danez71
Member
Within that class of size and intended purpose, a comparison makes perfect sense.
S&W finally did wht most of us thought with the Shield
- Thread starter george burns
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Within that class of size and intended purpose, a comparison makes perfect sense.
MachIVshooter
Member
Well, you're chock full of opinions, that much is certain. Bit short on reason, though. There are plenty of us who choose a carry gun (or any handgun) without ever thinking of a Glock in any capacity. Just because you believe that everybody has experience with and a tendency toward the G19 doesn't make it so. The F150 is a popular pick up, but someone who is shopping for a compact, a diesel, or who just doesn't care for Ford isn't going to consider it nor judge everything else by it.
Bought one when they first came out. Put in an Apex sear and a set of Meprolite sights. Nice shooter bit for me kind of an in-betweener. It was too large for pocket carry and if I was going OWB, I wanted more capacity. Sold the Shield for $400 and use my PM9 for pocket or IWB and Sigs for OWB.
The 2 oz less wt. would have made no difference to me, it was the size vs. capacity that became the issue.
The 2 oz less wt. would have made no difference to me, it was the size vs. capacity that became the issue.
Do you even read the self important garbage you type? Typical keyboard warrior.
You can pretend the G19 isn't a very common pistol that most people have some familiarity with, which makes it a reasonable point of comparison. That's not a "belief;" that's a fact, unlike your autistic screeching.
gc70
Member
The G19 is the standard among Glocks; not everyone cares for Glocks.
It makes sense to a couple of million Shield purchasers.
MachIVshooter
Member
And there it is. When you can't present a respectable, reasoned argument, just resort to insults. It was expected, though, from someone who feels the need to post a gripe thread about a gun they aren't even interested in just because the new version is not being sold at the deep discounts of the previous generation it is replacing.
By all means, continue your rant about how a for-profit manufacturing company is horrible for trying to (gasp!) turn a profit, and everyone should just buy a Glock because Glock.
I'm not a big fan either, I'm just saying they serve as a common standard for size, weight, capacity among carry pistols. A 1911 can also serve as a "standard" too, but less so for concealed carry.
JohnBiltz
Member
If you don't think a G19 is a standard your wrong. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not. Its a standard because pretty much everyone knows what it is, its been around for a long time and its popular. Its what things get compared to. I'm not so sure its what a Shield gets compared to though. Pretty big size difference there.
MachIVshooter
Member
A standard, not the standard. Again, there is no shortage of folks who never give it a thought when pistol shopping. Much to the chagrin of Glock aficionados, there is a huge chunk of the gun owning and buying population who have never handled or fired a G19, and plenty more who have and don't like it.
That was the point. Trying to make a value comparison between very different things is nonsensical. The G19 is a (large) compact, the Shield 9 a slender coat pocket sized single stack gun. You compare the Shield to the Kel-Tec PF9, the G43, XDS 9 3.3, Ruger LC9S and other sub-compact/micro single stack guns in it's class.
First you call the whole thread silly. Then you say I'm short on reason because you disagree with my opinion. Now your claiming I'm the one who started resorting to personal attacks. Wow.
I guess you're right though, just because you led with insults doesn't mean I should follow suit. You got me.
Re-read who said what in this thread. I'm not the one griping about their price. I was engaged in a simple discussion about the new shield vs the old shield.
gc70
Member
Did you not understand "The G19 is the standard among Glocks ..."
Oh yeah, there are other standards.
MachIVshooter
Member
My mistake, but an easy one to make when you respond to something directed at the OP, and with the same tone set by him.
It is silly, and telling you you're short on reason when you demonstrate that to be the case in a debate isn't an insult; it's an observation.
See your own post, #24. Page one doesn't cease to exist just because you want the narrative to be that I started the hostilities. Nice try, though.
What's the beef? And who didn't see it coming when they started moving inventory like that.
