Ultimate Bear Stopper

[Snidely70431]

I'm not a hunter and have no desire to leave the swamps of Louisiana for any place near or above the Arctic Circle, but am a gun nut of the first water. I was in a friend's gun shop the other day and saw a bag of .458 SOCOM's, asked what they were. My friend told me they were rounds for an AR-15 upper that replicate the 45-70. Interesting round.

.458 SOCOM
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.458 SOCOM

55gr 5.56 NATO vs 500gr .458 SOCOM
Type Rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer Teppo Jutsu LLC
Specifications
Parent case .50 Action Express
Bullet diameter 11.63 mm (0.458 in)
Neck diameter 12.32 mm (0.485 in)
Shoulder diameter 13.49 mm (0.531 in)
Base diameter 13.74 mm (0.541 in)
Rim diameter 12.01 mm (0.473 in)
Rim thickness 1.04 mm (0.041 in)
Case length 40.00 mm (1.575 in)
Overall length 57.40 mm (2.260 in)
Rifling twist 1 in 14" (most common) or 18"
Primer type Large Pistol
Maximum pressure 35,000psi
Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
250 gr (16 g) SP 655 m/s (2,150 ft/s) 3,478 J (2,565 ft⋅lbf)
300 gr (19 g) HP 580 m/s (1,900 ft/s) 3,261 J (2,405 ft⋅lbf)
325 gr (21 g) FTX 566 m/s (1,860 ft/s) 3,384 J (2,496 ft⋅lbf)
405 gr (26 g) JFP 489 m/s (1,600 ft/s) 3,148 J (2,322 ft⋅lbf)
600 gr (39 g) RN 304.8 m/s (1,000 ft/s) 1,811 J (1,336 ft⋅lbf)
The .458 SOCOM (11.63×40mm) is a moderately large round designed for a specialized upper receiver that can be mounted on any AR-15 pattern lower receiver. The 300-grain (19 g) round offers a supersonic muzzle velocity of 1,900 ft/s (580 m/s) and 2,405 ft⋅lbf (3,261 J),[1] similar to a light .45-70 but with a much smaller case.

I would think it would do the job on a deer or bear.

 

[RussellC]

Best thing for bears, particularly grizzly, is common sense and not thinking you are safe from them because of your giant weapon and false sense of confidence in it. A grizzly is said to cover 50 yards in 3 seconds, attaining up to 40 mph. Internet is full of over confident individuals killed by them who never even had the chance to draw or shoulder their "bear killer." Bears don't slow down much climing trees,if you happen to make it to the tree.



Good luck,

Russellc

 

[d2wing]

The Alaska DNR did a study a few years back. The only guns better than a 30-06 were elephant guns. The slow fat ones like 45-70 and 12 guage slugs were pretty far down the list. It is hard to beat the 30-06 with proper bullets. But other cartridges work, the big question is the nerve of the shooter.

 

[Garandimal]

Bear Rifle:

​

With 8x168gr. Barnes Copper TSX 30-06.




GR

 

[Jessesky]

I'm not a hunter and have no desire to leave the swamps of Louisiana for any place near or above the Arctic Circle, but am a gun nut of the first water. I was in a friend's gun shop the other day and saw a bag of .458 SOCOM's, asked what they were. My friend told me they were rounds for an AR-15 upper that replicate the 45-70. Interesting round.

.458 SOCOM
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
.458 SOCOM
View attachment 810697
55gr 5.56 NATO vs 500gr .458 SOCOM
Type Rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer Teppo Jutsu LLC
Specifications
Parent case .50 Action Express
Bullet diameter 11.63 mm (0.458 in)
Neck diameter 12.32 mm (0.485 in)
Shoulder diameter 13.49 mm (0.531 in)
Base diameter 13.74 mm (0.541 in)
Rim diameter 12.01 mm (0.473 in)
Rim thickness 1.04 mm (0.041 in)
Case length 40.00 mm (1.575 in)
Overall length 57.40 mm (2.260 in)
Rifling twist 1 in 14" (most common) or 18"
Primer type Large Pistol
Maximum pressure 35,000psi
Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
250 gr (16 g) SP 655 m/s (2,150 ft/s) 3,478 J (2,565 ft⋅lbf)
300 gr (19 g) HP 580 m/s (1,900 ft/s) 3,261 J (2,405 ft⋅lbf)
325 gr (21 g) FTX 566 m/s (1,860 ft/s) 3,384 J (2,496 ft⋅lbf)
405 gr (26 g) JFP 489 m/s (1,600 ft/s) 3,148 J (2,322 ft⋅lbf)
600 gr (39 g) RN 304.8 m/s (1,000 ft/s) 1,811 J (1,336 ft⋅lbf)
The .458 SOCOM (11.63×40mm) is a moderately large round designed for a specialized upper receiver that can be mounted on any AR-15 pattern lower receiver. The 300-grain (19 g) round offers a supersonic muzzle velocity of 1,900 ft/s (580 m/s) and 2,405 ft⋅lbf (3,261 J),[1] similar to a light .45-70 but with a much smaller case.

