blackout.

Among others you can visit Barnes and Hodgdon reloading manuals for reference in order to verify this.

These are significant differences in trajectory and performance so under no context nor situation should they be compared. It is true the 7.62x39
and whisper are in the same family both AR15 compatible but if we are going to hunt we should consider them and compare them at their
full potential and using premium ammo and/or brass and bullets for any of them.

Same thing with the 223/5.56. We should not compare to budget 55gr FMJs and instead hunting performance ammo or reloads in the 60-80gr range.

This is a good example of good hunting ammunition. The whisper/blackout cannot even begin to compare.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=222
 
Also regarding supressors and short barrels...
Suppressors work also great with supersonic ammunition of any kind. It is a bit snappier and louder but a good suppressor will do wonders.
A barrel below 12-14" doesn't make a lot of sense in any caliber, not even the 9mm where the full performance is reached at that barrel length.
In any case, a number of pisol calibers perform much better for hunting with a pistol vs the whisper or even the 7.62x39.
small caliber light-for-caliber bullets should be reserved for close range or longer range in hyper velocity cartridges like those for varmint.
Many of the varmint bullets fall in that light-for-caliber category.
The 6.8 is also superior in shorter barrels but IMO if one is going to hunt with a pistol one should think about sending some serious grain
and perhaps more section. For CBQ many will do a good job as soon as there is no hard barrier and armour involved. Here is where the
5.56 and 6.8 are kings. Speed is the only answer. But anyway, this has nothing to do with hunting.
In hunting we want to maximize terminal performance at the distance with premium hunting bullets so I suggest 16 and 18" carbines
that are still very handy and will give that additional performance.
If one wants really short barrels I suggest a heavy hitter like 300 gr of a socom or 400gr of a Beowulf launched at 1600fps.

I think we need to think about the bullet first, hopefully a good one. The bullet is all that matters.
And then look for a casing that can launch that bullet at decent speeds and with sufficient sectional density and energy. Also good construction.
 
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Varminterror and 1st Marine, not sure what I said that disagrees with either of your points other than looking for a reason to correct someone.

I said "about" the same as a .30-30 and "maybe a little weaker in most loads". This is all true. Maybe I should have said, "should be used in the same capacity as a .30-30" meaning that it is decent for medium sized game and under at ranges up to 100 yards or so. Yes, velocity and energy are under both the 30-30 and the 300blk's rival the x39 IN MOST LOADS. But the 300blk has the advantage of premium bullets from many manufacturers. That can make up a little distance.

Hornady has some loads right now that are getting around 1300 ftlbs with GMX bullets advertised for game up to 300 pounds. Underwood has 125gr ammo that gets around 1400 ftlbs. That Buffalo Bore 30-30 ammo is around 1800 ftlbs. Light 30-30 ammo gets 1400 ftlbs. That's in a similar neighborhood.

Yes, there are better cartridges in the AR platform than the 300blk. But I was answering the first part of OP's question with it being an effective round. Yes. It can be. Like many others.
 
Hornady has some loads right now that are getting around 1300 ftlbs with GMX bullets advertised for game up to 300 pounds.

Hi JeeperCreeper,
Sorry for the comments but they are done in good faith and to dispel any confusion about these two cartriges that for some inexplicable reason they are often compared.
The way I understood it was the 30-30 could be compared or something. Perhaps Varminterror saw it like this too.

Regarding hornady's loads nobody is able to get those speeds and most likely because hornady is testing them with 24" barrels and nobody uses 24" barrels for the whisper/blackout.
It is on their website here... https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-blackout-110-gr-gmx-full-boar#!/

Regarding the 30-30 Hornady's star load is the 160gr FTX that is a milder load than buffalo bore but in any case it has more energy at momentum at 200 yards than the GMX whisper/blackout
at the muzzle. So that is why not even the milder 30-30 loads should be compared. Plus even if they were at the same speed one cannot compare the additional momentum and
trauma of a 160gr to 180gr flat metplat. Energy alone is not representative and at the muzzle means nothing, I mean unless one shoots the animal right at 1ft of distance or less.
This is why the 30-30 has been such reliable meat gatherer for generations.
The load can also be found here... https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/30-30-win-160-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

To make the 30-30 shoot a 110gr bullet as slow as the whisper/blackout will be a complex project as I am not sure what powder charge with that case volume would provide something safe to shoot.

I hope this makes sense.
 
