Home Defense Sling?

If a burglar or home invader is trying to get into our house my plan is to arm myself, tell my wife to grab her gun and her phone and go in the bathroom and then hunker down and wait for the Calvary to arrive.

I'm not going to be clearing my house. If someone is trying to get into our house they'll have their work cut out for them with those two doors or those windows, we've hardened both. I'd rather just keep them out til the cops get there than shoot them.

The perfect vantage point to observe the two doors into our house and the front and rear windows is right by the door to our bedroom. Except for the kitchen I can see the whole first floor.

I have my body armor by our bed and my wife's set is in the bathroom closet. My side zip work boots are also right by our bed so I have something to stuff my feet into. If I go through 28 rds I have 4 other mags and a Glock and 4 pistol mags in my bedside drawer to work my way through.

There's almost no situation on earth that's going to require that many shots, but I'm betting that Vic Stacey or Stephen Willeford didn't think that they'd be dealing with the crazy situations that they had to deal with when they woke up that morning either.

Not much need for a sling.

I have a recently acquired AR pistol which serves as a home defense weapon though a 1911 is my primary at the moment. I also have a 12 gauge within reach if it gets that crazy. When it's not in that role, I sling the AR; no sling along side the bed. Being wakened out of a deep sleep, being startled or otherwise, and the possibility of time being of the essence, I don't want to risk a sling causing mayhem in any form.

Telekinesis said:

I like the idea of having a sling on a home defense long gun. If you use it right you are unlikely to get it caught on things and it makes it very convenient if you need to transition to another weapon, grab a kid, or make a call to 911.




Maybe I'm not seeing the whole situation as you envision it, but if someone is trying to disarm you by grabbing the sling of your gun, thats a perfect opportunity to shoot them with either the long gun or a sidearm.

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Only applies if he is front of you - what if he is on your side or behind you?

George P said:

Only applies if he is front of you - what if he is on your side or behind you?

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What if he is on your side or behind you if you didn’t have a sling? Just playing devils advicate here. I standby my first two post.

KeyboardCommando said:

Can't grab that without suffering the consequences

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Gloves. enough criminals wear them. Don't bring a sword to a gunfight. ALWAYS assume it is a gunfight in your own home. You must be a student of Skallagrim's. Be sure it has a detachable pommel to end your foe rightly!
I prefer not to have a sling on my shotgun, (OP said rifle or shotgun) but I can use one if it's there. I just think the time used slipping it on could be used better. (911, body armor, etc.)

Some here are posting as though the criminal/bad guy you encounter inside your abode will be unarmed and thus be put in a position where he must disarm you and/or fight you for your long gun ... In my experience, bad guys who are the bump in the night are themselves usually armed and typically try to get the first shot in if they encounter an armed homeowner, rather than attempting to wrestle the resident for his/her gun ...

Some also appear to believe that it's a very time-consuming process to sling one's weapon. Ah, well. 'Tis a bit of over-thinking going on hereabouts.

I have a 2 point, quick adjustable sling on my HD rifle. In my opinion, it offers good weapon retention and the ability to safely stow my weapon on my body if I need to use hands for grabbing kids, dialing 911, etc.

That’s just my humble .02

Old Dog said:

Some also appear to believe that it's a very time-consuming process to sling one's weapon.

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Take a look at these home invasion and armed robbery videos.






••••••••
New Orleans family is the target of a home invasion
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/11/eastern_new_orleans_dentists_s.html

There's a video in the article and it shows one of the three men calmly climbing out of their window after the shootout with a Garand.
In all of these videos there's between 2 to 4 armed robbers.

•••••••••

The point of these videos are to show how fast many of these events occur. Meaning that they're FAST. It starts and is often over in the blink of an eye. Armed robbers also use speed and violence of action to subdue their victims to try and shock them into inactivity.

The home invaders are ready mentally for a confrontation to happen. You are not mentally ready for something to happen right then, right there. You are asleep in your bed, watching something on TV, sitting at the computer surfing THR or (if you're at work) sorting out invoices or performing some other mundane task. You literally have to go from zero to 60 in the blink of an eye (that's where training comes in).

The thing is do you really need a sling for an engagement that might last 15 seconds?

Sure flipping a sling over your head takes just a couple secs, but that time might be better spent throwing an extra mag or a pocket sized IFAK into your back pocket or shoving a pistol in your waistband in case your rifle or shotgun goes down.

It isn't that putting on a sling takes that much time, it's just that in some cases the amount of time you have until they come barreling in isn't very long.

Just my take on it...:Shrug

Old Dog said:

Seriously, are some of you planning to single-handedly clear your home room by room?

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This is a THR home defense thread, so... Yeah, that's exactly what a lot of people are planning on doing... Much to my ever gigglesnorting amusement.

