Why isn't there a 22 WSM?

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Dr T

Dr T

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While I don't like the .17's in general, I do like the way the .17 WSM was designed: Take a .27 caliber nail gun blank and neck it down to .17. And, I can see the market justification: People have liked the .17 HMR, so more must be better.

But in this day of cartridge proliferation, why isn't there a .22 WSM made by taking the .27 nail-gun blank and necking it to .22? Given the developments in powder and projectile design over the last decade or so, the performance may be able to get close to the 22 Hornet. In a handgun, I think it would be superior to the 5.7x28.

Is the market just too small? Or is there something else I am missing.
 
the 17 shoots flatter, and will take the sales for target shooting, it has too much power for a simple blowback vest pocket type firearm, and the rim makes it problematic from a double stack compact magazine. In a revolver, its rimifire nature makes it too unreliable, at least people will say it is too unreliable. that leaves only the hunting application, and its hard to imagine a whole new rounds will take off in the same size/weight/price range as a .223, with only slightly less expensive, unreloadable ammunition of iffy long term availability, and less power. Just my thoughts.
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There are two ways products come to market. A demand for something arises and makers create the product to fill the demand; or, the makers gamble on a "build it and they will come" approach. The issue with the latter is the initial start up costs might not get covered if the demand turns out to be insignificant, and that is not a cost most gun companies in today's competitive market can afford to gamble on. Some have gone on to "fame and glory" so to speak, but many others have just faded away into obscurity.
 
Marketing DOES play a major role. I remember fads like The Pet Rock; made the originators millions........
 
If I was to guess, I’d guess no gun/ammunition manufacturers figure there’s a large enough market for a 22 WSM. As for myself, I wouldn’t buy a 22 WSM because I already have a 22 WMR and a 22-250 Remington. If I wanted something in-between (which I actually have been hankering for) I’d get a 22 Hornet or 22 K-Hornet… something I could reload.
 
After that round (.17WSM) came out and I learned about its parent cartridge, wonder why they didn't just make a .27 rimfire round next. Yeah, I know, yet another pointless caliber, but it seems to be the in thing these days.
 
Lots of stops to make in there.
Elmer Keith said he would rather have seen a return of the .25 Stevens HV than the .22 WRM.
Remington experimented with a rimfire in the .26 range.

We had a long thread on a hypothetical 6.8mm pocket pistol. I have wondered if a rimfire might work in guns not likely to be reloaded for; if the ignition were reliable. (My S&W Plastic M&P .22 Compact has had Zero failures with CCI Mini-Mag and I think it is 100% with Aquila HV.)
 
Dr T said:
Is the market just too small? Or is there something else I am missing.
Click to expand...

It takes a significant amount of investment capital, industry partners, and marketing to introduce a new caliber with new rifles and handguns. I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just that I understand how the 17 WSM came to be - the common 27 caliber blank as a "bigger brother" to the successful 17HMR. If 22 mag was flying off the shelves, someone would be pushing this concept. But right now, when it's hard enough to sell 223 Remington, the list of those willing to take the risk on a cartridge like this is short.

If someone has good answers to:
Who is the target market? It can't be a plinker since for good or bad 22LR has that on lockdown. If it is strictly for the hunter, good luck. Hunting is in decline and the volume isn't there. The biggest sales growth lately has been in the "high bc" department, but something like this would probably use a tipped 40gr or 50gr .224", so it won't come close to a 223 Rem in velocity and it would always have the comparison as being "less than both the 223 Rem and 22 Hornet." As cool and nostalgic as the 22 Hornet is, not many people are looking for that caliber as the next one to add to their collection.

Then, what perceived need does this meet? Bigger than 22mag, smaller than 22 Hornet. What can I take with it or use it for that I can't do with the others?

Finally, what would you call it? 22 WSM? Winchester already had a 223 WSSM which was a train wreck. 22 Super Mag? IDK. It has to be both catchy and not confusing from previous products. But, I agree that something like the "5.6 Creedmoor Super Tac R" would probably sell a ton with a partnership with a Savage MSR chambering. Now to get CCI on board. And some Hornady V-max bullets.

... Ok, I'm rationalizing now. This concept is cooler than I thought at the beginning of this post.
 
I have a question now, regarding the word 'Creedmore'. Is it copyrighted to any one entity or fair use rules apply?

Want to know before I start a multipage thread extolling the virtues of a nonexistent cartridge I thought up and want to get a bunch of strangers to do all the heavy lifting for me as regards ballistics, engineering, and marketing. Don't want to take all the credit, though, just want to be a footnote in its glorious history.
 
RedlegRick said:
I have a question now, regarding the word 'Creedmore'. Is it copyrighted to any one entity or fair use rules apply?

Want to know before I start a multipage thread extolling the virtues of a nonexistent cartridge I thought up and want to get a bunch of strangers to do all the heavy lifting for me as regards ballistics, engineering, and marketing. Don't want to take all the credit, though, just want to be a footnote in its glorious history.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creedmoor_Rifle_Range

Creedmoor Rifle Range was sited on Long Island in what is now Queens Village, Queens, New York.

The range was established after the New York Legislature and the newly formed National Rifle Association (NRA) combined in 1872 to acquire 70 acres of farmland from a Mr Creed for long-distance rifle shooting and the holding of shooting competitions.

The range officially opened on June 21, 1873.[1] The Central Railroad of Long Island established a railway station nearby, with trains running from Hunter's Point, with connecting boat service to 34th Street and the East River, allowing access from New York City.[2]

In 1873 the NRA and the Creedmoor range benefitted greatly from the substantial publicity created when the Irish Rifle team, in that year the British champions having won the Elcho Shield, challenged the NRA to a rifle shooting match at Creedmoor the following year. The Amateur Club accepted the challenge and won by a small margin.

In 1874 the Leech Cup was presented to the Amateur Rifle Club by Major Arthur Blennerhassett Leech, Captain of the visiting Irish Rifle Team and is thus the oldest trophy offered today in competitive target shooting in the United States. It was presented to the NRA in 1901 and was then annually awarded for long distance shooting by any rifle.

In 1875, the Wimbledon Cup was presented to the NRA by the British team on the occasion of their shooting at Wimbledon, then the home of British rifle shooting. It was then annually awarded for 1000-yard shooting.

International competitions, organised by the NRA, were held annually at the range until 1891, after which a decline in interest and support caused them to be moved to the range at the National Guard Camp, Sea Girt, New Jersey under the auspices of the New Jersey State Rifle Association. The Creedmoor site reverted to the State of New York in 1907 and in 1912 became the Farm Colony of Brooklyn State Hospital. Today it is the site of the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center.
Click to expand...
 
There is a market for it. Albeit, not a very big one.

On public hunting land in many states you have to use a rim fire to hunt hogs during small game season.

.22 WMR works but “.22 WSM” would work better. It would work better yet if said theoretical .22 WSM was manufactured with Partition or A-Frame bullets of 55 gr or heavier.

They could call it the .22 WAMR. (wammer) Winchester Awesome Magnum Rimfire.
 
Hmmm--What if you went one better and necked down the 9 mm Flobert to .22? The cartridge case would have to be re-designed to handle the pressure--but it would be a very interesting rimfire rifle round. A Fiocchi 9 mm Flobert shotshell pushes 1/4 oz (109 gr) of lead 600 fps...
 
I've thought this one over, and the practical upscale for the nailgun blank from .177 would be to 20 cal. It offers a better chance for a market than 22, since 22 already has quite a few smaller than 223 cases out there.
 
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