Possible 2018 sanctions on Russians arms, i.e. ammo.

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Ignition Override

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This was in Bloomberg News around Oct. 27th.

Correction------- it reported that the State Dept. said that it Will sanction Rosoboronexport etc, which appears to be mostly under majority control by the govt.

This is for other peoples' benefit, as many of us planned ahead before '08-'-09 and before Newtown.

Only calmly reporting what was on Bloomberg News.
Contemplate the short-term ammo prices later in '18 if most steel-cased ammo disappears.
 
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This is the latest list of Russian companies which have been sanctioned by the US State department.

https://www.state.gov/t/isn/caatsa/275116.htm

If any one of those companies are producing ammo or own an eastern bloc company that does the product will no longer be exported to the US. Notice that the sanctions are Russian defense companies. As Russia is the second largest arms/munitions exporter in the world it wouldn't surprise me that one or more of those companies doesn't own an ammo plant somewhere in Russia or the eastern bloc.

7.62x39 ammo is currently manufactured in many countries, but the primary supply source for the US consumer market are factories in Russia that lead the market in terms of price and sales volume. Additionally significant quantities of 7.62x39 ammo are made in Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Serbia for sale in the United States commercial market. Also, from time to time military surplus stock piles are liquidated and imported to the USA, mostly Yugoslavian 1970s vintage M67 Ball 7.62x39 Ammo.
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http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammo-sale/762x39-ammo


This is just the calm :D beginning of the end.
 
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I'm more concerned that Baikal air pistols are no longer imported new and used prices have went thru the roof.

I don't see the sanctions ending anytime soon.
 
Jack B. said:
I don't worry I make my own ammo.
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You make your own 7.62*39? Maybe. But current Russian production is cheaper than reloading it- which will drive ALL associated prices up.
Think about it, the main driving force behind US made AKs, the Mini 30, and all the 7.62 bolt guns we are seeing in the market right now is CHEAP AMMO. Sure, its an OK intermediate round on its own merits, but if the cost goes significantly above .223, you can kiss those guns goodbye.
Hopefully the other former eastern bloc countries can pick up the slack- but the price WILL be higher, its just a question of how much and its relative appeal to .223.
Mosin prices will probably drop again too if no one can get ammo for them.
Yes, there are gazillions of these rifles in the US, and the ammo will be available for decades to come, but the weapons themselves will slowly get shoved to the back of the safe as the .223s get the range time.
Remember when we thought 8mm Mauser would be around forever? How bout .303 Brit?
The whole situation sucks. Ya, I hate giving Putin my money, but damn I love my AKs. So I guess I will root for Privi and S&B to feed my rifles....:)
Hmmmm...if they were smart, Auto Ordnance and Inland would take this opportunity to push the .30 carbine harder too....
 
Being that this country is the biggest sporting arms and ammunition market in the world it makes sense that that's one of the commodities that sanctions are made by the US. Keep in mind other foreign manufacturers will pick up some of this slack.

People complain about such sanctions but you need to ask yourself a question. Which is more important to you, cheap guns and ammo or the issues the US is trying to use this as a lever against another government to do what is in our interests?
 
"...sanctions on Russians arms..." There are already sanctions and a U.S./Russian government agreements regarding cheap Warsaw Pact small arms not being exported/imported, Stateside. Clinton, I think.
"...cheaper than reloading..." Reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo in your firearms. And that ain't cheaply made, usually steel cased, Russian crappola.
"...would be around forever..." Nobody ever thought milsurp ammo would be around forever. It was always in finite supply.
"...if no one can get ammo for them..." That'll be fixed by the American ammo makers.
However, Bloomberg News is owned by NYC mayor Bloomberg. A notorious anti-firearm ownership, unprincipled(changed Parties to get elected) socialist. Not exactly trustworthy.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
You make your own 7.62*39? Maybe. But current Russian production is cheaper than reloading it- which will drive ALL associated prices up.
Think about it, the main driving force behind US made AKs, the Mini 30, and all the 7.62 bolt guns we are seeing in the market right now is CHEAP AMMO. Sure, its an OK intermediate round on its own merits, but if the cost goes significantly above .223, you can kiss those guns goodbye.
Hopefully the other former eastern bloc countries can pick up the slack- but the price WILL be higher, its just a question of how much and its relative appeal to .223.
Mosin prices will probably drop again too if no one can get ammo for them.
Yes, there are gazillions of these rifles in the US, and the ammo will be available for decades to come, but the weapons themselves will slowly get shoved to the back of the safe as the .223s get the range time.
Remember when we thought 8mm Mauser would be around forever? How bout .303 Brit?
The whole situation sucks. Ya, I hate giving Putin my money, but damn I love my AKs. So I guess I will root for Privi and S&B to feed my rifles....:)
Hmmmm...if they were smart, Auto Ordnance and Inland would take this opportunity to push the .30 carbine harder too....
Click to expand...
Sorry don't own an AK or any semi auto rifle. Don't plan to either. I'm just old fashioned. I like wood stocks and blueded steel and bolt actions. Also don't own anything smaller than .30 -06 caliber. Don't like Russian junk.
 
