Hog Poison - Warfarin Failed, Now Sodium Nitrite Has Setback

I have to chuckle some. I've been hearing for 10 years about how desperate landowners are to curb the problem of feral hogs, and so on, in Texas. I've been talking to people for a decade about it, certainly enough people that my name was out there - and never been asked or been invited to shoot hogs. All I've seen is landowners charging money for hog hunts.

If they want to cure the hog problem remove hogs from the Texas hunting licence requirement. Make it legal to shoot them on sight, anywhere, anytime, by anyone, within the realms of safety. And get people out to shoot them in drives; a crowd of people to drive them into guns. This is how it is done in Europe, Scandinavia and elsewhere to shoot wild boar. Make a festival out of it; food, drink and social culture.

Double Naught Spy said:

In what demented world do folks think the government should mandate giving away the rights of landowners to the public??? The self entitlement of such claims is mind boggling.

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I did not suggest infringing on the rights of landowners. If they want dead hogs and can't do iit themselves, evidently they need to get people in to do it for them. Otherwise *suffer* and don't complain about it.

There's a rancher near where my Pop lived who has a hog problem,,,
He was at the feed store one day bitching about them.

So I told him that me and several friends would be happy to do some extermination work for him,,,
His reply was, "You can come out and shoot as many as you want, for $50.00 a hog."

Go figure.

Aarond

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aarondhgraham said:

"You can come out and shoot as many as you want, for $50.00 a hog."

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I think that my reply would have been: "You don't need to pay us that much, my ammo is only going to cost me about $1 per piggy."

Hey R_______, I have this terrible problem at home... Uh.. would you pay me to help me fix it....... Please?

Sistema1927 said:

I think that my reply would have been: "You don't need to pay us that much, my ammo is only going to cost me about $1 per piggy."

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I think I would have thrown that amount right back at him saying we';; only charge YOU $50 a hog to get rid of them

50 bucks a hog is dirt cheap! Have you looked into pig hunting ranches in Texas?

I can't bring myself to go pay to hunt pigs since all I need do is walk back in the woods in the evening and wait on 'em. But, if you don't have good hunting, live in town, no land or something, pig hunting is at least affordable. DEER hunting is for the rich.

I do not believe in poison in the environment for ANY reason. Trap 'em, helicopter hunt 'em, make all the money off 'em you wish, but poison ain't the answer. I think you make 'em affordable to the hunter and a good income for the ranch owner, sorta like it is now, then the damage is at least somewhat offset by the income to the rancher. I do not blame ranchers for making money off the problem. They need to be reimbursed for the damages that they get from the pig problem. Get an outfitter in, let him charge to hunt and split the income with him. That way everyone gets a benefit. Just sorta the way I look at it.

I do not blame ranchers for making money off the problem. They need to be reimbursed for the damages that they get from the pig problem

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Maybe so, but in the scenario above, the rancher was raising quite a fuss about them. He was offered a solution but didn't like it enough to agree; therefore his pig problem must not be that bad. As for the need to be reimbursed, that is what insurance is for. If he was desperate enough, he'd open the gates to one and all and have them kill all of them before any MORE damage was done

If I were him, I would NOT want a bunch of moron city people running around on my ranch shooting everything in sight and then suing me when they fell out of a tree stand or something. No thanks, you want on MY land, the land I pay taxes on, you pay and sign a worthless release of liability (questionable in court). I wouldn't just throw the gates open to any idiot, either, for no pay. Bad enough when someone pays, but at least it shows me they are serious about hunting.

Reading posts here about setting up drives gives me the chills. That's a good way to get people shot. That's a good way to go to court.

BTW, hogs do cause damage on my place and my neighbors, but I consider the beasts an asset, anyway. I like the year around night hunting. What ticks me off worse is when somebody's cows get out down the road and come eat my cabbage. Now THAT is a problem.

BTW, pitch clay targets are supposedly hazardous to hos; maybe he should set up a sporting clays course, and have feeders in the area........

MCgunner said:

If I were him, I would NOT want a bunch of moron city people running around on my ranch shooting everything in sight and then suing me when they fell out of a tree stand or something. No thanks, you want on MY land, the land I pay taxes on, you pay and sign a worthless release of liability (questionable in court). I wouldn't just throw the gates open to any idiot, either, for no pay. Bad enough when someone pays, but at least it shows me they are serious about hunting.

Reading posts here about setting up drives gives me the chills. That's a good way to get people shot. That's a good way to go to court.

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I agree and oppose poisons.

They use drives all over the world, particularly Scandinavia and Europe. It's not rocket science to set one up right, without those "city people".

