Sling on home defense AR

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Exactly! This isn't a rifle vs handgun debate. That would be a separate argument.
It might make it easier to neatly subdivide everything like this, but the problem is that some of the methods that apply to dealing with rifles, slung rifles and pistols relate to each other. The underarm retention hold on a carbine is closely analogous to pistol techniques, and the use of a sling is a way of "holstering" a carbine to free your hands - but you can't really do both with a carbine at the same time.

Times change and different techniques go in and out of favor. 20 years ago Delta spent a huge amount of time and ammo using .45s as primary house clearing weapons, even though SBRs and subguns were available to them. Everyone has shifted to using carbines because the rounds are so much more effective - and also because a carbine is not a specialized piece of gear that stops being useful when you are back patrolling a street. But offensive handgun program stuff keeps popping up in SF because there are situations where shoulder fired weapons aren't the right solution.

Solving the HD problem requires understanding how any of the normal weapon options are going to function and evaluating why you're choosing one solution with all its limitations.
 
The whole thread is to be taken literally. This is very concrete discussion, not a philosophy debate.

Okay I'll rephrase it. Professionals who do this day in day out use slings, why? Becouse they work. There is no tactical reason not to, there is no real debate here.

Some people don't get why other people have doubts about slings for one and only one job, so we have tried to illustrate the specific problems.

You have a specific problem where your house is too small to apparently use a carbine so you'd rather use a pistol. Fair enough but that has nothing to do with slings.
 
Okay I'll rephrase it. Professionals who do this day in day out use slings, why? Becouse they work. There is no tactical reason not to, there is no real debate here.

You have a specific problem where your house is too small to apparently use a carbine so you'd rather use a pistol. Fair enough but that has nothing to do with slings.
There are no "home defense professionals". Endlessly talking about SEALs and SWAT misses the fact that their jobs are not the same as our needs. Plenty of overlap, but there is a still a Formula 1 vs minivan comparison going on. Those groups use carbines offensively, and they frankly don't care as much about collateral damage (your wife and kids) as you do.

My specific problem, which may be a lot of people's specific problem, is that some of the carbine techniques that best address the tightest quarters don't work with slings, because you can't position the butt far enough back to reduce the muzzle radius ahead of you. And when you start to go down that rabbit hole, you end up running into the problem that rifles have - there is no holster for them. But if you are sold on a carbine and you want to make it work, you may need to consider how to get the freedom of a sling without its restrictions on maneuvering.
 
If you're expecting a sling to "aid in retention" then you're already worried about close proximity - which is the essence of home defense.

Yank and push to knock you off balance and onto your keister. You'll see how quickly you lose.

Of course that's not part of "your" fight is it?

If having a sling puts you at a disadvantage in a H2H engagement...you're doing it wrong. I can only dream they would be stupid enough to grab and yank...phullease don't throw me in that briar patch.

I want to be driving into them using all my weight to break whatever vulnerable anatomy on them is exposed. If they yank me into them, free momentum! Who is going to be off balance, me getting yanked forward when I want to go forward...or them yanking backwards expecting resistance and receive none? I hope we fall, I'll land on top and my rifle will crush their throat. I'll also now be below the line of fire ready to pop to a knee and continue the fight.

Yes, I've trained this. Ironically, not in the military as the military never gave me the H2H (or handgun) training I felt I needed. It is all available to any civilian who is serious about learning.
 
There are no "home defense professionals". Endlessly talking about SEALs and SWAT misses the fact that their jobs are not the same as our needs
Professionals also have homes and families to defend

Those groups use carbines offensively, and they frankly don't care as much about collateral damage (your wife and kids) as you do
Profesionals do worry about collateral damage and you can bet they have a plan to take care of their wives and children if they ever have to defend their own homes

My specific problem, which may be a lot of people's specific problem, is that some of the carbine techniques that best address the tightest quarters don't work with slings, because you can't position the butt far enough back to reduce the muzzle radius ahead of you. And when you start to go down that rabbit hole, you end up running into the problem that rifles have - there is no holster for them. But if you are sold on a carbine and you want to make it work, you may need to consider how to get the freedom of a sling without its restrictions on maneuvering.
1) The length of most slings can be adjusted
2) A better technique to "shorten" a rifle is to put the stock on top of the shoulder
 
Profesionals do worry about collateral damage and you can bet they have a plan to take care of their wives and children if they ever have to defend their own homes
Great! What is it, and where can we find out about it?
 
Great! What is it, and where can we find out about it?
Critical thinking time- What should you do when you want to know what a professional knows? Ask the professional. Find one that offers training and attend their classes and/or develop personal relationships and pick their brains.I can share what the profesionals I know have taught me. I can't speak for them.

