Shopping list (WA state ban coming)

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Old Dog said:
Yet, the blue wave -- But the sad fact is, what's happening here can happen in a lot of other states as well.

Can't figure out why gun-owners can spend so much time on the internet, but can't spend a few minutes filling out their mail-in ballots and dropping them off in a mail box.
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The harsh truth is the gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.

D.B. Cooper said:
In the same manner as you find the advice of "move to another state" is getting old, I find the notion that more gun owners need to vote more often is getting old.

Do you, or anyone here for that matter, truly believe that gun owners are in the majority in America?

We're not.

As young people start to take an active political role (i.e. voting) in this nation, it will get worse, and our voting power will be further eclipsed.

We better start finding a way to win in the courtroom, because our days of winning elections are coming to an end.
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You are overlooking a more important and very large group of voters...

Women.

When I was growing up and in my house there was the rule “If mama ain’t happy no one is happy.” The harsh reality in our society is women have the most influence on the values children are taught. This is especially true in single parent households.

More women everyday are recognizing their need of a firearm to defend themselves and their children.

Don’t believe me?

Smith and Wesson just introduced the 380EZ and 9EZ handguns. Both of these guns are designed expressly for people with weaker strength in their hands, wrists and arms and people with disabilities. S&W would not have spent the many thousands of $$$$$$ to design, testing and changing tooling unless they have solid market research identifying the need for these people.

Kansas use to be anti-gun and it was a long hard fight to change our laws.
 
I guess part the equation is if you’ll be able to transfer if the legislation is passed. If not, you need to get what you want.
 
BSA1 said:
The harsh truth is the gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.
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I wonder every time some one makes this statement. How do you think I deserve these laws, you don't have any idea how many letters I have written, how many phone calls I have made or the number meetings I have attended plus the fact I have voted in every election for at least the last 40+ years. It is like when anti gun fo;ks make blanket statements about gun owners, no difference .... I'm done
 
BSA1 said:
The harsh truth is the gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.
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Wow, thanks for that insult. Don't know much about the people in Washington state, do you? And I happen to know a whole lotta gun-owners in Virginia who've been fighting the good fight for many years as well. None of us "deserve" the government we've ended up with, even the idiot snowflakes in Seattle who voted for an avowed socialist …
 
Instead of shopping for more I’d focus on a few to meet my needs and stack ammo deep

I wouldn’t trust any gun grabber to keep his word and would assume that a tax or fee would be the next way to hassle legal gun owners.
 
The problem in Washington, in regards to the last initiative that became law, 1639, was that Bloomberg and some tech executives donated over five million dollars to Shepard it from initiative to state law. The nra and pro-gun forces raised a little over five hundred thousand. You can go to Washington state.gov and dig around, find the voting breakdown by county, it just wasn't the Seattle voters flexing their blue muscles. The anti-gunners got their message out and the pro-gun side was unable to combat it.
 
It also makes things really hard that most people make such decisions based on emotions rather than on facts and logic.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
The FAMAS is on its way out in France as well.
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Sadly, "le Clarion" (the Bugle in French parlance) has been going out of service for a long while. Now, this is after not quite two decades in service, for some fairness.
The problem, which was not solved well in the F11, is that modern military rifles need optics, and the Clarion is not a good optics platform (neither is the AK, but, that's a different situation). The HK gas piston M-16 gives huge parts compatibility, and a ready optics mounting capacity (the scuttlebutt is that the Brit L85A5 will be an HK-416).
 
Let me clarify my position;

Gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.

I don’t need to know about Washington and Virginia. How is it that Gays, Lesbians and Transexuals who are about 4 - 5% of the population been so successful getting laws passed? It is very simple. They have effectively organized, have a single objective, elected politicians that favor what they consider to be their rights and turned out to vote in large numbers.

