9MM Primer Test

Nice shooting as usual
Thanks for taking the time and effort for the additional testing and posting the results, interesting results.

S+Bs look slower again (not an issue just interesting)
I had been using S+Bs for the last couple years (changed form CCIs because I could get S+Bs cheap at Cabelas on sale) changing back to CCI since Cabelas does not seem to have good sales on the S+Bs any more and supply is not as
good as the CCIs. Not unhappy with the S+Bs at all, just a supply issue.
A couple SDs different on the S+Bs so I would say the results are good enough to say they are slower.
(of course I'm not a statistician so I am looking at it from a casual viewpoint)

I got to the range after going into work for awhile. We took an air handler off of the roof today. Big reach for the crane. Had to remove some weight from the unit.

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How many ton unit is that air conditioner? 100 ton or bigger, that's for sure. That's a big boy!

I want to thank you also for the primer test, I have always heard people say that this primer or that primer would change the outcome drastically or not change it at all.
Now we can all see what difference there actually is. I too, am surprised that Fed is at the top for velocity.

As for velocities, those aren't really huge differences. And at relatively close distances of most pistol shots, 10-15 yds, I wouldn't think it would matter. Now out to 50yds it probably would make some difference I'd think.

That's what I'm thinking to. There isn't enough difference to make me change from the Winchester primers I have used for over 40 years. I have always wondered though.
I've never had the problem of light strikes with any of my guns so I guess there's no real reason to change to Federal from what I've always used.

I am not sure we can deduce that one primer is "hotter" than another for this test. All we can say is that the velocities are higher or lower.

It may be hotter, or maybe one brand disperses the sparks into a larger scatter pattern, or who knows what else could be causing the velocity difference.

The bottom line I guess is that it is irrelevant to the test results. The results definitely show a velocity pattern becoming evident, especially since both runs showed similar rankings with each manufacturer.

Pretty cool stuff! Thanks again!

Walkalong, thanks for the work and posting of your results.
I usually stick with CCIs, then some Remingtons and Winchester in the mix. I don't live close enough to a Cabelas for the sales they usually have on S&Bs.
Makes me wish I had time to do some testing of my own.

Nature Boy said:

I wonder how the various primer results would change if a different powder was used? It’s something that’s been rolling around in my head regarding some of my rifle loads.

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I can say that powder can make a difference when comparing small <> large primer in 45acp. While most powders did not vary more than ~35 fps between large and small primers, I saw over 100 fps difference with PB powder, and 180 fps difference with Trailboss.

Thanks again, Walkalong, for performing this test and sharing the results.

Toprudder said:

I can say that powder can make a difference when comparing small <> large primer in 45acp. While most powders did not vary more than ~35 fps between large and small primers, I saw over 100 fps difference with PB powder, and 180 fps difference with Trailboss.

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Walkalong said:

I have seen the same thing. When I tried Trailboss with some plated bullets in pistol calibers the velocity was very erratic in some, and that was using the same primer.

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Hodgdon/IMR claims Trail Boss is the substitute for IMR SR4759 but it's not even close. They did he a disservice when they discontinued the three SR powders, more so the two 47xx powders.

Such minor differences make me wonder why I care what brand I buy...or even if I care if they're small rifle or pistol primers. Ok, the small rifle are a little hotter. But only about 3% giving or take a few FPS. If I shot a mixed load, it would likely open up the groups....but if you shoot a uniform load with the same primers, at least they should land in the same spot.

Great work, Walkalong.

Such minor differences make me wonder why I care what brand I buy...or even if I care if they're small rifle or pistol primers. Ok, the small rifle are a little hotter. But only about 3% giving or take a few FPS. If I shot a mixed load, it would likely open up the groups....but if you shoot a uniform load with the same primers, at least they should land in the same spot.

Great work, Walkalong.

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Exactly, Most of us use the same primer for most of our Pistol or rifle loads. When we develop these same loads with the same primers we will in effect, get the same velocity/accuracy as Walkalong got with some of his loads here. That is why it is so important to work up your own loads with your firearms to get the best results with them with what ever primer your using.
If you need more heat, then Walkalongs test show you what primer to use. But just because the primer you use doesn't produce the best results with a particular load doesn't mean it won't with a different powder. It is just up to us to find it. That's the hard part.

Walkalong, I see a little firing pin wipe on your primers. It that common with this gun?

Wow, those are pretty good dimples for them not to have popped! Have you pulled them down to look at the primers? I wonder if, in all that, the priming compound got dislodged or broken up.

Ran bullet drop numbers on 9mm 124gr FMJ-RN bullets using .149 BC for 50yd drop comparison to see how much velocity change really equals for up/down group dispersion. As a long range BR guy up/down group dispersion was the name of the game. So I was curious what those numbers really are for a avg pistol at 50yds.

MV 50yds drop
1100 3.51
1120 3.39
1140 3.29
1160 3.19
1180 3.08
1200 2.98

If we go with a worst case scenario in that our reloaded rounds have 100fps of MV dispersion we are looking at a theoretical up/down group dispersion of .53"

And it looking at the numbers of Walkalong's actual primer tests showed around a 23/24fps avg dispersion we are talking about .1". that boils down to 1/8" up/down on velocity changes alone.

I don't know about you guys but I can't shoot a pistol that well at 50yds to tell the difference between 100fps dispersion let alone 20fps. Keep in mind this is pure math and doesn't take into account how you particular pistol likes or dislikes certain loads. This is just pure drop table math only.

Walkalong,
How long did you shoot BR? I shot long range (600 and 1000yd) BR for many years. But also had an old LV rifle I shot in several regular BR group and score matches around the SE region with. I shot at Mickey Coleman's fall match back in 2005 or 2006??. Managed a .2XX" at 200 at his range that day. The rest of the match isn't worth writing about. But had a ball that weekend.

anyone ever want to have fun.... put up a target 25yds (or what your are comfortable with) and put a layer of honey or old grease on the paper and wait for the flies to show up. Have 2 or more of your buddies already setup with scoped 22s. Tell them to bring a pocket full of dollar bills and let the games begin! First one to connect collects that pot and start another round.

Steve in NC said:

up/down group dispersion of .53" at 50 yards.

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NRA Precision Pistol (Bullseye Pistol) X ring ......................1.695 inch at 50 yards.

Ask a High Master if it makes a difference. My guess is , yes it does.

Walkalong said:

The four rounds with CCI #41 "milspec" small rifle primers that failed to fire

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I have failure to fire with those primers in my son's .223 savage rifle. Maybe 10%-ish