Ultimate Bear Stopper
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Phaedrus/69
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If I was hunting I suppose I'd use whatever I took the deer with. Although I don't know why I'd be hunting deer on Kodiak! Personally I don't have a ton of trigger time behind big magnums. Probably I'd be crapping my pants if a bear was circling and woofing, but in that moment if I had my 12 ga loaded with Brenneke Black Magic or DDuplex Monolit slugs I'd be fairly confident that the gun would its job if I did mine. Probably an '06 loaded with 220 gr bullets would be my likely weapon of choice. But I do find the .375 Ruger intriguing; seems like it would do the job on anything in North America.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Thing about bears is that they are not Cape buffalo. You don't need an elephant rifle to flatten one. It doesn't take a +500gr .500NE to exit. Out of the heavy rifles .375H&H and up, a controlled expansion, bonded bullet is probably best. Out of handguns, solids are better. Somewhere in the middle, a 400gr .45-70 with the right bullet will certainly be more than adequate.
You still relying on that outdated USFS study???
Bill1225
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Me personally from my experience growing up and living on Kodiak/ Afognak is get a nice all weather 338 win or 375 h&h for general purpose hunting and bear protection or if you want more compact geared more towards just defense I would opt for guide gun in 45/70 with a set of ghost rings on it .
Skylerbone
Member
I’d choose the rifle by buttstock. Widest I could find because I don’t want to flounder around looking for the paddle when I’m scrambling into the boat. I have no want to kill a bear or test his resolve to feed himself.
I think my reply to that would be “Have the bears since that study gotten tougher?”
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No but the bullets we have available are drastically better! There were better choices even then. They used the most common, milquetoast samples possible. Should the .45-70 be judged by the 405gr Remington factory load? Should the 12ga be judged by the Foster slug? Should the .44Mag be judged by a generic 240gr jacketed loading? No. The study was outdated and limited when it was done. It is certainly more than outdated now. What is more asinine are the conclusions I've seen made based on it. We'd be better off if it disappeared off the world wide web.
The one guide I've talked to that does Big Coastals has a 375 H&H. He did say he was aquanted with a Guide that had used a .450 Marlin but had gotten rid of it. He had some issues with adequate penetration when shooting a wounded bear from a bad angle. It doesn't have enough ump to shoot end to end. I would expect the .45/70 to behave similarly but again I'm just living vicariously. I'm not likely to ever have to face one and have zero experience at that game.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Then he used the wrong bullet.
I certainly would NOT use the 350gr Hornady for anything that bites back.
Flatbush Harry
Member
A number of years ago I built a rifle for Alaska. It began life as a Remington XCR II in .375 H&H. I took the barreled action (SS with factory Nitride coating, express sights) and had it free-floated and glass-bedded in a Bell&Carlson Weatherby aluminum bedding block stock, replaced the X-Mark trigger with a Timney trigger that was factory set at 3-1/2# and added Leupold QD bases and rings to allow choice for sighting depending on what I'd be doing. Four rounds of .375 H&H should work out with 300 gr solids and softs. For big Kodiaks only central nervous hits are guaranteed show-stoppers...hits that don't take out the CNS may kill a bear, even quickly, but won't guarantee a stop, and this is true with any rifle rounds no matter how big.
The rifle I built was pretty weatherproof...the action was corrosion-resistant and the stock won't warp. It was superbly accurate, <1MOA with Federal Premium with 260 gr Accubond. Were I starting over today, I'd go for a Sako 85 Kodiak or Winchester M70 Alaskan and skip the cutomizing. I believe that the rifle choice is at least as important as the caliber choice.
It was also a wonderful Elk/Moose rifle with 260gr Nosler AccuBonds and the recoil felt a lot like a Rem 870 shotgun firing slugs.
Good hunting,
The rifle I built was pretty weatherproof...the action was corrosion-resistant and the stock won't warp. It was superbly accurate, <1MOA with Federal Premium with 260 gr Accubond. Were I starting over today, I'd go for a Sako 85 Kodiak or Winchester M70 Alaskan and skip the cutomizing. I believe that the rifle choice is at least as important as the caliber choice.
