Cross draw revisited.

If you think the positive reasons you mentioned out way
the reasons for strong side carry reasons, by all means go for it.
Other solution would be more practice.

I always thought this fell out of favor because of the possibility of muzzling anyone standing to your left (assuming right handed), and fewer people wear suits these days.

I still sometimes employ crossdraw holsters when I will be distance-driving or during cold/wet weather while wearing a heavy/big coat.

I have a Simply Rugged pancake/crossdraw holster that does a dandy job in crossdraw configuration of keeping my 3" 629 quickly available when I am wandering about wearing one of my down-to-my-thighs West German military snorkel parkas.

Bias against the cross draw goes back at least as far as Bill Jordan's book, No Second Place Winner. It shows that a gun carried that way is more easily snatched from a law officer's holster by an obstreperous hoodlum, a question of gun retention and officer safety. That seems to me a problem arising only with open carry. (They won't grab at what they don't see.)

When I grouse hunt or go on fishing trips I sometimes carry a 4" revolver in cross draw. Reason being simply because it doesn't poke me in the side as much when driving or sitting in the boat seat. There is absolutely no way your going to cross draw and swing the gun around as fast as a strong side holster, if you think that matters.

The big problem I see from a defensive standpoint is that if your in a physical altercation with someone, say they knocked you to the ground and are on top of you there is no way your going to be able to reach across yourself, get your handgun, and get it pointed in the right direction as they will have too much leverage on you if they grab you by the arm. Its not a good plan.

This article from R. K. Campbell, "The case for cross draw holsters for concealed carry"

http://www.shastadefense.com/CrossDrawHolsters.htm

rpenmanparker said:

I am aware that there is a strong negative bias against cross draw among firearm self-defense experts. And certainly its unpopularity with LEOs and other professionals speaks volumes. I understand that the cross draw motion is longer than the same side draw and probably a little slower. Yet it seems to me that there are at least two particular cases when cross draw would be superior.

The first is when driving a car and wearing a seat belt. The cross draw motion must be more effective than scrunching up your arm to get to the pistol on the same side of your body, especially if you are wearing outerwear of any kind. And if there is a console, that can't be helpful for getting to the gun with the same side right hand. Even more so for lefties who have to fight the cramped space between the side of their body and the door.

The other case is the pure overcoat, overshirt, or other outerwear situation with the gun buried underneath. As long as the outwear is open, not buttoned, the hand can cross over and slide inside along the stomach to draw the gun from the opposite side very easily. Not so with same side draw for which the outerwear has to be moved to the side and preferably push behind the back with the same hand as used for the draw.

I can't imagine how cross draw wouldn't be superior in both these cases.

Let's discuss.

Click to expand...

For the cases you mention I use a shoulder holster. However, when hiking with a pack I crossdraw from a fanny pack in front of me. This avoids interference with the pack, straps and hip belt. The only other means would be a chest holster but that gets in the way if you have a harness with a front chest strap. I used to wear a fanny pack for concealment and it is still useful in hot weather and when you might be going in-and-out frequently in places with mixed carry rules (you just leave the fanny pack in the car). I realize a fanny pack is uncool but I find it useful on occasion. My preferred method of carry is strong-side IWB. I am 99.999% of the time alone in the car and use the redneck gun hide of shoving the gun in a holster wedged between the passenger seat and the console and covering it with a baseball cap.

I never carry concealed with a cross draw.
When hunting with a long gun, cross draw keeps a revolver out of the way so there is no butt bumping going on.
Hope nobody gets the wrong picture in their head.

Don't automatically assume that you have to clear your clothing to fire a weapon from cross draw if the aggressor is approaching from that side. Especially with a revolver, which is when the practice was in it's heyday. It's noted in old photos of those who carried guns out West pre 1899, too. I that regard we had moved to wearing pants with belts so a minimized holster carrying the gun cross draw was a workable solution on horseback or going about town.

Another consideration is that LEO/mil's predominantly carry on a pistol belt of some kind worn over garments as part of a uniform to identify them in their duties. A civilian, not. So the continued emphasis of doing it "right" for "professionals" is constantly repeated by a large number of instructors, who teach large numbers of professionals who wear uniforms. For a courier of legal papers or financial instruments it serves to their disadvantage to be so noticeable, it's like having your attache handcuffed to your wrist. Oh, you must be carrying Very Important Paper. Better a concealed gun cross draw or shoulder which makes you more difficult to spot. In the days of banks sending their checks and financials to a local clearinghouse most drivers were in nondescript Ford and Chevy family cars, civilian clothing, and concealed weapons. I never saw any of them with a belt holster. Just wasn't done. They all came to the gas station I was working at and observing them was a daily exercise.