I have one but have better rounds to hunt with, even in an AR 15's. If it was all I had, I bet I could figure out how to kill anything I needed to with it though.
 
Varminterror and 1st Marine, not sure what I said that disagrees with either of your points

This:

Will be about the same as a .30-30. Maybe a little weaker depending on load.

Because it's NOT true. "About the same" and "maybe a little weaker" <-- implying not always or optionally so.

I said "about" the same as a .30-30 and "maybe a little weaker in most loads". This is all true.

Again, no, it is NOT true.

Maybe I should have said, "should be used in the same capacity as a .30-30" meaning that it is decent for medium sized game and under at ranges up to 100 yards or so.

Yes, you should have said this instead, as it's at least a little more accurate - except both can confidently be used past 100yrds. I'm very confident and comfortable in the 300blk/whisper out to 200 on deer of any body weight, and I've used the 30-30 on deer to 250yrds since the late 1990's. But yes, both are short range deer cartridges (recognizing, short range is 0-300).

In an 18" barrel, I can get 150's in 300blk to about 2000fps in my hottest loads, more realistically a 1950fps benchmark. With a 20" 336, I'm pushing them up over 2300fps without breaking a sweat. I run 170's at 2200fps as a bread and butter load, you're not going to touch that with a 300blk. The Blackout is a ~24grn H2O case, the 30-30 is a ~45grn H2O case - as they say in racing, "there's no replacement for displacement." In mild factory loads, the 30-30 can be much more humdrum than in handloads, but even without going over book, the 30-30 leaves the 300blk in the dust, about as bad as the 30-06 leaves the 30-30 - would you say the 30-30 and 30-06 are about the same, maybe a little weaker depending upon load? When you're talking 300fps gap, 15%, that's over 30% more energy, and in that realm of cartridges, it makes a big difference.

Sure, if a guy picks a light 30-30 load and compares it to a primer flattening Blackout load, everything looks great, right? There's a stretch of highway near me which is nice and flat, wide open, but has a 40mph speed limit. On a good day when I'm really pumping, I can top 40MPH on my triathlon bike, a Specialized Shiv. But hey - I can only drive my F-150 at 40mph, so my bike and my F-150 are about the same, and maybe my bike's a little slower on some days...

Guys used to say the same thing about the x39 and the .30-30, and it wasn't true about the x39 either. It's in the same boat - about 35grn H2O capacity, and it only keeps up with milder loads of .30-30 as well - but also can handily walk away from the 300blk in its own right. I run a 150SST at 2150 in my SKS's - again around 175fps behind the 30-30, and about 200fps in front of the 300blk.

It sure sounds great to make such short and sweet statements, but when it doesn't even remotely represent reality, a lie is still a lie.
 
It sure sounds great to make such short and sweet statements, but when it doesn't even remotely represent reality, a lie is still a lie.

Lie? No Maury, not a lie.

A .308 has case capacity of 56 grH20, and a .30-06 has a 68 grH20. A .30-06 can beat the .308 by more than 100fps and carry more than 200-300ftlbs depending on load. But most people won't argue that the aren't in the same class. Heck, there's a big difference between the 270 and 7mm-08, but they are compared all the time too. Yeah, the ratio will be closer on the high end, but it's the same for the 30-30, x39, and 300BLK. They are in the same class of medium game, .30 caliber rifle cartridges. Yes, a 30-30 packs more punch. But the only thing identical to a 30-30 is a 30-30. Would I use a 30-30 for moose with proper loads? Yes. Would I use a 300BLK? No. But for your average whitetail or blackbear, they won't know the difference.

Edit: and as far as cars, a V6 ford rangers vs a small v8 f150 might be a better comparison. A tuned up v6 can run with a mediocre v8. Just ask Ford and their ecoboost... its more than just displacement. It's about platform and details.
 
300blk is closer to, about the same as the 7.62x39...;)

I also see this comment from time to time and it is not a fair nor accurate assessment.

It is true that both work from AR15 and can use similar bullets when you take a high performance whisper/blackout ammo
compared to the cheap steel ammo so popular with the x39, the x39 can still produce 150-200fps more with the typical 123gr-125gr bullets.
But if you take x39 high performance ammo, it puts the x39 half way between the 30-30 and the whisper.

The 300 whisper / blackout has a case capacity of 25gr avg. and can be pushed to 62kpsi with hard brass.
The 7.62x39 has 35-36gr avg. capacity and is listed to 51.5k psi CIP and with lapua, winchester, fio, etc.. brass will gladly take 56-58kpsi w/o ill effects.