Sure, it's your land, your taxes. The hogs are your problem.

There are plenty of folk who will pay to hunt deer despite the cost Evidently there aren't many who'll pay to kill hogs. Not even a scratch on what is presented as a serious problem for landowners.

Hogs will be in the narleyest patches of rose hedge. They'll stay put while drivers walk right past. It's questionable whether a drive would work in much of the habitat they occupy. At any rate, this ain't Scandinavia. I wouldn't risk the liability as a land owner. I could be one snake bite away from a lawsuit if nothing else.

Texas ranchers pay taxes? Where I live farms and ranches are "Ag-exempt" from property taxes.

The term "ag exempt" does not mean you pay NO taxes, just means you pay LESS taxes than you would if it weren't under production.

We have no ag exemption. We do have a senior's exemption and a homestead exemption, but no ag exemption. Not enough property. Has to be 10 acres in this county. I have 10 acres in Calhoun county and it was under an ag exemption when I bought it in 88. I was paying 10 bucks a year on it, lost the exemption, went up to 80 bucks. Then it went up to finally over 660 a year. I'm trying to sell the place now as I no longer hunt there. It's about 100 miles from me and I'd like to get the money out of it to pay this place off.

So, if the 8:1 ag exemption thing is right, I'd be paying around 90 bucks just off the cuff estimating. That'd be much better, but still paying taxes. Now, you take the guy in that area that has 1000 acres (not a whole lot of land for cows there), he'd be paying $9000 a year. That ain't "nothing".

MCgunner said:

Hogs will be in the narleyest patches of rose hedge. They'll stay put while drivers walk right past. It's questionable whether a drive would work in much of the habitat they occupy. At any rate, this ain't Scandinavia. I wouldn't risk the liability as a land owner. I could be one snake bite away from a lawsuit if nothing else.

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Drives are not going to be a panacea for everyone's pig problem. It does of course depend on topography etc

A lawsuit can bite any landowner with anyone on their property, there for any reason.

In your case you don't have a problem with them. Point is that those that do are not going to get much help if A) they are too scared to do anything about it that involves third party help, even if those people are in their rural community and B) thinking that people are going to pay them to help them with their problem.

MCgunner said:

The term "ag exempt" does not mean you pay NO taxes, just means you pay LESS taxes than you would if it weren't under production.

We have no ag exemption. We do have a senior's exemption and a homestead exemption, but no ag exemption. Not enough property. Has to be 10 acres in this county. I have 10 acres in Calhoun county and it was under an ag exemption when I bought it in 88. I was paying 10 bucks a year on it, lost the exemption, went up to 80 bucks. Then it went up to finally over 660 a year. I'm trying to sell the place now as I no longer hunt there. It's about 100 miles from me and I'd like to get the money out of it to pay this place off.

So, if the 8:1 ag exemption thing is right, I'd be paying around 90 bucks just off the cuff estimating. That'd be much better, but still paying taxes. Now, you take the guy in that area that has 1000 acres (not a whole lot of land for cows there), he'd be paying $9000 a year. That ain't "nothing".

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Thanks for the clarification

It does seem counterproductive ... I used to do permitting for temporary rights of way across land ... Consider what damage a crowd with firearms could do to property ... it only starts with litter, there's broken gates and fencing, livestock loose, hurt or worse ...

I think the idea of a festival as in post #2. There would be some $$ involved as well as insurance and waivers but if you organized it correctly it could be done to the benefit to all.

Double Naught Spy said:

https://www.timesrecordnews.com/sto...ack-feral-hog-poison-testing-texas/629868002/

They said it was safe. They said that there would be minimal by-deaths because other animals could not get to the poison. Now they have nearly 200 dead birds that should not be death because of it.

Much more work needs to be done on the matter.

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^^^^^ Yes. And that is just the birds that were found. No telling how many flew away to die at a spot other than the test area.

While I feel that Sodium Nitrite at least shows some promise (vs. Warfarin), I hope no efforts to 'fast track' it will occur as was the case with the proposed Warfarin product.

The issue is going to be with the delivery method and composition of the product. Yes, you can devise some contraption that 'most' other wildlife can/will not be able to access. But IF the product is not made such that it is easily picked up, easily swallowed AND is irresistibly palatable...then you will always have residue.

Even IF the hogs consume 'most' of the product if they are in the process of eating and become startled, they will run away leaving it on the ground. In the article/link you provided it was suggested the newest 'version' might be the size and consistency of small 'bite size' marshmallows.

Well....I can tell you (without spending the first dime on research)...the hogs will grab big mouthfuls, or scoop out as much of the product as possible from the dispenser before settling to eat any of it. Pretty much guarantees that some will be left for birds and other critters.