I mean, I really don't get it. If I can go through a strange house wearing a duty rig and a plate carrier with all it's goofy pouches, mic cords, zip cuffs and a partridge in a pear tree, and not get hung up... you'd think a guy in his skivvies could navigate his own home with a single piece of nylon.

We aren't talking hunting her folks. A properly rigged sling on a fighting rifle isn't for carrying your rifle around, it's for retaining control of your rifle in dynamic situations where you might need to do something other than pew pew for a few moments. That could come in many forms such as having an impromptu furniture arranging party to barricade a door, controlling children, TQ party and many many more fun options. Unpredictable things happen in dynamic situations, it's a good idea to be able to use your hands without having to put down your rifle. In otherwords, if you think a sling is for "long term carry of a longarm", you are doing it wrong. Learn 2 sling. FYI: Part of "learn 2 sling" is how to put it on with your rifle at the shoulder so you can get your pew pew on against anyone that uses that brief moment to make their grand entry.

Browning said:

The point of these videos are to show how fast many of these events occur. Meaning that they're FAST. It starts and is often over in the blink of an eye. Armed robbers also use speed and violence of action to subdue their victims to try and shock them into inactivity.

The home invaders are ready mentally for a confrontation to happen. You are not mentally ready for something to happen right then, right there. You are asleep in your bed, watching something on TV, sitting at the computer surfing THR or (if you're at work) sorting out invoices or performing some other mundane task. You literally have to go from zero to 60 in the blink of an eye (that's where training comes in).

The thing is do you really need a sling for an engagement that might last 15 seconds?

Sure flipping a sling over your head takes just a couple secs, but that time might be better spent throwing an extra mag or a pocket sized IFAK into your back pocket or shoving a pistol in your waistband in case your rifle or shotgun goes down.

It isn't that putting on a sling takes that much time, it's just that in some cases the amount of time you have until they come barreling in isn't very long.

Just my take on it...:Shrug

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So we go from discussing picking up a rifle to investigate a bump in the night to being treated to a display of organized home invaders ... If the engagement lasts only 15 seconds, you, the homeowner/resident are either deceased or wrapped up in duct-tape while your home is pillaged and your loved ones raped.

If the home invaders in your area typicallly execute their dynamic entry of your abode with the precision of a well-trained tactical team, it will be over before you even realize you need to be armed.

And if your home's entry points aren't hardened to the point where your door can't be breached by one kick from a size-12 boot, if you have no installed alarm system or early warning system such as an alert canine, any discussion of how to accessorize your firearms is absolutely moot.

The sole point I'd been trying to make was that if I have time to arm myself with a carbine, I believe there are more pros to having a sling than cons. As I said previously, some here way overthink some matters. That is all.

My designated home defense shotgun has a 19" barrel and the sling adjusted to prevent the forward hand from slipping in front of the muzzle. In defensive mode it is not for carrying the gun slung (yet still enough slack allow it to be slung over the shoulder when woodswalking or target practice on the mountain).
If a home invader is close enough to grab the sling, he is close enough to grab the barrel, and I've let him too close anyway.

This probably doesn't matter a whole lot in practice. Having a sling can be beneficial or detrimental depending on the circumstances.

I guess I would suggest no sling for in-home defense, but only from the standpoint of feeling like I can't think of too many cases where I'd use a sling inside of the home. If I'm encountering a bad guy in my home the person is going to have to make a very quick decision about their future: 1) Comply 2) Get shot.

In either of those cases I don't really see myself needing to get my hands free for other activities.

Now, for a patrol rifle like I use in my job, a sling is essential. There are many cases where I may need to switch from holding a rifle to doing something else with my hands.

For whatever it's worth, my current two home defense long guns do not have slings on them. I wouldn't be worried if they did, but I don't feel bad that I don't.

Old Dog said:

So we go from discussing picking up a rifle to investigate a bump in the night to being treated to a display of organized home invaders

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Do you have a crystal ball that can tell you what that bump in the night is?

I don't.

... If the engagement lasts only 15 seconds, you, the homeowner/resident are either deceased or wrapped up in duct-tape while your home is pillaged and your loved ones raped.

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Again with the crystal ball.

'Organized' can mean a lot of things.

It can mean that 3 thugs can actually manage to get together at the same time away from their drug of choice with an assortment of poorly cared for guns. It can mean that they have no firearms training whatsoever. That their guns are poorly maintained and missing parts, sights and the stock and that they'll flee at the first sign of resistance all the way to ex-combat servicemen with a ton of ordinance gone bad.

There's a lot of room in between those two extremes.

If the home invaders in your area typicallly execute their dynamic entry of your abode with the precision of a well-trained tactical team, it will be over before you even realize you need to be armed.

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Keep pumping most of these guys up to mythic proportions.