I would think it would do the job on a deer or bear.

I’m not a fan of the .458 or any other big bore AR really. For the intensive purposes of bear stopping, I don’t know most anyone that’s going to be carrying an AR.

 

[SamT1]

6.5 CM duh hits the heart every shot.



Most likely I’d have a 308 AR10 for the deer hunt so that’s would be the bear Medicean too. If the 19 rounds left won’t get him he can have the win! If it’s tight quarters and a long walk I’d feel real good carrying a 45-70 guide gun or my puma 92 480 ruger with 400gr lswc.

 

[SamT1]

I have never understood why they don’t make a strong pump rifle in a heavy hitting round. It would be really easy to beef up a shotgun frame, and stick on a barrel in 50-90 or some similar round. You don’t worry about the deer, you worry about what eats the deer. Quick handling, fast aquisition, easy to work gun.

Check out “towner 500”. Kinda built like an Ithaca shotgun in 500 S&w mag.

 

[94045]

Like I said their are Coastal Brown Guides that require .375 H&H as the minimum (Their are Guides that say they have never seen a bear go down with one shot of .338 without making the brush). If .30/06 really worked well in their experience I think they would suggest it. After all most Hunters shoot .30/06 better than .375 H&H. Its their butt on the line when they have to go into the brush after a wounded bear.

 

[CraigC]

The Alaska DNR did a study a few years back. The only guns better than a 30-06 were elephant guns. The slow fat ones like 45-70 and 12 guage slugs were pretty far down the list. It is hard to beat the 30-06 with proper bullets. But other cartridges work, the big question is the nerve of the shooter.

We've already covered that, many times. That study was crap when it was done 35yrs ago and now it's outdated crap, less than worthless. They tested the tender 405gr Remington and 300gr Federal factory .45/70 loads and Foster slugs. They also judged the .44Mag based on standard 240gr jacketed loads. There were better choices then but infinitely better choices now. If you compared the penetration of the best non-expanding solids out of big bore revolvers to the best of expanding bullets from the .30-06, the rifle won't even come close.

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/pnw_gtr152.pdf

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

DNR did a study

_____________ Govt agency + study = worthless information.

 

[kBob]

As long as you get to engage the bear beyond 16 meters I vote for something using the 40mm Dual Purpose HEAT round Hi Lo system grenade from the M79 and M203.

-kBob

 

[jeff-10]

Ruger actually already makes a rifle for just such a situation, the 375 Ruger Guide Gun.

 

[94045]

Ruger actually already makes a rifle for just such a situation, the 375 Ruger Guide Gun.

I prefer #47130 .416 Ruger

 

[Gordon]

people seem to forget Reliabilty for at least the second shot is paramount. All those weird ARs and what ever conversion and non proven actions other than a PROVEN bolt under fast reloads or a quality double need not apply. I'd take one of my 870s with hard slugs before any of the other mentioned stuff with no track record on dangerous game. Any good quality double 9.3x62 and up to a .500 would be great, but a slicked up Model 70 CRF or a slicked up 98 style Mauser is great in .375 and also more useful and probable to have in your hand.

 

[94045]

people seem to forget Reliabilty for at least the second shot is paramount. All those weird ARs and what ever conversion and non proven actions other than a PROVEN bolt under fast reloads or a quality double need not apply. I'd take one of my 870s with hard slugs before any of the other mentioned stuff with no track record on dangerous game. Any good quality double 9.3x62 and up to a .500 would be great, but a slicked up Model 70 CRF or a slicked up 98 style Mauser is great in .375 and also more useful and probable to have in your hand.

Don't know that I would call a Ruger 77 unproven and I think it would be reasonable to extrapolate .375 and ..416 Ruger performance from .375 H&H and .416 Rigby.

From what I understand the Ruger Guide Series is probably gaining ground faster than .any other option among Alaskan and Canadian guides.

 

[Gordon]

It is proven. My first Big bear trip was with the original 77 in .338

 

[Driftertank]

Ultimate Brownie stopper? 12ga slug, IMO...

Of rifles, my choice would be "Thumper," my .358 Winchester AR i built specifically to have a fast swinging modern brush gun that could deliver a lot of big chunks of metal on tough targets in short order. Probably loaded with 225 gr TSX's, Partitions, or Swift A-frames (still working on load development ATM)...

 

[WestKentucky]

Just to pile onto the smartalec comments on page 3, why could we not just be guided by Jerry Miculek and let him carry the .454, 500, 480, 460, etc. I would take the 24 rds from a magnum revolver over a couple shotgun slugs any day.

 

[Driftertank]

Just to pile onto the smartalec comments on page 3, why could we not just be guided by Jerry Miculek and let him carry the .454, 500, 480, 460, etc. I would take the 24 rds from a magnum revolver over a couple shotgun slugs any day.

Well, heck, why not just squeeze a Ma Deuce in with your fishing and camping gear. No point doing things halfway...

 

[Robert]

I don't know why I let this live past page 1. Bear threads always end in flames and this one did not dissapoint.