There are millions of sportsmen / women out there. Yet they can not speak as a single group. Look at the divide among members of THR. The NRA is hated and some openly call for it to collapse. Other members support restrictions on minorities such as myself. No doubt that some individuals make the effort to contact their Congresspeople, make donations of time and money and try to educate others about the importance of gun ownership but until we come together as group with a single mission and turn out in large numbers to vote the anti’s will continue to carve up States.
 
BSA1 said:
Let me clarify my position;

Gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.

I don’t need to know about Washington and Virginia. How is it that Gays, Lesbians and Transexuals who are about 4 - 5% of the population been so successful getting laws passed? It is very simple. They have effectively organized, have a single objective, elected politicians that favor what they consider to be their rights and turned out to vote in large numbers.

There are millions of sportsmen / women out there. Yet they can not speak as a single group. Look at the divide among members of THR. The NRA is hated and some openly call for it to collapse. Other members support restrictions on minorities such as myself. No doubt that some individuals make the effort to contact their Congresspeople, make donations of time and money and try to educate others about the importance of gun ownership but until we come together as group with a single mission and turn out in large numbers to vote the anti’s will continue to carve up States.
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The gay rights movement has had great traction by making a victim of themselves helped along by the press in many ways on the west coast. Yes, unified, but given special treatment due to minority status. We Washington gun owners have spent so much time and money contacting our "representatives" it isn't funny. My Congress critters are ok on guns, but our senators are bought and paid for anti gunners and have been as long as I could vote. We aren't guilty of handing the proverbial platter to the anti's. Heck, the last initiative i1639 was off the ballot due to confusion in language, and an activist judge threw it back on before any counteraction could be run. We are being railroaded by big antigun money. The scary thing around me is the tension it is causing in our population. We as individuals want security, and us pro 2A guys know that guns,ammo, and training is the only way to guarantee that. Those that don't care or don't know vote for anti gun initiatives thinking it helps. It is a war here in Washington, and gun rights are the casualties...
 
BSA1 said:
Let me clarify my position;

Gun owners in Washington and Virginia got the government they deserve.

I don’t need to know about Washington and Virginia. How is it that Gays, Lesbians and Transexuals who are about 4 - 5% of the population been so successful getting laws passed? It is very simple. They have effectively organized, have a single objective, elected politicians that favor what they consider to be their rights and turned out to vote in large numbers.

There are millions of sportsmen / women out there. Yet they can not speak as a single group. Look at the divide among members of THR. The NRA is hated and some openly call for it to collapse. Other members support restrictions on minorities such as myself. No doubt that some individuals make the effort to contact their Congresspeople, make donations of time and money and try to educate others about the importance of gun ownership but until we come together as group with a single mission and turn out in large numbers to vote the anti’s will continue to carve up States.
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The LGBTQ (I have to add the Q; young people call me out if I omit the Q) have done a tremendous job, mostly with the younger generations (Millennials and Gen Z) of becoming "mainstream" and garnering allies from every corner of the nation and from every walk of life. That equates to millions of supportive voters who are not LGBTQ. And therein lies the secret to their success.

In many ways, this proves @AlexanderA to be correct in his earlier stated theory, to which I still disagree, that, in order for us to successfully defend the 2nd Amendment and our rights, we have to convince non gun owners that guns are good. We, in effect, must find a way to make ourselves "mainstream" and to get non gun-owners to vote for pro gun candidates.

I continue to disagree with this concept (although I certainly see its validity and efficacy) because a.) rights are not a popularity contest and b.) I have absolutely zero faith that gun owners could, in any meaningful numbers, "win friends and influence people" in a way that would make us popular with most Americans. Essentially, we are the smokers of the 21st century, and we will be shamed into hiding out back, banned from most public places. (And it's hard for me to use that analogy, as I was (and still am) on the anti tobacco bandwagon.)
 