It was also a wonderful Elk/Moose rifle with 260gr Nosler AccuBonds and the recoil felt a lot like a Rem 870 shotgun firing slugs.
Good hunting,
I've found the only three big rifles I've been able to tolerate where the .375 H&H, .404 Jeffrey and a Heym Double in .450/400. I agree the rifle has a lot to do with it in both function and recoil (The Heym 89B pointed nice but ain't light and has a super stock design). I'm fortunate to have friends that make the kind of money that allows for them to make trips to Alaska and Africa and allows me access to the kind of equipment that entails. However Alaska is a stretch with my budget and Africa is a pipe dream.
I, have seen this come up several times. Not sure there is a ferfict answer. Every one has there own ideas. To bad you could not set out a few claymores, then pick them up when finished.
Varminterror
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Didn’t the other threads about bears and wolves just get locked down, for good reason?
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
The word "stopper" in the title should automatically lock a thread.
DannyLandrum
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My buddy just shot a deer on Kodiak island about a month and a half ago (with a borrowed AR15 in 5.56). He worked there all summer in an extremely remote cabin, with 2 other people, catching salmon in shore-based nets, then when the fishing was done, he had a week before he had to come back home. He said he saw very few bears - didn't have any problems with them.
I don't know how else to describe it. A rifle used for hunting has a different purpose than one used for last ditch close up defense from a large predator.
If you need a stopping rifle (and you were actually hunting the animal in question) something has gone drastically wrong.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
No offense to you intended. Threads on guns for defense against animals typically deteriorate rapidly into a pointless argument and then get locked. Stay tuned and you will see for yourself.
Vern Humphrey
Member
The bayonet was originally invented for bear hunting. Bear hunters in the Pyrenees Mountains on the French-Spanish border used a large knife with a cross-guard and a tapered handle -- it took too long to reload if a bear charged you.Is the bayonet for the bear or for yourself?!
The town of Bayonne, France, which was a manufacturing center, made a lot of these knives, which is why they're called bayonets.
Salmoneye
Member
Well...
I've seen it go from front to back, smashing the left rear shoulder, and then exit on a 300# Black Bear, so I'd be inclined to disagree...
Sure seems like one tough bullet IMNSHO...
Are there better bullets for large bear defense for the .45-70?
Probably...
YMMV
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
Nice one Vern. I love it when someone can come up with historical info. It often conflicts with current wisdom, and confuses the heck of of some folks.
Plus, I learned something today. That's a plus any day.
.308 Norma
Member
Actually, I think a whole new bear species came along with the invention of the internet. The scientific name for the new species is www ursus celer indelebilis (www bear almost indestructible). Bears belonging to this new species are very, very hard to kill, especially with the “lawyer proof” handloads listed in reloading manuals nowadays.
earlthegoat2
Member
Im a lefty and don't do bolt guns. That limits me to autos, pumps, and levers for repeaters. Doubles are too expensive to be practical. So all traditional bolt calibers are out. 375, 416, 458, etc.
I personally think an AR10 pattern rifle in .308 with a 20 round mag and 165 or 180 gr A-Frames would be pretty nasty. Im always wondering why a 10mm pistol is chosen over a rifle like this but.... Now, Im unsure whether a 20 round mag is legal in AK for hunting but I don't remember that stipulation being made by the OP. If this suggestion is a little too "PlayStation" then an 1895 rifle in 45/70 with 405gr hardcasts at a suitable velocity will do.
Other than that I would have to go with a 12ga pump and Brenneke 3" slugs. Green lightning or black magic or whatever the good one is.
I personally think an AR10 pattern rifle in .308 with a 20 round mag and 165 or 180 gr A-Frames would be pretty nasty. Im always wondering why a 10mm pistol is chosen over a rifle like this but.... Now, Im unsure whether a 20 round mag is legal in AK for hunting but I don't remember that stipulation being made by the OP. If this suggestion is a little too "PlayStation" then an 1895 rifle in 45/70 with 405gr hardcasts at a suitable velocity will do.
Other than that I would have to go with a 12ga pump and Brenneke 3" slugs. Green lightning or black magic or whatever the good one is.
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