Professionals are people. Like all of us, they have private lives. They have spouses, family and their own problems. One difference is they have training and experience they can apply to develop defense strategies and tactics for their personal needs. They know that door kicking and face shooting aren't always the best strategies for keeping their families safe
 
Critical thinking time- What should you do when you want to know what a professional knows? Ask the professional. Find one that offers training and attend their classes and/or develop personal relationships and pick their brains.I can share what the profesionals I know have taught me. I can't speak for them.

Professionals are people. Like all of us, they have private lives. They have spouses, family and their own problems. One difference is they have training and experience they can apply to develop defense strategies and tactics for their personal needs. They know that door kicking and face shooting aren't always the best strategies for keeping their families safe
What I meant was, if you want to talk about the knowledge these folks put out about this topic related to home defense, picking up kids, tight spaces, etc - please paste that information into the thread. Intimating that the information must exist is fine, but it doesn't answer a single question in the thread.

It may well be that some pros would agree with you, and some would agree with other views, but since none of those professionals are in this thread, we have no idea what they would personally do.
 
What I meant was, if you want to talk about the knowledge these folks put out about this topic related to home defense, picking up kids, tight spaces, etc - please paste that information into the thread. Intimating that the information must exist is fine, but it doesn't answer a single question in the thread.

It may well be that some pros would agree with you, and some would agree with other views, but since none of those professionals are in this thread, we have no idea what they would personally do.
You act as if the only plan professionals have to protect their homes and families is offensive SEAL or SWAT tactics, like in an action movie. You wield that argument like a club as to why a professional's opinion about the use of a sling doesn't matter, bashing away at points to the contrary.

I don't care if the professionals agree with me or not, because they are the professionals in this field, not me. But I agree with their position on the use of slings. I've shared what I've picked up from them and my own experiences, to provide food for thought on the matter. You can either take it into consideration and do your own research, or you can beat it with your club. It's on you. I won't waste any more of your time
 
You act as if professionals don't have a plan to protect their homes and loved ones, or that the plan involves nothing but SEAL or SWAT tactics, like they are just heroes in an action movie. You wield that argument like a club as to why a professional's opinion about the use of a sling doesn't matter, bashing away at points to the contrary.
No, I act like I don't know what their plan is.

I have no idea what professionals' opinion of what we are discussing is. Sounds like you don't either, or you would present it.
 
What I meant was, if you want to talk about the knowledge these folks put out about this topic related to home defense, picking up kids, tight spaces, etc - please paste that information into the thread. Intimating that the information must exist is fine, but it doesn't answer a single question in the thread.

It may well be that some pros would agree with you, and some would agree with other views, but since none of those professionals are in this thread, we have no idea what they would personally do.

We can't just post these info from professionals--you have to get your training personally from them or ask them yourself. Most professionals will not be in these forums for their own reasons, but they do participate in others.

Each situation is different for each person, family, and household. So techniques will be tailored based on individual or case-by-case basis. Many techniques that the military/LE have used effectively will also apply to home scenario. If you seriously feel that a carbine/rifle is not a good fit for your situation and would rather go with a handgun, then that is your choice.

Here are a couple of vids from professionals Rob Pincus and Larry Vickers. Both employ the use of a sling.





You don't have to use a sling on your weapon if you choose not to. But if you trip or your weapon slips out of your hands in your home and drop your weapon, you are at a big disadvantage
 
Banisters and door latches.

What the "very experienced" seem to miss is that for some people this isn't about the universal applicability of a slung carbine to room clearing, but about the specific issues they have with the architecture of their home; the location, number and age of their children and what they see as a likely or possible threat.

I have been in a discussion were several LEOs insisted that concerns about a home invader hiding were unfounded, only to have someone say "There was a meth addict hiding in my shower," blowing that theory.

Shoot houses are not homes. I have never seen one that has the complicated choke points mine has with multiple rooms and stairs all opening on a narrow, short hallway, and I see less utility in a 31" carbine for dealing with all the nooks and crannies involved than a pistol. But that's me in my house dealing with my family.

Well, you know these trained professionals have climbed in and out of cramped Humvee's, Helicopters, Planes, Cars, and into people's homes and tight buildings with their slung weapon. I'm sure they've considered door handles and banisters. SWAT guys probably do that daily.

Anyway, if you really feel like a slung rifle is not optimal for you, no one is forcing it. Train with what you choose whether that is a handgun or long gun. But I would challenge you to try maneuvering your home with a properly-slung long gun and let us know if it really is a problem. There are usually work-arounds and solutions for these situations. Watch some videos, do some research, take some training, and talk to Military and Law Enforcement about how they approach these situations.

Good luck to you.
 
