Looking for a SSA Reproduction..... Your Thoughts?

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Uberti uses a retractable firing pin and Ruger uses a transfer bar. So what's the difference other than Ruger caved in to their lawyers about 45 years before Uberti.

You might feel differently about caving in if you owned the company. Ruger was losing expensive lawsuits because inexperienced shooters were shooting themselves with the old Three Screw Rugers. His lawyers could not get him off the hook with that. Which is exactly why Bill Ruger had the designs changed to include the transfer bar. He was protecting his company and covering his butt. I don't blame him one bit. In fact I will never say anything bad about Ruger because they were the only manufacturer that told the Attorney General of Massachusetts to go fly a kite when he would not allow any single action revolvers to be sold in MASS. But that's besides the point.



Uberti was covering their butts long ago when they started putting a hammer block like this into their hammers.

Hammer%20Block_zpsorybq2io.jpg




Later, they started using the two position cylinder pin to in order to get them imported into this country. Domestic manufacturers, such as Colt, do not have to worry about that.
 
However, one should really consider the Uberti replica Smith & Wesson 1875 No. 3 Top Break (Schofield).
I have an Uberti Schofield. Besides costing twice as much as an Uberti SAA, the feel is completely different and would take some getting used to for someone accustomed to the SAA.

Uberti made the marketing decision to chamber the gun in .45LC instead of the shorter .45 Schofield. This meant that the cylinder had to be longer than an original Schofield, and so the gap at the front of the cylinder (where fouling could accumulate) was eliminated. The Uberti Schofields are notorious for jamming up with black powder loads. They're OK if you use smokeless cowboy loads.
 
I didn't say anything about quality of either gun or company . I have a few Rugers and a couple pre retractable hammer Uberti's and one Colt and I haven't had a problem with any of them . It's just if I am going to buy a new gun that only resembles the Colt SAA in looks , I would buy American and get an Vaquero over the Uberti because of Ruger's excellent customer service and they do build a stronger revolver .
I would never buy either, since I want to come as close to a Colt experience as I can, without spending $2,000 for a range toy. That means Pietta or Cimarron branded Pietta (probably the latter).
 
I have an Uberti Schofield. Besides costing twice as much as an Uberti SAA, the feel is completely different and would take some getting used to for someone accustomed to the SAA.

Uberti made the marketing decision to chamber the gun in .45LC instead of the shorter .45 Schofield. This meant that the cylinder had to be longer than an original Schofield, and so the gap at the front of the cylinder (where fouling could accumulate) was eliminated. The Uberti Schofields are notorious for jamming up with black powder loads. They're OK if you use smokeless cowboy loads.

Given that I shoot a pair of Schofields in the Frontier Cartridge Duelist class in SASS, I must disagree with you. They do not jam up with black powder loads. And that is all that I shoot through them. Your experience may differ, but having shot upward of thirty matches with this pair, the experience you refer to is not mine. Halfway through a match, I will often spray a little Ballistol down the barrel and from the rear end of the cylinder but I have no experience of jamming from fouling.

Difficulty in getting used to the feel of the Schofield is another experience with which I have no familiarity. I used to exclusively shoot Duelist with a pair of Ruger Blackhawks in 45LC, and still do on occasion. They are different revolvers and, as such, feel different. But shooting the one and then the other seems no great difference to me, bar that cocking the Blackhawk in duelist style requires less finesse, which could be viewed as a significant difference. In any event, the OP does not appear to have a great deal of SAA experience and therefore would have no such difficulty in transition.
 
You might feel differently about caving in if you owned the company. Ruger was losing expensive lawsuits because inexperienced shooters were shooting themselves with the old Three Screw Rugers. His lawyers could not get him off the hook with that. Which is exactly why Bill Ruger had the designs changed to include the transfer bar. He was protecting his company and covering his butt. I don't blame him one bit.

I know WHY Ruger went to the transfer bar. I think you missed the context of the post. Another poster stated that since Uberti had "caved" and chosen to implement a safety feature in their revolvers, he would buy Ruger instead, which seemed silly because Ruger caved decades before Uberti.