Yep. I bought a Shield, it is exactly what I wanted, a smaller/thinner pistol. I have plenty of medium/full sized pistols. If it doesn't make sense to someone to give up some capacity to get a smaller thinner gun, then don't do it, and you don't have to understand or agree with why someone else does. Oh, and I have an 9MM EMP as well. Smaller/thinner/less capacity. And I have my 3" 1911 that holds 6 .45 ACP and am comfortable with it.
If I am in the mood to carry my full sized XDM 19 round 9MM I can, but I have a choice. I sometimes carry my .32 Seecamp, and no one has to understand or agree with why I am comfortable with it.
You can't compare the Shield and others like it to bigger guns, they meet two different criteria.
Hey Mach, I was trying to defend the discussion by addressing your opinion that the thread is silly. But in the process I derailed the thread into a bickering match between you and I. Apologies to the op.
I agree that there are more apt comparisons in the single stack, subcompact class. But the shield is on the heavier side in that class, which makes me think, "ok, if I'm considering a 20oz single stack shield, why wouldn't I consider a double stack that's close at least when empty?" G19 and G26 come to mind for me because for me a shield is a "belt gun" that's just a bit easier to carry iwb than a double stack, but too tall and heavy for pocket carry.
I agree that there are more apt comparisons in the single stack, subcompact class. But the shield is on the heavier side in that class, which makes me think, "ok, if I'm considering a 20oz single stack shield, why wouldn't I consider a double stack that's close at least when empty?" G19 and G26 come to mind for me because for me a shield is a "belt gun" that's just a bit easier to carry iwb than a double stack, but too tall and heavy for pocket carry.
I find the shield itself zero prints when IWB. I have a couple of slightly thicker pistols (taurus pt111 g2 mill pro) that does slightly print. Other people might not notice it, but I do. In most places it doesn't matter. Places like communist Denver where I find myself occasionally it might matter.
danez71
Member
McDonald's is "a" standard.
Should they be use as the standard to compare all other burgers too?
Not if you want a meaningful comparison.
Should they be use as the standard to compare all other burgers too?
Not if you want a meaningful comparison.
Old Dog
Member
So, returning to the OP:
First, he never attempted to document his statement that the new models "from first reports not an improvement over the original." Having extensively T&E'ed both versions, I would submit that the new models contain noticeable improvements over what was already a worthy sub-compact pistol designed for concealed carry or in a back-up role.
As far as the company's pricing model, meh. Nothing new here.
Finally, as numerous others have already noted, the Shield is intended for a particular niche, which doesn't lend itself whatsoever to comparison to pistols marketed as duty pistols.
As a side note, having served in the military and law enforcement my entire adult life (38 years total), the number of people in the "gun community" I've met, been stationed/assigned with, trained with, and am still in touch with, etc., probably numbers well over a thousand ... and I know that of those folks a great number of them have never owned, contemplated owning, or even shot a Glock 19, yet they all have extensive experience with any number of other firearms, so attempting to illustrate that this pistol is "the standard" is a non-starter in my book. Glock is only "the standard" to those who would chose this platform over any other pistol (those who are forced to because that's what their employer issues or those who buy one as their entry-level gun because it's the only name they recognize).
... and I'm still wondering what point the OP is attempting to make. And he's not checked back in to comment on the state of his thread ...
First, he never attempted to document his statement that the new models "from first reports not an improvement over the original." Having extensively T&E'ed both versions, I would submit that the new models contain noticeable improvements over what was already a worthy sub-compact pistol designed for concealed carry or in a back-up role.
As far as the company's pricing model, meh. Nothing new here.
Finally, as numerous others have already noted, the Shield is intended for a particular niche, which doesn't lend itself whatsoever to comparison to pistols marketed as duty pistols.
As a side note, having served in the military and law enforcement my entire adult life (38 years total), the number of people in the "gun community" I've met, been stationed/assigned with, trained with, and am still in touch with, etc., probably numbers well over a thousand ... and I know that of those folks a great number of them have never owned, contemplated owning, or even shot a Glock 19, yet they all have extensive experience with any number of other firearms, so attempting to illustrate that this pistol is "the standard" is a non-starter in my book. Glock is only "the standard" to those who would chose this platform over any other pistol (those who are forced to because that's what their employer issues or those who buy one as their entry-level gun because it's the only name they recognize).