I prefer a quick adjust, two point sling for a defensive rifle. Something like the VCAS. Mainly for retention and the ability to use my hands for other things.

Ymmv

Same here. When wearing one of these properly, it's pretty much impossible to get hung up on anything.
 
Well, you know these trained professionals have climbed in and out of cramped Humvee's, Helicopters, Planes, Cars, and into people's homes and tight buildings with their slung weapon. I'm sure they've considered door handles and banisters. SWAT guys probably do that daily.

Anyway, if you really feel like a slung rifle is not optimal for you, no one is forcing it. Train with what you choose whether that is a handgun or long gun. But I would challenge you to try maneuvering your home with a properly-slung long gun and let us know if it really is a problem. There are usually work-arounds and solutions for these situations. Watch some videos, do some research, take some training, and talk to Military and Law Enforcement about how they approach these situations.

Good luck to you.
I was just answering the question about what snags stuff. I'm not sure how much of an issue door handles and bannisters are for slings, I just know they snag sleeves, backpack straps and bag handles on occasion.

As for me personally, I don't have kids, so my only issue is one conjunction between several rooms, a hallway and the stairs. I have tried a couple of things and just didn't see how a 30+" rifle would be advantageous in the tight space. Since I don't own an AR, I didn't bother to buy one. I also watched and read as much as I could about using a carbine in close quarters, and never saw anything that really dealt with what I was seeing.

Carbines with slings are the single most effect CQC tool going because they are the most effective in the largest number of circumstances. That is not the same thing as saying that a carbine is the best solution in every circumstance, or that a slung carbine has no limitations over unslung. This thread is about the intersection of generalizations and specifics, since we are talking about our own homes, not homes in the abstract.
 
Wow. Four pages of blather. If you don't like slings, don't use one. This ain't rocket science...

M
 
Wow. Four pages of blather. If you don't like slings, don't use one. This ain't rocket science...

M

From the OP:
"What are thoughts on using a sling on a home defense AR?"
From someone who wants opinions on the pros and cons, to help them make a decision on how to apply slings to their needs. Some very interesting scenarios have been presented, both for and against. It is up to the OP, and other readers, to determine which risks they are more comfortable with, for the benefits to be gained with either method.
 
Some other sling advantages when the sling is properly (in my opinion set up and equipped):




Notice that there is not really any excess material flapping about to snag on anything as some members here seem to be obsessing over, he has effortless control of the carbine, and with the "Sling Ding" up front can lock into barricade positions like say you would defensively. Having used the sling ding under his instruction on a barricade... like a door jamb, the carbine is so solidly planted with you leaning into it that you can pretty much machine gun a target and not have rounds stray out of the group. Shockingly effective, and super easy to deploy.
 
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A bit more on sling set up from Pat McNamara. Simple stuff and pretty effective. Again I ask where is this huge billowing sling snagging on everything in the world that everyone is so worried about? If the sling is going to snag on stuff then you've effectively hugged a lamp, or bannister etc since the sling doesn't protrude past the rifle, or your own limbs. Put it on the rifle, and leave it on.

 
Whenever I start clearing structures I fish my support arm out of the sling so its just around my neck. This allows me to change shoulders quickly and easily to conform to cover when I am clearing doors/rooms/hallways/etc.

Out in the open I wear my sling around my support arm like a regular 2 point "tactical" sling is supposed to be worn.
 
What you just said is apparently rocket surgery for some of the members on here.

Might have better luck teaching a dog quantum physics.... I have a German Shepherd, she's pretty smart, might be worth a try.

I wish it were possible to get some of these guys to actually get some good training.
 
Actually had my rifle out tonight at work. Was crawling through a garden of grape (I think) vines in a back yard. Literally crouched duck walking and at times on my knees crawling through these vines. They the rest of the yard was full of citrus trees I had to navigate. My sling not only helped me to maintain control of my weapon while I was navigating the urban jungle, it didn't hinder my movements at all by getting hung up on the branches and vines.
 
Whenever I start clearing structures I fish my support arm out of the sling so its just around my neck. This allows me to change shoulders quickly and easily to conform to cover when I am clearing doors/rooms/hallways/etc.

Out in the open I wear my sling around my support arm like a regular 2 point "tactical" sling is supposed to be worn.

That's pretty much what I do also. Easy to do and quick. Helps transitioning shoulders tremendously while retaining retention.

I am not Leo or mil clearing rooms. Just a civvy that prefers a 2 point sling on my defensive rifle and I use it like you describe above.
 
I have two opposite opinions, depending on the definition of "sling".

If it is a ten dollar carry strap, just long enough to carry the rifle over your shoulder, then no. It will simply be a nuisance.

If, however, you mean an actual sling that is designed to be used for retention, control and on body stowage/carry, then yes.
 
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