avoiding double charges

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labnoti

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I blew the top strap off a revolver yesterday. It was one of those aluminum/scandium/titanium jobs. I saw the hole on the target from the shot before and there is no barrel obstruction. The ejector rod was shot out and landed about 15' to the right. I never found the cylinder or the top strap. The load was a 158 gr. Berry's plated cast HP over 6 grains of BE-86 at 1.480" OAL in a new Starline .38 Special case. This is on the upper end of .38 Special +P, but the gun is .357 magnum. The revolver in question was problematic. It had broken twice before and each time went back to S&W to be fixed. They replaced the cylinder and crane the first time. The sear spring and the hand the second time, besides adjusting it. The gun had also cracked some nice cocobolo wood grips under recoil. I definitely wasn't getting along with it. Nevertheless, I have to consider the possibility that I fed it a double-charge.

I had loaded 126 cartridges the same day. I weighed the remaining half of them and found they are all within 0.1 grain (complete cartridge weight). I'm using a Lee ABLP with an Auto Drum Powder Measure. It's pretty hard to get a double-charge without trying. Nevertheless, I frequently observe the powder level in the case before placing a bullet, but yesterday I did not look at every one. The press has not been disturbed since I loaded it, and everything is working as expected and the measure is dropping the correct mass of powder.

I'm thinking about ways to avoid this:

* go back to loading powder off the press and checking every load in a loading block

* visually inspect every load on the progressive press before placing a bullet - while this is sensible, it is more prone to failure than observing a batch of cases at a time

* weigh every cartridge after loading

* use a powder that fills the case (can't get a double-charge of H110 in there)

* Use a Dillon Powder Check

I decap, clean, and prime the cases off the press. Because the ABLP is somewhat flimsy, I think I'm determined to change to resizing separately. The press will operate more smoothly during critical operations if I'm not resizing at the same time. I have a carbide resizing die and I can easily resize the same operation I decap prior to cleaning. Besides making the press run smoother, it would free up a station for a powder check, though I've not determined that is the solution.

What do you do to make absolutely certain you never double-load a cartridge?
 
I use a powder check die from Hornady in my press. It contributes to a little powder spillage as the rod goes down into the case and touches the powder which lifts up the indicator but I have seen too many people blow their guns apart with a double charge. Obviously more of an issue in a long case like .38 and harder to detect. The Hornady die is $28 on Amazon.
 
"I frequently observe the powder level in the case before placing a bullet, but yesterday I did not look at every one."

This is always when a problem arises. It's when squibs happen too. I use a LCT and visually check powder in the case twice before placing a bullet. Even though the Auto drum powder measure I use is very consistent I check 1 in 10 for weight. FWIW when I am checking powder throws I also check OAL. I am not in a hurry when reloading and I like consistent boolits.
 
1) Wonderful that you can still count to 10! Pictures, please.
2) Any chance of a timing problem? S&W could have buggered the hand fitting. . . how's the forcing cone look?
3) I address this by looking in cases . . or choosing a high volume powder for progressive loading.
 
What kind of press were you loading these on? Single? Progressive? Dillon? Which model?
 
I'm not familiar with the Lee progressives and how they work. Does your press auto-advance, or do you have to manually advance the shell plate?

And, as to your question, I'm one of those who weighs finished rounds. This does require selecting components that have tight weight tolerances and sorting by headstamp - either before loading or during QC.
 
I use a powder check die when loading on the progressive.

The only other trick I use to avoid a double charge is avoiding powders that don't fill the case. By doing this a double charge becomes easily noticed when the case overflows. Never had a double charge and hope I never do.
 
Your ABLP auto indexes so it is very unlikely to double charge a case.

A squib could be the issue. Most people sense a squib load.

I have no experience but if the timing is off such that the cylinder & barrel are not aligned that can be a bad thing.
 
I use two visual checks for each round - Right after belling when the charge is dropped, and then before seating. Not foolproof, but works well for me and my Dillon 550B. FWIW when I was a kid loading 30/06 and 30/30 with dippers, cast bullets, and Unique and Red Dot, I found a Papermate pen barrel was a perfect fit to use as a check gauge, with a mark on the barrel assuring safe loads when inserted into a charged case.
 
I don't use a Progressive press and, for me and my opinion only, this is one reason. I started reloading in '69 and in 70 had a squib. Since then I have incorporated, no matter how inconvenient, a look in every case that has been through the charging operation, either on the press or off. I have a Mini Maglite on my bench expressly for this purpose. I don't rely on "powder checker dies" or any mechanical device or fluffy powders but what my old eyes tell me. Since then reloading for 12 different cartridges, both rifle and handguns, and not experienced any squibs nor Kabooms.
 
I don't use a Progressive press and, for me and my opinion only, this is one reason. I started reloading in '69 and in 70 had a squib. Since then I have incorporated, no matter how inconvenient, a look in every case that has been through the charging operation, either on the press or off. I have a Mini Maglite on my bench expressly for this purpose. I don't rely on "powder checker dies" or any mechanical device or fluffy powders but what my old eyes tell me. Since then reloading for 12 different cartridges, both rifle and handguns, and not experienced any squibs nor Kabooms.
Same here. Everything mdi stated, except that my flashlight isn't a Maglite. I personally avoided two double-charges this way, while listening to extremely distracting (wonderful) music while reloading.
 
To answer a few questions asked:
The press is a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro progressive press. It auto-indexes.

I am certain it wasn't a squib load, because I observed the hole in the paper from the previous round. The barrel was clear.