35W
 
I currently own a Uberti with the retractable firing pin, and I’ve gotta say I love it. I’d venture to say that the majority of the people that knock it haven’t used one. I know they say to still not carry 6 in it, but I believe that is them just covering their a$$. I really don’t see how a cartridge could fire without the trigger being pulled after cocking. I understand that some people want the 4 clicks, it’s just not super important to me. I just want a single action revolver that feels good in my hand and shoots to POA, and mine does that. I guess if 4 clicks were that important to me, I’d just save up for a Colt. To each his own.
 
Howdy Again

Allow me to chime in on Schofields and other Number Three Smith and Wesson Top Break revolvers.

Uberti made the marketing decision to chamber the gun in .45LC instead of the shorter .45 Schofield. This meant that the cylinder had to be longer than an original Schofield, and so the gap at the front of the cylinder (where fouling could accumulate) was eliminated. The Uberti Schofields are notorious for jamming up with black powder loads. They're OK if you use smokeless cowboy loads.

This is slightly incorrect. Yes, Uberti lengthened the cylinders to accommodate the longer cartridges such as 45 Colt. The 'gap at the front of the cylinder (where fouling could accumulate) was eliminated' is not quite correct. The barrel/cylinder gap is still there, as it is on all revolvers. What Uberti, and ASM before them did, was to shorten the cylinder bushing at the front of the cylinder. Without lengthening the frame, something had to give in order to fit the longer cylinder into a frame approximately the same size as the original. So the bushing at the front of the cylinder was shortened.

This is the cylinder from an original S&W Schofield. The part protruding from the front of the cylinder is the bushing. This is a separate part that has been pressed into the cylinder. The front face of the bushing stands approximately .170 proud of the front face of the cylinder. Inside the bushing is the ejector rod with its spring.

cylinder_zps67806ff8.jpg




This is the way they fit together. The extractor rod slides inside the cylinder arbor. Notice the helical groove on the base of the arbor.

schofieldcylinderframeassembly01_zpscd6c6b19.jpg




The bushing ID is slightly larger than the arbor OD, so the bushing slips over the arbor.

schofieldcylinderframeassembly02_zps82264c55.jpg



With the cylinder in place, the front face of the bushing presses against the frame of the barrel, for want of a better term. This means the barrel/cylinder gap is offset horizontally about .170 from the front of the bushing. That .170 of horizontal separation means that the cylinder arbor, which the cylinder rotates on, is shielded by the bushing from fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap. Black Powder fouling accumulating on the arbor, is generally what causes revolvers fired with Black Powder to bind. S&W used this design for all their Black Powder era Top Break revolvers, and it functioned very well.

schofieldcylinderframeassembly03_zpse5dc8b74.jpg




I don't shoot the Schofield much, but I have a pair of New Model #3s that have the same features. They perform very well with Black Powder, I can shoot an entire CAS six stage match with Black Powder ammunition, without spritzing anything on the guns. No Ballistol, nothing. They just keep on rolling as they were designed to do.

closeup.jpg




The cylinder in the foreground of this photo is an Uberti cylinder. Notice how much shorter the bushing is. The bushing is shorter because that is the only way the longer cylinder could fit into the frame window of the Uberti Scofield. Yeah, it's a 38 but that does not matter for this discussion.

navyarmscylasmcylwbushingenhanced_zpse5e216f1.jpg




With the Uberti cylinder in place, the horizontal separation between the front of the bushing and the barrel/cylinder gap is much less. This cylinder has not been snugged down quite all the way, but you get the idea. When fouling blasts out of the barrel/cylinder gap of a revolver, it pretty much forms a disc. If the bushing is not long enough to spam the width of the ejected fouling, it cannot protect the arbor as well from fouling being blasted onto it. Black Powder fouling is gritty, and as it works its way down between the arbor (or cylinder pin on a Colt) and the cylinder, it starts to bind the cylinder.The Uberti bushing simply is not long enough to shield the arbor from fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap as well as the longer S&W bushing.

ubertibushingunmodified_zps05cbcfa7.jpg




There is more that enters into it, the type and amount of bullet lube used has a major effect. A good supply of soft Black Powder compatible bullet lube on the bullet goes a long way to keeping a revolver rolling when fired with Black Powder.