They're not special forces and they aren't SWAT. Most didn't graduate high school. Most are gang members and while some of them have gotten pretty good at armed robberies and armed burglaries through experience, most have never even had the slightest bit of resistance thrown their way.

And if your home's entry points aren't hardened to the point where your door can't be breached by one kick from a size-12 boot, if you have no installed alarm system or early warning system such as an alert canine, any discussion of how to accessorize your firearms is absolutely moot.

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•Steel door...check.
•Steel door frame...check.
•Security hinges...check.
•Security striker plate...check
•Door guardian
•Extra long screws for the hinges and striker plate...check.
•Bump proof locks...check.
•3m window film for the windows...check.
•Canine (she's old, but she still barks when she hears something) ... check.
•ADT alarm...check.
•Fire extinguisher...check
•Extremely well stocked medical kits...check.

Even with everything we've done on the house in regard to security someone who's very determined could still get in, but it provides a great deal of time to get ready.

Just buying a couple guns (one presumably a rifle with a sling) and a flashlight and calling it good is kind of delusional.

My point was that I could see where the 'no-sling guys' are coming from since they might be worried about a sling getting tangled or getting in the way.

The sole point I'd been trying to make was that if I have time to arm myself with a carbine, I believe there are more pros to having a sling than cons. As I said previously, some here way overthink some matters. That is all.

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Then by all means buy and use a sling on your home defense carbine. That's cool. More power to you.

Just saying, slings are good for helping to carry the rifle for long distances and as an aid in marksmanship. My house isn't large enough to use a sling for the first purpose and for the second I've trained enough to be able to minute of torso across my living room if they break through all that and get in here before the police come.

Unless you have reason to believe that the bad guy(s) are between you and your family, or you and another weapon, there is little reason to advance to contact

Strange noise, maybe outside, maybe just your mind, I often grab a handgun.

The holy crap, someone is in my house? Up in the hallway while the wife grabs kids and goes into the Alamo, where I then retreat and get a rifle too, and that rifle has a sling (false alarm recently, we got to practice)

Nothing in your house is worth dying for except family members, so don’t go looking for trouble, if it comes to you be ready

The sling allows you to do a lot of things and not drop a rifle, including carrying kids, opening doors, calling 911, all of the things mentioned

If you are afraid of a bad guy using the sling against you, why are you going to clear your house?

With that said, if you have family on the other side of the bad guy, all bets are off, move quickly with a well developed plan, be very selective in weapon and ammo choice and be very careful that you have 110% positive ID of any potential target. That is what I worry about, not the bad guy, but instead where my wife and kids are...if I know where they are, the bad guy doesn’t have much of a chance because I am the one doing the surprising

Just my 2 cents, a decent sling is not going to make you lose a gunfight, a bad plan, being really unlucky, complacency, or doing dumb things might

I keep a sling on mine. There may be some potential pitfalls....but I can picture way to many circumstances where I'd need my hands, and a sling would be very beneficial.

Your weapon of choice should be practiced with in whatever configuration you keep it

Browning said:

Do you have a crystal ball that can tell you what that bump in the night is?

I don't.

Again with the crystal ball.

'Organized' can mean a lot of things.

It can mean that 3 thugs can actually manage to get together at the same time away from their drug of choice with an assortment of poorly cared for guns. It can mean that they have no firearms training whatsoever. That their guns are poorly maintained and missing parts, sights and the stock and that they'll flee at the first sign of resistance all the way to ex-combat servicemen with a ton of ordinance gone bad.

...

Keep pumping most of these guys up to mythic proportions.

They're not special forces and they aren't SWAT. Most didn't graduate high school. Most are gang members and while some of them have gotten pretty good at armed robberies and armed burglaries through experience, most have never even had the slightest bit of resistance thrown their way.

Then by all means buy and use a sling on your home defense carbine. That's cool. More power to you.

Just saying, slings are good for helping to carry the rifle for long distances and as an aid in marksmanship. My house isn't large enough to use a sling for the first purpose and for the second I've trained enough to be able to minute of torso across my living room if they break through all that and get in here before the police come.

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Um, well ... gee, thanks for taking the time to dissect my post (I think). I will point out that it was actually your post's comments (along with the cool videos) that pumped "most of these guys up to mythic proportions." I have actually dealt with a few of these miscreants (in a strictly professional capacity) and, alas, on a couple occasions, arrived too late to interview a couple would-be home invaders who became DRT as a result of decent marksmanship on the part of the residents .... So yes, I have purchased, and do use a sling on my home-defense carbine (as well as my work carbine), but thanks anyway for the suggestion; think you forgot to mention that slings are also good for assisting in some areas brought up by other members, i.e., holding/using cell phones, transitioning to a secondary weapon, carrying/holding/guiding/herding family members into a safe room or outside ...