Jack B. said:
Sorry don't own an AK or any semi auto rifle. Don't plan to either. I'm just old fashioned. I like wood stocks and blueded steel and bolt actions. Also don't own anything smaller than .30 -06 caliber. Don't like Russian junk.
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You should try some of that "Russian junk" my friend. Beauty may be in the eye and all that, but an AK done right can be art in wood and blued steel. The SKS is even more traditional, being machined largely from solid steel billets. Both are dead nuts reliable, easy on the shoulder, and powerful enough to bring down deer sized food at most practical ranges. How bout the Mini 30? Its basically a little Garand...don't get much more old school that that.
No hate, though, I love my turn bolts too, and Ive got plenty of em, but seriously, I dare you to squeeze off 10 rounds through one of these and not have a smile on your face....
 
Sunray: Your doubts about Bloomberg News' credibility could be well-founded, although why they would create such fake news about this might only be part of some entity's investment tactic.

The article didn't seem to quote any named source.

Did any other news outfit supposedly also quote a State Dept. source about this?
 
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Ignition Override said:
Sunray: Your doubts about Bloomberg News' credibility could be well-founded, although why they would create such fake news about this might only be part of some entity's investment tactic.

The article didn't seem to quote any named source.
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Well, you could just search the State Department's webpage. Oct 27, 2017, the following companies (among others) were added to the CAATSA Section 231(d) List (CAATSA = sanctions)
  • Izhevsk Mechanical Plant (Baikal)
  • Izhmash Concern JSC
  • Kalashnikov Concern JSC
  • Molot Oruzhie
  • Rosoboronexport OJSC (ROE)
  • Rostec (Russian Technologies State Corporation)
  • ... and a bunch of other Russian organizations
 
I don't see the problem. Keep our money here supporting our own arms industry. Or, if we're going to insist on sending money overseas, then let's at least send it to places like South Korean, Czech Republic or Mexico that aren't quite as hostile to our interests.
 
I'm not sure Mexico (or a number of countries in Western Hemisphere) are any less hostile to our interests than Russia is. If Mexico were any more dysfunctional, we'd have to start putting the 1st Cav Division on border patrol 24/7/365. I do agree with supporting our own arms and ammunition manufacturers here in the USA - however, even those companies have outsourced a lot of their production to overseas plants that keep the money offshore to avoid US taxation. I am going to crunch the numbers and see if my purchasing a new Dillon XL 650 with all the bells and whistles for $1200 bucks is worth the investment. I've had a RL 550B model since 2006 and have enjoyed loading over 20,000 .45 acp rounds, along with several thousand .44 Special and .44 Mag rounds..I wondering if I start loading my own .223 and .308 Winchester for range practice - if it is worth it. Hmmmm..
 
Well, you could just search the State Department's webpage. Oct 27, 2017, the following companies (among others) were added to the CAATSA Section 231(d) List (CAATSA = sanctions)
  • Izhevsk Mechanical Plant (Baikal)
  • Izhmash Concern JSC
  • Kalashnikov Concern JSC
  • Molot Oruzhie
  • Rosoboronexport OJSC (ROE)
  • Rostec (Russian Technologies State Corporation)
  • ... and a bunch of other Russian organizations
Click to expand...
Well... Tula Ammo Plant is part of the Rostec group and Wolf centerfire ammo is made by Tula... That's not good news for fellow US shooters I'm afraid.
 