LRDGCO, my hat is off to you if you can keep a pair of Uberti Schofields rolling all through a match with just an occasional spritz of Ballistol. With my Big Lube bullets liberally lubricated with soft SPG lube, I can go through an entire match without giving my S&W top breaks any further attention. Many other Uberti shooters have reported otherwise.


Regarding getting used to a S&W style Top Break, I have to agree. The grip shape of the Top Break is a bit different than the plow handle grip of a Colt. The hammer is set further forward on any #3 S&W Top Break than on a Colt or replica. This means there is more of a reach for the thumb to cock the hammer. Speaking shooting one handed of course, is there any other way to shoot these revolvers? I have fairly large hands, and I have to reach a bit further to cock the hammer of a #3 Top Break than a Colt. Then there is the surprise you get if you forget the bolt on a S&W Top Break is trigger actuated, not hammer actuated. My Smith Top Breaks will usually remind me at least once during a match to keep my finger completely off the trigger when cocking the hammer. It you restrict the trigger from popping forward a little bit when cocking the hammer on a #3, you cannot cock the hammer. Always takes me by surprise at least once. The other thing to bear in mind is all the S&W #3 Top Breaks had very short front sights. That means they tend to shoot higher than a Colt with its tall front sight. Sometimes I forget to hold low on the target with my Top Breaks and I shoot right over the target.

Second%20Gen%20Colt%20and%20Schofield_zps75gswsvj.jpg
 
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Driftwood,

Excellent commentary and the pictures make it all quite clear. I too use Big Lube 200 grs with SPG exclusively and that may be a contributing factor. I also always top.powder with a card wad and a dab of extra BP lube, so perhaps that otherwise rather redundant step also helps. But I have not experienced binding in a match or otherwise.

Your explanation of the potential issue cocking the Schofield one handed (as one ought) is more detailed and articulate than my oblique reference above, and I will get caught out more than once, usually towards the end of a match. But, the reach is far, far easier and less labor intensive than with my EA Rogers & Spencer replicas that come out a few times a year for Frontiersman. Now they take some work!

I don't own a Colt or Colt replica of any description though I have enjoyed a Walker in the past. Perhaps they are the cat's meow and all that one could desire. But I'll keep my Schofields (albeit replicas) all the same.
 
LRDGCO

Were you aware I designed that Big Lube 200 grain 45 bullet? The official name was J/P 45-200. The J stands for Johnson.

Just thought I would toot my own horn for a bit.

Ha! I was not aware of that. Well, thanks very much. It's a great design and all that lube keeps the revolvers running well. Happy to toot a horn for you too.
 
I currently own a Uberti with the retractable firing pin, and I’ve gotta say I love it. I’d venture to say that the majority of the people that knock it haven’t used one. I know they say to still not carry 6 in it, but I believe that is them just covering their a$$. I really don’t see how a cartridge could fire without the trigger being pulled after cocking. I understand that some people want the 4 clicks, it’s just not super important to me. I just want a single action revolver that feels good in my hand and shoots to POA, and mine does that. I guess if 4 clicks were that important to me, I’d just save up for a Colt. To each his own.

My new Flat Top has the RFP, and at first I held my nose when I shot it, metaphorically speaking, of course. But it doesn't really bother me anymore. I have the parts I need to convert it, but it has such a nice trigger pull that I've decided to wait until after hunting season, in case I want to use it again.

As far as the reliability of the safety feature, in hunter education class we teach students that a firearm safety is a mechanical device designed to prevent a firearm from discharging.

35W
 
To ask, can the Uberti hammer safety device (I am not clear on what it is called) something that can be retrofitted to an open-top?

I see no mention of it when I look at the open-tops'.

I ask because I am thinking of adding an open-top to my collection, however, I am concerned about single action safety issues. Yes, I know that I can just carry five; but the ability to use a hammer safety device is appealing.
 