I have both a Shield and a G19 and like them both for different reasons.
For concealability, give me the Shield all day. I love the G19, but I have yet to find a way to conceal it as well as the Shield.
And yes...I've tried a myriad of holsters for the G19.
For concealability, give me the Shield all day. I love the G19, but I have yet to find a way to conceal it as well as the Shield.
And yes...I've tried a myriad of holsters for the G19.
The G19 is large service type pistol that should not be compared to S&W Shield. The competition for the Shield are Walther PPS, XDs and Glock 43.
I thought the op was saying the 2.0 didn't seem like a good value at $439 considering what a 1.0 cost a couple months ago and compared to what you can get for around $500.
Dude, Walther PPS 2 at Buds is $314 while original version of Shield in 9x19 is $299. The only brands with plastic frames in $500 or more category are Block and Heckler und Koch.
A year from now when all the 1.0 Shields are sold and the 2.0 is the only choice, no one will remember all the grumbling about the newfangled model of Shield. It'll just be the Shield.
Look at Gloque's generations - the "upgrades" are pretty subtle, sometimes not well received (front strap finger grooves). It's not a big deal in the long run.
It's not like plastic guns will ever be collector's items. In 30 years will anyone ever say, "Wow, a NIB Shield 1.0! They're going for three grand now! No wonder, look at that craftsmanship!" LOL. It's a tool that just got improved a little.
Look at Gloque's generations - the "upgrades" are pretty subtle, sometimes not well received (front strap finger grooves). It's not a big deal in the long run.
It's not like plastic guns will ever be collector's items. In 30 years will anyone ever say, "Wow, a NIB Shield 1.0! They're going for three grand now! No wonder, look at that craftsmanship!" LOL. It's a tool that just got improved a little.
I get that, thanks. That was the way this thread was going so I chimed in.
OP
OP
george burns
Member
A lot of the time it's just what the gun looks like size wise, example is the LCP, the old model just looks a lot smaller tha the new one. I have the Champion, "which makes a great back up gun", even though I got the 2nd one for my wife, after selling the first one when they first came out, and it was a let down from my seacamp. Now I don't know if the new model is larger in real life, but it looks larger, "more formal" than the Champion I have. It's perception sometimes, not reality. Some guns just look a lot larger than they are.My Glock 30 S, is a small gun for a 10+1, 45 caliber gun. Now I haven't put it next to the M&P shield 45, but i would guess the Shield is a bit smaller, "but the Glock is only 20.8 ozs. , the shield is 22.5, I just peeked. So the Glock carries 10 and 1, the shield 6 plus one, or 7 plus 1. So the Glock 30S, is a lighter gun that carries 3 or 4 more rounds, which even I didn't expect until I looked on , http://concealednation.org/2016/07/firearm-review-smith-wesson-m-p-45-shield/, Looking at the guns in Magazines and print ads, the glock appears heavier and bigger, but when I lay my 30"S", next to my 26, it isn't much larger, it is closeer to a cub compact, than a compact, again perception vs reality.
I was going to buy a 45 shield until I read the specs, thinking it was more along the size of the old shield 40.So the whole thing is confusing unless you can lay them all next to each other, because guessing will always be a suprise, usually in a dissapointing way.
When I went to a glock 30 and then a 30S, it was because it was half the weight and held 3 more rounds than my 1911's, Which is the only good reason to me that I would opt not to carry my steel 38 oz gun. At gunfighting range it really won't matter how tight my groups are at 50 or 75 feet,
I was going to buy a 45 shield until I read the specs, thinking it was more along the size of the old shield 40.So the whole thing is confusing unless you can lay them all next to each other, because guessing will always be a suprise, usually in a dissapointing way.
When I went to a glock 30 and then a 30S, it was because it was half the weight and held 3 more rounds than my 1911's, Which is the only good reason to me that I would opt not to carry my steel 38 oz gun. At gunfighting range it really won't matter how tight my groups are at 50 or 75 feet,
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