IF the product is to be effective on hogs (even though their tolerance is lower than other animals) it will need to be sufficiently potent....that a SINGLE feeding is likely to prove fatal.

Basically any attempt to 'poison' feral hogs is rife with challenges. I hope they do their homework.

Flintknapper said:

^^^^^ Yes. And that is just the birds that were found. No telling how many flew away to die at a spot other than the test area.

While I feel that Sodium Nitrite at least shows some promise (vs. Warfarin), I hope no efforts to 'fast track' it will occur as was the case with the proposed Warfarin product.

The issue is going to be with the delivery method and composition of the product. Yes, you can devise some contraption that 'most' other wildlife can/will not be able to access. But IF the product is not made such that it is easily picked up, easily swallowed AND is irresistibly palatable...then you will always have residue.

Even IF the hogs consume 'most' of the product if they are in the process of eating and become startled, they will run away leaving it on the ground. In the article/link you provided it was suggested the newest 'version' might be the size and consistency of small 'bite size' marshmallows.

Well....I can tell you (without spending the first dime on research)...the hogs will grab big mouthfuls, or scoop out as much of the product as possible from the dispenser before settling to eat any of it. Pretty much guarantees that some will be left for birds and other critters.

IF the product is to be effective on hogs (even though their tolerance is lower than other animals) it will need to be sufficiently potent....that a SINGLE feeding is likely to prove fatal.

Basically any attempt to 'poison' feral hogs is rife with challenges. I hope they do their homework.

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Not to mention that when they run off and die, poisoned animals will give anything that eats them a dose.

This is somewhat like the deer population problem in many areas of the country. They're bending over backward to find anything, ANYTHING, other than just letting people shoot and eat them. Oh no, we can't have that.

George P said:

Maybe so, but in the scenario above, the rancher was raising quite a fuss about them. He was offered a solution but didn't like it enough to agree; therefore his pig problem must not be that bad. As for the need to be reimbursed, that is what insurance is for. If he was desperate enough, he'd open the gates to one and all and have them kill all of them before any MORE damage was done

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^^^^^^
I'm going to resist an in-depth reply to this....except to say I can't remember a post (recently) more abundant with ignorance.

I don't say that to be 'insulting'...so please accept this in the spirit in which it is offered. There seems to be no shortage of people who do not understand what it really takes to kill hogs.

NOT just disturb them, NOT just run them over onto the neighbors property (swapping hogs with your neighbor does nothing to solve the problem).

It is both amusing and sad at the same time...that people (most of them inexperienced) hold themselves up as the "Solution" to the poor, dumb rancher's troubles. Yes Sir....if only he would allow them the opportunity...they'd just walk right in and wipe out those pigs "Kill ALL of them".

Pfffffft.........! I'll leave it at that. It's been discussed at length here before.

My suggestion: You want to hunt pigs, buy some land...deal with the pigs that are on it...and THEN come back and we will talk. You will have a new outlook Sir, I promise.

Flint.

Oh please.
Hogs are another target opportunity. We have as many here in FL as you do in TX; except we kill them; we don't whine about it while trying to get folks to pay for them. If you want them gone, the go about doing it. If you want to make money, like deer hunting "clubs" then do that. Either way, stop whining.

George P said:

Oh please.
Hogs are another target opportunity. We have as many here in FL as you do in TX; except we kill them; we don't whine about it while trying to get folks to pay for them. If you want them gone, the go about doing it. If you want to make money, like deer hunting "clubs" then do that. Either way, stop whining.

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No whining here....just trying to keep things factual. To that end....you will note that Texas has many times the population of feral hogs that Florida does. (1.5 to 2.6 million depending on which study you choose). Florida...a bit over 500k. Annual harvest in Texas in excess of 750,000. More than the entire estimated population of your State. So I'd say we are in fact 'killing' them.

So rather than continue to post mis-information (through willful ignorance), just study a bit (please).

Now..I do have a couple of questions for you.

1. Is it common practice in your Great State (Florida) for private Land Owners to allow the public to come in and kill/control their hogs?

2. If the answer is yes to question # 1....then how do you reconcile the supposed effectiveness of this method with the increasing population of hogs in your State?

Texas:

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-10-states-to-hunt-hogs-in-the-us/

http://agrilife.org/bexarcounty/fil...opulation-Growth-Density-Harvest-in-Texas.pdf

https://www.texasobserver.org/turning-tail/


Florida population

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw322

Harvest

http://www.jacksonville.com/article/20150214/sports/801239392