I predict that this new so called safety mechanism in the new Uberti hammers is going to be a problem and possibly get someone hurt. I can just see after a time getting dirty or gummy and the firing pin sticking in the outward position and an unknowing person trust it and load it with six rounds. Just looking at the design and how it functions tells anyone with mechanical experience it's an accident waiting to happen.

I would never trust those to load any different than the hammer down on an empty chamber just like the others and personally will NEVER own one because....well it just aint how a SAA is supposed to be. Carry them with the hammer over an empty chamber just how users have been doing for 150+ years. Why is that so hard? And if you don't want to do that do as the previous post said and just settle for a rugged reliable Ruger. I say settle because I own plenty of both and IMO the Rugers just lack in the "feel" of the SAA in both the way it functions and handles.
 
Why would I spend $2,000 to get what I want when I can spend $500 or less?

I guess my point is that if someone is looking for an authentic, historically correct SAA, then one might be best served with the real deal, a Colt. Sure, you can get a replica (I have one that I thoroughly enjoy because I simply really enjoy shooting a single action revolver) that functions identical to a Colt, but it’s still not a Colt. If you have the itch for an authentic SAA, I think maybe you owe it to yourself to get a Colt. Just my thought.
 
I guess my point is that if someone is looking for an authentic, historically correct SAA, then one might be best served with the real deal, a Colt. Sure, you can get a replica (I have one that I thoroughly enjoy because I simply really enjoy shooting a single action revolver) that functions identical to a Colt, but it’s still not a Colt. If you have the itch for an authentic SAA, I think maybe you owe it to yourself to get a Colt. Just my thought.
A lot of people, myself included, don't have $2,000+ for a range toy that's going to see occasional use.

I like nice 9×19mm pistols. That doesn't mean that I need to buy a SIG P210 instead of a CZ75SA.

For me, it's going to be a Pietta/Cimarron or NOTHING.
 
Driftwood, Thank You. I always learn something from you.

Sky Dog,
If you want a Nickel SAA clone but don’t want shiny sights in addition to trying Driftwood’s recommendation you could also try some Birchwood Casey “Sight Black” (temporary paint) on the rear sight area and matte the rear of the front sight with a strip of Scotch tape. It gives you a different sight picture (trying to think of the term) that may work for you. If you like that then you can burnish the back of the front sight with a wood fingernail file and just use the sight black on the rear when it gets time to dress it up.
 
For some reason I never have a problem shooting outdoors, even with plenty of sunshine, with my polished stainless Ruger Vaquero.

RW9m8bw.jpg
 
For some reason I never have a problem shooting outdoors, even with plenty of sunshine, with my polished Vaquero.

It's all relative. Large targets at short range aren't much problem with sights that glare. I've even managed pretty good 50-75 yd. accuracy with the shiny sights on my blued SA's. But for consistent accuracy shiny sights are a no-no. Flat black paint, smoke/carbon, matte finishes et al are band-aids.

It got to be enough of a problem for me that I sought a solution and found it in a 50 lpi checkering file.

Before-
20181125_152316_zpsrvvxfbbl.jpg


After-
20181125_154320_zpsqrffja3h.jpg

I've since done this on four of my SA's and the difference is amazing.

35W
 
I will probably get one from Standard Manufacturing pretty soon. They are nicer than Colts and you don't have to wait years to get one. They also cost more. Don't care.

Have not had a chance to handle one of the Standard Manufacturing revolvers yet. Have only read about them. I don't believe everything I read on the internet. I will hold judgement on whether they are nicer than Colts until I actually handle one

Heck, I have not waited years to get any of my Colts.They were sitting right there on the auction table waiting for me. All I had to do was outbid the other guys.
 
I will probably get one from Standard Manufacturing pretty soon. They are nicer than Colts and you don't have to wait years to get one. They also cost more. Don't care.

At this point I've been able to resist the purchase of a Standard. But if they ever produce a .44 Special, I'm sure I'll fold like a house of cards.

35W
 
35 Whelen

At this point I've been able to resist the purchase of a Standard. But if they ever produce a .44 Special, I'm sure I'll fold like a house of cards.

Make that two of us! Have this unusual desire to have one in .32-20 as well. Don't ask me why, I just do.
 
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