Are defending the ALAMO or what.

I'm with Clint Beastwood (props for one of the manliest names ever) there's no right or wrong answer, and I didn't vote because like everything else we do, it depends.

I have a sling on my AR, and I like it that way. If I need to let go of the gun to do something like provide medical care to a family member, transition to handgun, or whatever, then I can do that, and maybe even move while I do that, without being separated from my rifle. That's a good thing.

My shotgun does not have a sling. I MIGHT put one on if I take I take it turkey or duck hunting, but since it's a pump gun, I think it's more likely to get in the way of the manual of arms. That said, I haven't tried running the shotgun with a sling, but given that your hands are a lot more busy than with an AR, when I have it set up for three gun or home defense, I don't put a sling on it.

Keyboard Commando, I will admit that I have never done force on force with a long gun. Your post strikes me as, I don't want to say exaggerated, but maybe a bit heavy handed. You do bring up some valuable points though. when I get back on my feet in regards to that type of thing, I will have to play around with it on the mat, although I don't think there would be much difference between defending against the type of attacks you describe, and defending against a seatbelt in when grappling in a vehicle, or gi based attacks. Need to ask some guys in the know on that sort of thing, but it will be interesting to see what they have to say

Old Dog said:

I will point out that it was actually your post's comments (along with the cool videos) that pumped "most of these guys up to mythic proportions."

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My post was more along the lines of "Hey look, I can see why some guys don't believe that they'll need a sling on their gun because their front door sucks and they might be worried that these guys who possess rudimentary group skills might come crashing through and they might believe that a sling will get in the way"

You just took them to a whole new level.

yes, I have purchased, and do use a sling on my home-defense carbine (as well as my work carbine), but thanks anyway for the suggestion; ..

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Cool.

...think you forgot to mention that slings are also good for assisting in some areas brought up by other members, i.e., holding/using cell phones, transitioning to a secondary weapon, carrying/holding/guiding/herding family members into a safe room or outside ...

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If someone isn't able to call the police from the scene for you I have three words...Siri and speaker phone. Pretty rare for my house though.

I've also trained to use a carbine one handed and if it goes down I'll just transition to the pistol in my pocket or in my nightstand.

Cooldill said:

Who thinks a sling on a home defense rifle or shotgun is a good idea? ...

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I voted Yes and have only read the OP ....

It all depends upon how you would use the longgun.

In my case, I would start with a pistol as primary inside the house and want to be able to quickly switch to the AR/AK/M1Carbine slung across my back if/when the situation/range changed.

I think it’s a terrible idea to not have a sling on a home-defense long gun. There is no downside to having one; anyone who seriously thinks it’s going to snag on everything obviously has never had a job where they carried a sling-equipped long gun around. But if you ever need both hands while maintaining control of the rifle, a good two-point sling is invaluable.

Home defense situations usually involve the intruder either running away or surrendering. If the latter happens, what then? You call the cops and wait for them to get there. And a sling makes it a heck of a lot easier to maintain positive control of the weapon if you need both hands for a task while you’re waiting for the cops (a wait that can take a while in my experience). Without a sling, you need to put the weapon down if you need your hands, which is not a good thing.

KeyboardCommando said:

If you shoot a home intruder with a long gun you're most likely going to be putting holes in your walls or bullets in your house. Easy to over-penetrate...

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How long are people going to continue to spread this misinformation?

Captains1911 said:

How long are people going to continue to spread this misinformation?

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Seriously. It's getting tiring. At this point, a gun person would need to have his head buried in the sand to not know that a .223 caliber rifle (or similar) loaded with hollow-points is one of the best firearms to use if you're worried about over-penetration. How often does it come up on forums like these?

My HD long gun has no sling. If I were to attach one, I would roll it up and secure it with a rubber band. If you have time to attach it to yourself, snatch it open and sling it. If not, use the weapon with the sling rolled up and banded.

Nearly all my rifles, including home defense ones wear a sling. I've hunted thick Pacific Northwest woods and never had a rifle sling snag on brush. Never had a sling get in the way at the range, gravel pit or in the fields. Maybe it is an issue for some folks so in that case I would say get rid of anything that slows you down. But for me it has not been a problem under many conditions and is right handy if I need to use the cell phone, open a jammed door, or assist someone else.

I would be much more concerned about inadvertently setting it down. In fact, in one of the posted videos, it looks like the home defender chasing out the bad guys actually stumbles and drops his rifle. And then quickly recovers it. If a bad guy is close enough to grab my rifle or sling then I have failed in a big way already. If he has not shot me and is trying for my gun then I am pulling my pistol. But I won't be looking for trouble, just keeping distance and defending. I'll have to think through some scenarios but so far having a sling seems like a natural thing for me.