9MM Primer Test

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Walkalong, Aug 19, 2018.

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  1. papaairbear

    papaairbear Member

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    And this is the goodest comment I've read on this line of thought.
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Dentist on Monday, rained Tuesday, cut grass today, should be able to get to the range tomorrow.
     
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  3. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

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    Best o luck in this endeavor, looking forward to your report.
     
  4. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    I would like to thank walkalong for his time and efforts in this trials, i am looking forward to the results and specifically the difference between SRP and SPP, i don't have a chrono to test differences and have been using the same primers since I started loading
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't expect a large difference, people who used small pistol mag primers or small rifle primers in place of standard small pistol primers during the great run on components reported anywhere from "no difference" to "slight increase in velocities", IIRC.

    Barring unforeseen circumstances I am headed to the range after work today.
     
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  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Many years ago, i used the Fed 200 in an M16. I just found the load info in an old ammo can the other day, so i am 100% positive of what primer was used.

    I am guessing the pistol primer is only good to about 40,000 PSI. Not for a rifle. IMO. Or the primers were defective?? M16A1Bolt.JPG Federal 200 Primer.JPG

    I am interested in the test and i don't even own a 9mm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  7. Capt.Roll

    Capt.Roll Member

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    Looking forward to seeing your results and comments. What will you consider to be a significant difference?
     
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    The old Fed 200 was meant for mild rifle like .22 Hornet etc. Today they label their small pistol mag primer 200. Same mix? Same cup thickness? I have no idea.
     
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  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    A consistent 15 FPS difference would be interesting, a 25 FPS difference would be significant IMHO. A 50 FPS difference would be..... wow, didn't expect that.
     
  10. mdi

    mdi Member

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  11. Capt.Roll

    Capt.Roll Member

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    Let's hope there are some 50 FPS differences in your testing results. At typical pistol distances I'll be curious to see if there will be a felt recoil and accuracy difference.
     
  12. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I have no idea why any company bothers. It's also like the Remington 6 1/2 primers, they are only meant for the 22 Hornet, why bother? I'm sure a standard rifle primers will be just fine for that application. It sounds strange to continue manufacturing a primer for such a limited use especially when there are other good options.
     
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  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    My plinker load that I am using for this test is often shot in a 5" Colt 1911. With WSP or CCI500 primers it always clears the brass from the gun. When I tried S&B SS primers it would occasionally catch a case. That is a real world difference to me. I have chronoed both the WSP and CCI 500 primers with this load before, more than once, but I haven't chronoed the load using the S&B primers. No matter what this small test shows, there is enough difference that occasionally a case would fail to eject without getting caught.
     
  14. dh1633pm
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    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    When loading brass for testing, I use a sharpie to mark the brass with either the load or other variables.

    Can't wait to read your results. And thank for sharing your experiment.
     
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  15. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    When I did my test in 40s&w the trend I saw seemed to indicate that Czech (S&B) and Bosnia (Unis Ginex) primers produced lower velocities compared to CCI500 and WSP. With a normal light plinker load I assume the lower velocities could probably cause some failures to eject. It will be interesting to see what differences you find between the different primers. Following are my results from just 4 different primers:

    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: Federal
    Trim: .843"
    COL: 1.125"
    Xtreme, 165gr, RNFPHPCB, BE86, 5.8gr, CCI500
    Average: 908
    ES: 17
    SD: 7.3
    Velocities: 904, 915, 907, 916, 899
    Test Date: 04/21/2017

    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: Federal
    Trim: .843"
    COL: 1.125"
    Xtreme, 165gr, RNFPHPCB, BE86, 5.8gr, WSP
    Average: 907
    ES: 36
    SD: 13.5
    Velocities: 922, 886, 913, 911, 903
    Test Date: 04/21/2017

    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: Federal
    Trim: .843"
    COL: 1.125"
    Xtreme, 165gr, RNFPHPCB, BE86, 5.8gr, SBPRSP
    Average: 886
    ES: 28
    SD: 11.6
    Velocities: 894, 900, 888, 872, 877
    Test Date: 04/21/2017