I'm not going to let this get in my way, I'm just as capable with 10 rounds as I would be with 30 but if I had spare money ruger 25 round mags, AR, AK and Glock mags.
I think revolvers and shotguns are going to get really popular.
I'm looking at Mossberg 930's right now, I'm not worried about government, but then again I don't own anything with high cap magazines but I defend the right to own one.
I think learning from history, specifically Swiss history, would be invaluable. The Germans were terrified of the Swiss, not from their weapons, but their training of being highly skilled snipers.
 
george29 said:
I'm just as capable with 10 rounds as I would be with 30
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I used to say the same thing. Then I started competing in run n gun/USPSA etc. Yeah that was a pretty humiliating wake up call. Since that experience, I'm now looking for 100 round magazines.

george29 said:
but if I had spare money ruger 25 round mags
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If you're as good with 10 rounds as you are with 25, then I wouldn't bother with the BX-25 mags for the 10/22. The one's I have suck compared to the basic 10 round magazines. My BX-25s collect dust. Come ot think of it, my 10/22 collects dust.


george29 said:
I think revolvers[...]are going to get really popular.
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Good! Maybe I'll finally have a chance at winning a match now. =)
 
That's why I'm going with Shotguns as HD bro, I'm too old and crippled to do anything physical so after my 7 dogs wake me up my Shotgun should do the trick. I have a Glock and Beretta to back me up but my go to gun right now is the Shockwave, soon to upgrade to a 930.
Wasn't it a guy in Texas last week that was 3 for 3 against home invaders using a shotgun?

I don't own a 10/22, had one once, maybe I'll get one again.

I'm not against high cap mags, I just haven't ever needed one in 25 years of service even though I carried plenty and in dangerous places. Maybe i was lucky but other than a warzone, never met someone that truly needed a high cap anything but it was comforting. I used to carry a Browning FN MKIII with 4 mags and a S&W 60 bug. 25 years and can only remember 3 shootings, all ended with between 1 and 5 shots (wounded the guy with a shotgun).
It's nice to have a 30 round mag because in most cases one will never have to reload (outside of a warzone, do you know of a protracted gunfight)?
 
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george29 said:
Wasn't it a guy in Texas last week that was 3 for 3 against home invaders using a shotgun?
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I dunno, but it's a dog-gone formidable tool. I just a 1 acre property down a dirt road. A local LEO told me I can count on at least a 3-4 minute response time, even for a priority call. If there is something big going down outside my zone, it will be even longer as dispatch will be pulling units from my area to cover it.

So yeah, I'm in the market for an HD shotgun as well.
 
I've had pumps all my life, due to age and arthritis looking seriously at the 930. Jerry Miculek has an interesting YouTube video on the 930. I'm not looking at the extended tube, just the Thunder Ranch 930, 4+1. I'm also moving to a more remote acre and LE is virtually 0, we target shoot AR's in the Arroyo behind the house and in 2 years not one LEO has shown up. This part of NM people shoot all the time and cops don't even respond so on the plus side I won't be bothered but on the negative side the calvary ain't showing up either. My buddy next door has the AR's but I plan on building a concrete fortress so I have no intention of going outside in the dark to investigate. For serious outside work, I think my M44 7.62x54r will do the trick.
 
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The first thing I would buy outside of AR stuff is going to sound dumb, but pick your preference in cartridge and get a hi-point or TNW aero carbine. Then an AK of some variety. Probably an SKS as well if those are on the list (I got bored and skipped to the bottom). I don’t care for a Ruger Mini but if you like them then that would also be a good option instead of an AK
 
Do they define “antique firearms”? The NFA defines antique firearms as firearms made in or before 1898, but does the Washington legislation use that definition or another, or leave it open to interpretation? If it is not defined or defined as something other than a firearms made in or before 1898, that could make a big difference since the legislation excludes antique firearms.
 
Old Dog said:
When the actual percentage of those eligible registered voters who actually turn in ballots hovers in the 11 - 30 per cent range in our rural counties and 56% turn out in our one large metro (liberal county), I damn sure can say this.
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96.5% of statistics are produced on the spot.
 
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