One stated he just left the gun between his legs barrel pointing down at the seat and an empty zipper bag lying over it flat. This was the 1970's, things like making a case for where it would go in an accident weren't as important as self protection. They knew their routine would eventually reveal themselves to the observant so it was a matter of being prepared. We are more concerned with random events.

The reknown experts of the day were largely training professionals in uniform, and it's apparent when you look at the gear for non uniformed there is a distinct difference in application, especially in an era when concealed carry was discouraged - detectives who did needed to keep a low profile so that the perps who did wouldn't know. A cop in uniform was a dead giveaway and something to avoid. So when I was picking up my new to me revolver it was nice to see a box of older shoulder holsters recently purchased from a gunstore owner who's heyday was pre-Glock. There were choices in which .38 snub shoulder holster I could buy, and I did. In those days cops dressed in suits, a shoulder holster of good quality was the norm, not the exception. Lets not forget this even continued into the days of Hollywood filming Miami Vice with S&W stainless 10mm's carried because the FBI had reacted to some shooting incident in Florida.

Tactics and gunwear based on pistol belt use don't always translate well to you and me, be mindful of those police officers who died in the line of duty when a passerby just walked up and began blasting. Sad commentary of the day yet we could at least react more positively with a gun already aimed in that direction under our shirt or jacket rather than struggling with a seat belt over our holster located at a 4:00 position.

Cross draw, ans especially a shoulder holster, is out of the question for me while afield with a shoulder arm. Why? I shoot a handgun right handed, and a shoulder arm left handed.

Your premise holds water though, especially seated in an automobile.

And, at least with my revolvers, sweeping a bystander with the muzzle is a minor inconvenience in a desperate situation.

Bob Wright

Detective Fish on "Rockford Files," anyone?

In all seriousness, if for any reason you spend a lot of time in a sitting position (desk, wheelchair, driving, or a dozen other reasons), it's nice to have a shoulder holster for at least one handgun. I have three; one for my 1911, one for my CZ-75, and one for my S&W 27-2.

Chalk me up as one of the guys that's never been a fan. Only benefit I've ever considered is fairly easy concealment if you wear some kind of jacket or coat all the time.

For long vehicle driving I have a second gun in a holster secured beneath the steering column. It's the fastest and most accessible method aside from having one in your hand already.

For woods carry a good standard OWB has always been plenty comfortable and easily accessible. Same goes for CC.

I don't worry too much in my day to day about being able to get to my gun lightning fast while in the truck as my travel to and from work is 99 percent interstate travel.

I sometimes like cross draw for wilderness carry of larger revolvers. It also allows easier access with the non-dominant hand....should that be necessary. And yes, it's good for driving. But I prefer to locate the holster quite far forward so it's not a long reach. Not great for concealed carry or crowds, as far as I'm concerned.

I carried crossdraw for about a decade. Then about a decade ago, I started carrying appendix carry. Without question, my draw time is shorter and more reliable.

Recall, what you perceive as advantageous when driving - the pistol in the free space of the shoulder/lap belt - is damning when in a passenger seat.

No free lunches.

There’s plenty of instruction available by well known professionals on how to employ cross draw rigs for concealed carry. In very, very few instances is cross draw the right option. As with most of your threads, including this one, I expect an inexperienced and naive rebuttal, explicating the “superiority” of your method...

Naturally. Whichever side bears the buckle will be more difficult to access.

This said as someone who has been carrying lefty for over 25yrs, and have driven over a million documented miles, most of which included my EDC’s.

Since this is America, it’s also fair to recognize, a large segment of our population (pun not intended) aren’t physically capable of a rapid cross draw, especially in the confines of a vehicle.

Crossdraw used to be more popular. So did weaver stance and Jheri curls. Some guys like to hang onto out-dated gear and techniques more than others, and anything is better than nothing, so “ok” is enough for some folks. But there’s not much sense in being willingly ignorant to improved techniques and gear, or pretending inferior techniques are superior because you feel some natural attraction to an outmoded method.

It’s simple physiology - crossdraw requires more movement than strong side or centerline. Sure, you posit a “same side” attacker as a shorter distance to target, but video yourself sometime making the reach and draw - use some video editing software to trace the path traveled by your hand and the firearm. When you see this on video, it’s very clear why the split times are longer when running cross draw, even for thoroughly trained and practiced professionals.