    40SW, P229, 3.9"
    Case: Federal
    Trim: .843"
    COL: 1.125"
    Xtreme, 165gr, RNFPHPCB, BE86, 5.8gr, GINEXSP
    Average: 880
    ES: 30
    SD: 12.1
    Velocities: 864, 883, 894, 872, 888
    Test Date: 04/21/2017
     
  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Made it to the range after work as planned. I woke up with a headache, had a long day (Getting ready for JCAHO. Should be here next month.) and was edgy when I got to the range, not a good day for accuracy testing, but I never really planned to worry about that and just get numbers. I was sloppy the first mag of ten (The three worst shots hanging out were from the first mag), then settled down some. I fired fairly quickly and just got it done. Mag after mag the hole got bigger. :)

    In hindsight I should have thought to bring my 1911 in case the XDm did not set off some of the rifle primers because I knew there was a chance of that. The XDm failed to set off 2 of the S&B small rifle primers, and 6 of the CCI #41 small rifle primers. All others fired. I saved the ones that failed to fire and will try them in my 1911 later.

    Not overly surprisingly a couple of the rifle primers gave the highest average FPS, but not by a lot (Less than 25 FPS), and the other rifle primers were pretty close to the pistol primer numbers. The lowest ES & SD was the 4 shot average of course, no surprise there, and ten rounds don't give definitive ES & SD numbers anyway.

    So, kind of neat to see the numbers, and it kind of validates what folks said about not seeing big differences when using small pistol mag or small rifle primers in place of standard small pistol primers when they could not find them.

    I am tumbling the brass and will sort out cases into a smaller weight spread and test a near full power load using Silhouette under the RMR 124 Gr MPR JHP. I hope to be able to get enough cases with a smaller weight spread to do ten rounds with four or five primers. Which ones should I do? I am thinking the S&B SR & CCI #41 are out.

    9MM Primer Test - Target Pic 1.jpg 9MM Primer Test - Target Pic 2.jpg 9MM Primer Test - Target Pic 3.jpg 9MM Primer Test - Excel Sheet Pic 2.jpg 9MM Primer Test - Excel Sheet Pic 3.JPG
     
  17. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Why are you weighing them? What does their weight have to do with this test?
     
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, hopefully when they weigh nearly the same their capacity is very as well. I never have nor ever will do the water capacity method. Never did it with 6 PPC cases for my Benchrest gun. It shot pretty well. :)

    BB In Bench Block Pic 1.JPG Sorted BB Pic 2.JPG Fly Guts.JPG DSC03460.JPG Southeastern Regionals 2000.JPG Rosenthal Action BR Rifle Pic 2.JPG
     
  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    We have already established that you think any results I may get are skewed and worthless, and that's Ok, but in the spirit it is intended, it's an interesting test for some of us.
     
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  20. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Nice right up, looks like the S+B SPs are a little milder.

    I just can't help myself I have to ask if you shot the fly on purpose?:)
    What is the preferred bullet for hunting flies at range?


    I used to work at a Hospital JCAHO visits were always "fun"
    Upper management always seemed to get their knickers in a knot when it was time for JCAHO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yea, lots of it, and it has gotten even more fun over the last few years. :)
     
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  22. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    [​IMG]
    Wow, wow, wow !!
     
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  23. wrench459

    wrench459 Member

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    Thanks walkalong for your test results.
    Next up is pocket pistol testing?
     
  24. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    In reality you could have said all those strings were fired with the same primers and most would not think otherwise. 23fps from the slowest to highest AV is not huge. (like you said) I was surprised to see the fastest standard pistol primers (Federal) were only 13fps slower than the fastest SRP. The Federal SPP were actually faster than the Federal SRP, again surprising.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to run the test and then report the results. I appreciate it .
     
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  25. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    As do I. I am new to a lot of this, but, if I am interpreting the data correctly, it seems that while the S&B produced the lowest velocities, they were second in consistency (for SPP) only to the Winchester. If that theory carries over, I wonder if the same, improved consistency of the rifle primers, would exhibit similar results with rifle loads. At any rate, I found this to be extremely informative, as a reinforcement that primer compounds are different between manufacturers, and may produce similar performance, but not exact replicas. Be safe when altering components. Thanks again for your time and effort with this!
     
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