SteveChuck said:
I'm not sure Mexico (or a number of countries in Western Hemisphere) are any less hostile to our interests than Russia is. If Mexico were any more dysfunctional, we'd have to start putting the 1st Cav Division on border patrol 24/7/365. I do agree with supporting our own arms and ammunition manufacturers here in the USA - however, even those companies have outsourced a lot of their production to overseas plants that keep the money offshore to avoid US taxation. I am going to crunch the numbers and see if my purchasing a new Dillon XL 650 with all the bells and whistles for $1200 bucks is worth the investment. I've had a RL 550B model since 2006 and have enjoyed loading over 20,000 .45 acp rounds, along with several thousand .44 Special and .44 Mag rounds..I wondering if I start loading my own .223 and .308 Winchester for range practice - if it is worth it. Hmmmm..
Click to expand...

Lots of US citizens go to Mexico every year for various reasons. I was there a few years ago. I made it in and out, didn't have any hassles.

Hostile interests?

According to the Department of Commerce, U.S. exports of Goods and Services to Mexico supported an estimated 1.2 million jobs in 2015 (latest data available) (968 thousand supported by goods exports and 201 thousand supported by services exports).
Click to expand...

Mexico was the United States' 2nd largest goods export market in 2016.
Click to expand...

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

That doesn't sound like much of a hostile country to me. Maybe you don't speak the language.
 
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So is this a pending ban on imports or not? I know full well that Baikal firearms have been banned from import for a while. Is Wolf/Tula ammo going to get caught up as well? If so, I might want to stock up on 9MM Mak fodder.
 
AKs were great when they were less than half the price of an AR and SKS were $75, with cheap x39 could be bought by the pallet. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense anymore from a practical standpoint with ARs so cheap, unless you just like the rifles.

I gave up on steel cased ammo when I sold off my AK and some other milsurps. Steel cased ammo has risen quite a bit in price, and if you shop around you can get much higher quality ammo for not much more money. I just recently shot the last of my steel cased .223. Steel cased worked fine in the AR for plinking, but I am under no illusion that it is as good as any bulk pack brass cased 223 from federal, Winchester, umc, PMC, etc.

Someone will take up the slack if sanctions create a gap in the market though. Just like how I saw all of the armscor 22 from the Philippines start to show up during the great 22lr shortage from 2012-2016.
 
Someone will take up the slack if sanctions create a gap in the market though. Just like how I saw all of the armscor 22 from the Philippines start to show up during the great 22lr shortage from 2012-2016.
Click to expand...

The trick is to get the ammo into a country without restrictions and relabel it as something made there. That adds costs however and importers don't like the risk.

I can see someone moving the equipment to build that ammo to the Philippines or Mexico. It will never be as cheap as it once was though.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Lots of US citizens go to Mexico every year for various reasons. I was there a few years ago. I made it in and out, didn't have any hassles.

Hostile interests?





https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

That doesn't sound like much of a hostile country to me. Maybe you don't speak the language.
Click to expand...
I suppose because it's easy to ignore the billions of dollars of illegal drugs, the human trafficking, the murders, kidnappings, and other assorted "activities" that occur on our Southwest border as not being "hostile" since it's conducted by criminal cartels - however, being as how the GOV'T of Mexico not only allows it, but, their Federal police, the majority of their Ministers in the government AND their top leaders in every single Mexican state PARTICIPATE in it, how is that NOT Hostile to the USA? It costs the U.S. Billions upon Billions of dollars to fight the crime, to track and try to deport Illegals, to "provide" for them in terms of Health Care, Education, Housing etc..and it would slow to a small percentage of that IF Mexico decided to enforce tough border controls on THEIR side of the border and only conduct LEGAL trade and commerce. Is there a chance that will ever happen? Nah. And, if you don't think the statements made by the Mexican "Presidente" and other Mexican officials towards our newly elected President, when he stated that it is now our goal to Secure that Southern border, to renegotiate NAFTA and to end Human smuggling and stop the flow of drugs - their statements - very hostile, insulting and refusal to assist in ANY way - were not as threatening to us - well, I guess you are living on another planet. Personally, I could care less what Russia does to the Ukraine and the claims of territory they have around the Black Sea and Ukraine - declaring them hostile to the US and putting up sanctions on them is ludicrous. Mexico however - they promote, allow and assist in smuggling people, drugs, weapons and other blackmarket items into our nation that contributes to the destruction of our society and culture. I'd rather do business with the Russians.
 
Whelp... Kiss steel cased Russian ammo goodbye. Tula Ordinance Plant is part of Vysokotochnye Kompleksy - a holding company formed jn 2009 which is now subsidiary of ROSTEC. Here are the holdings listed for this part of ROSTEC's structure: http://rostec.ru/en/about/holdings/142.

Not looking good
 
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