There is an extra 10-11gr case capacity for the x39, high performance ammo and great brass choices for the x39 so it is impossible for a case
with that much difference in capacity to produce similar results. The x39 is also capable of great accuracy with a quality rifle like a nice AR
or a bolt action like the wonderful CZ carbine.

The x39 can launch a 150-155gr bullet to similar speeds the whisper can launch a 125gr that makes a substantial difference for hunting.
Some are expensive but you also have affordable choices in steel cased ammo...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/7-62x39mm-gel-test-tula-154-gr-soft-point.765338/

Whether is heavier bullets, short barrels, subsonic, the x39 does great in all those areas. I think this article by Zak Smith, founder of this forum, provides a
pretty good analysis of the x39 and its amazing possibilities...

http://demigodllc.com/articles/7.62x39-improving-the-military-standard/
 
A guy needs to remember to either mean what they say, or say what they mean. And if you make a flippant quick comment which comes out wrong, and someone comes back in kind, it's easy enough to just own that and THEN say what you mean, instead of getting so personally offended.

"About the same as a .30-30, maybe a little weaker depending on load." Is a lie.

If you didn't mean it that way, then fine. But you SAID it that way. And then you got offended when 1stmarine and I called you on it - which we did because it deserved to be called out.

I had an ecoboost, have put over a million miles on 5.0's. You can't sell me on those being "almost the same, maybe a little weaker in some models" either. When I strap a stock trailer on the tail and haul 9 head of 1800lb bulls, that punch off of the line the Ecoboosters brag about tails off REALLY fast compared to the V8.

But if a guy is parking on the culdesac and commuting to work, sure, neither of them will be at their top end, so both work great. For hunting deer at 200yrds or less, sure, both the .300blk or .30-30 will answer said question.

But you didn't say that - you said the loads were about the same. Which isn't true, so I commented that it is not. So you didn't mean what you said - that's great, don't get so offended when someone calls you on it. Say what you mean, or mean what you said, and don't be a snowflake. Life is pretty simple.
 
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@Varminterror, @JeeperCreeper
The way I see it is a honest mistake because we find this type of comments all over the place including magazines and even professional publications.
I know firearms enthusiasts we are pretty opinionated and we defend our favorite firearms and calibers with whatever it takes, I like that but personally and moving forward,
I much prefer a positive and collaborative approach. There is too much negativity online and in this world already to be arguing over simple things.
We pull the data out and we study the case and perhaps we all learn something.
Like and old wise samurai once said... the day I stop learning, that day I die.
 
Agreed - we all make honest mistakes. Just gotta own up and admit the mistake, not get so personally offended about being corrected.
 
The 300 BA will kill stuff. It is a step DOWN from 223 in performance. The better modern 223 bullets will shoot all the way through most deer size game out to 200 ish yards and give good expansion. They will kill deer size game farther.

The 300 BA's problem is finding bullets that will work at the velocities it is shot. The heavier 200 gr bullets don't leave the muzzle with enough velocity to reliably expand. Much less expand at 50-100 yards If you want to trust basically a FMJ on deer that is what you get. The lighter sub 150 gr bullets are designed to expand rapidly for varmint hunting, not big game hunting. This is the major complaint with 223 when used with lightweight varmint bullets.

That leaves the mid weights around 150 gr that are designed to expand at 1800-2000 fps. They are in that zone for 100 yards at most before they slow to the point where you won't get expansion.
 
A guy needs to remember to either mean what they say, or say what they mean... [snip]... personally offended... [snip] ...Is a lie...[snip] ...got offended...[snip] ...So you didn't mean what you said...[snip] ...get so offended...[snip] ...Say what you mean, or mean what you said... [snip] ...don't be a snowflake.

Whoa there guy... in no way am I getting offended over a forum conversation... you're the one saying I'm lying and calling me a snowflake and trying to "win" a conversation. I would find that ironic as you're arguing with me and I'm agreeing with you. We just disagree on the nuances of perspective.

Just gotta own up and admit the mistake

So I 100% agree with you or else I'm 100% wrong. Varm, you consistently give great advice on this forum, many on my own threads, but I feel like there is a debate here when there doesn't need to be. I made a broad statement. Got called on it. I clarified and stand behind everything I typed. Don't know why that got all personal...
 
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