It could have been a timing issue. I had just received the gun back from S&W after I sent it to them because it was sometimes failing to advance the cylinder and was striking primers way off center since the previous time I sent it to them and they changed the cylinder. They changed the hand. Now, of all the cases I shot, the primers are struck on center. But I don't have the case that blew it. I searched for almost an hour. It's out there somewhere in the brush or grass. I saw when it fired it ejected stuff both to the left and to the right. I only found the rod to the right which is what I think nicked my trigger finger just above the middle knuckle.

I also notice the trigger is jammed in the rearward position. It didn't reset, but that may be because the cylinder release has moved forward. I see a lot of orange dust in the forcing cone. I suppose it is copper from the plated soft-cast bullet. I also see a concentric line from the 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock position.
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I think I'm going to get a lock-out die. It looks like a simple solution to help me make sure I do my part right.
 
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One other related suggestion. I have a light from inline fabrication that sits in the center hole on the top of my Hornady LNL press. This really helps you see inside every case after the powder is dropped and along with the powder cop prevents a double charge which can happen on a progressive press. Second I would say everyone talks about rounds per hour on a progressive press. Force yourself to slow down and be cautious. I am doing this to have fun not to blow my face off.
 
Yes. I have one of these "Brightech LightView PRO LED Magnifying Clamp Lamp" on my bench/stand. The magnifier is good for looking at things up close, but the light by itself works good to see inside cases on the press. But when you're loading hundreds of cases, it takes unbroken discipline to check each case one at a time. I'm not making excuses, but there is a chance that I won't look that one time out of hundreds or thousands and that's all it takes.
 
I use a LCT press for loading handgun ammo which has an auto-index feature so double charges are unlikely plus I look into the cases before I place the bullet in the case.

Slowing lists the max charge of BE-86 with that bullet @5.7gr for a .38 Special +P. The max charge for a .357 Magnum is 8.1gr. If you did indeed charge 12.0gr that could cause your gun to K-boom alright. I'm guessing no one was hurt, that's a good thing. Sorry I can't help figure out how it happened, you may never know.
 
I know it is very slow , but I weigh every charge on a scale. I'm retired so I have lots of time and I certainly can see where others don't have that kind of time. I haven't blow up any expensive guns and hurt myself or someone else though.
 
Pretty much what others have said, I check the case before I place a bullet. I actually say "powder, bullet" each time as a reminder. I have two lights on my press, I have the Hornady LED light strip mounted inside the frame of my 550, and I have one of those magnetic LED sewing lights (from Amazon).
 
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Hmmm.... that line/indentation is odd. Could that have been where an out-of-time-fired bullet impacted the cone? Or do we think that's just where some part of the explosively-disassembling cylinder impacted it?
 
IMO there is no reason not to get a good look at every handgun charge before placing a bullet. Tall cases and smaller charges make it more difficult, but the proper lights and/or mirrors setup should get you access. Progressives that auto index also help. Sorry about your gun. How's your hand?
 
Glad you were not seriously hurt.

With auto indexing presses it's hard to double charge.

Question for you Lee users. Will the Lee allow you to do a double short stroke without advancing? Or was there a jam that you were required to clear?

On my LNL-AP if I have to stop to clear a problem I clear all stations and deal with those at the end of the session.
 
With the Lee ABLP and Auto Drum Powder measure you can double-short-stroke. I use that feature all the time to set the powder measure for example. I short-stroke it, pull the case and measure many times until it throws correctly. Same thing with bullet seating depth. Short-stroke, pull the cartridge and check it with the calipers. But once it's setup, there is no reason to short-stroke it and I think I'd have to be pretty careless to bumble that way.

I remember that reloading session quite well. I had one jam, but it was when I was using same-weight TMJ bullets that I use in a longer-barreled revolver that would exceed maximum velocity for plated cast bullets. The powder-through die was not flaring the case mouth enough. I tend to set it to a minimum to reduce wear on brass. I crushed a case with a misaligned bullet during seating. I cleared it and turned my powder-through die down two more complete turns. After I started up again, the case mouths were taking bullets nicely. But that happened when I was using TMJ's and there's no doubt I was shooting the cast hollowpoints that were all loaded well after the case mouth flare adjustment was made. I had closed the case of TMJ and opened a different MTM case of the plated-HP and was half way through it when the snub nose revolver failed.

I've looked at the Hornady Powder Cop and the RCBS Lockout die. I like the Lockout die for now, but I'm also thinking about a couple other solutions.

* Swearing off aluminum revolvers, which I had pretty much done after the first two times it broke. But recognize steel guns won't survive if I make a mistake.
* Simplifying my recipes to only bulky powders. The only reason I wasn't using H110 for everything is because minimum loads of it produced too much recoil with that little ultralight revolver. Well, that problem is solved. I've only got heavyweights left. I've also got some IMR4227 which is another nice powder that fills cases and while it doesn't produce as much velocity as H110, it's more than enough out of the longer barrels I've got left.
* You can bet I'll be looking at every powder charge for a while. Not miss a single one for the rest of my life? I don't want to bet my fingers on it. I'll probably use the lockout die where it's appropriate. For rifle (lockout die won't work), besides everything else I can do (powder cop maybe), I think I'll weigh every finished cartridge. I don't use range-pickups but only brass I buy new all the same headstamp. I had something like 50 cartridges leftover from yesterday and they were all within 0.1 grain. A double-charge or squib would be obvious.
 
If you are not going to put an eyeball on the charge the only other way would be a powder check/cop/lockout die.

You don’t have to spend a lot of money on a solution a little mirror and a light makes it easy to see into a case.

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That said when you kaboom a pistol that costs the better part of $1000 even a great press with all sorts of failsafe devices seems cheap. Not to mention being lucky your OK.
 
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