Knockdown power is a myth because a lot of the bullet energy Is expended after it goes through the subject. Hang up a large chunk of beef or deer or elk. Shoot a pistol round through it. Then shoot with a 556 round. Then shoot it with a 308 or 06. The 30 caliber round will leave a fist sized hole. The other two not so much. Get hit in the arm bone or leg bone with a 308 and most of the time your arm or leg is gone. Again not so much the other rounds.
I’ve cleared houses with an M4, M16 and M21 (accurized M14) and the M4 is the best option for that job, period. It’s not even debatable to be honest. Long, heavy, harder recoiling rifles are less suited to clearing rooms and maneuvering in close quarters.
Maybe the pendulum swung a little too far toward the light side with the 223, but I can promise you we'd have filled more body bags over the last 50 years if we'd stayed with the 308 or 30-06
Very likely not. Not even close. The vast majority of rounds fired do not connect with anybody and heavier recoil from longer heavier rifles would not have improved the hit ratio while greatly reducing shots fired.
I think that is what he was saying. You run out of ammo faster with the big guns, which puts our servicemen in harms way, thereby filling US body bags.
My dad served in France and Germany, and he used the M1 Garand (amongst others...he was weapons Sargent in an armored cavalry unit). He always loaded with AP...said everybody did. Didn’t say anything about three guys in a row, but he did say the 30’06 AP would go through a tree and the guy behind it. He also said it would take apart a brick wall. He was pretty pleased with it in the hedgerow country at Falaise, but he really liked the 37mm canister round from the M8 armored car he crewed.
Right, we are not talking about friendly neighborhoods.
I honestly feel the only valid input comes from the men who actually have been in this situation.
We have heard from some members that did this stuff for real.
I will take their words as gospel.
Id rather have an M4 in that situation also, and if they are more than 40 meters from me, make it a 203. Check your premise, it is faulty. I agree with FL-NC, he's been there-I just trained for it.Right, and I don't think of 30-06 as knock down so much as I think of it as "goes through him, his buddy, and the guy that just showed up with a 30 cal. and steadily increasing sized hole."
Try doing a MOUT in a MOPP suit. you’ll want the lighter weapon...
...to form an opinion of which is the better rifle, you have to have used both the AR15/M-16 and the M-14. Those particular men favored the M-14 for general combat, but some favored a shorter lighter weapon for CQB and indoor clearing. If you run a M-14 for most purposes, but then have to clear a room, you run what you brung. They also told me the Vietnam era M-16 of their experience was a great match rifle, but wasn't ready for battlefield use.
I know some of the earlier plates in GWOT would get penetrated by 7.62 x 54 in tests. The Ranger Body Armor (RBA) we used in the early 90's would fail with 30-06 ball; this test was done just prior to the invasion of Haiti, where Garands were very common. Fortunately, no one was actually hit by one there. The only casualties inflicted on SOF personnel that I know of by small arms were 2 separate incidents with 38 revolvers.out of curiosity, will a 27-2800fps .30 punch thru any common body armor a 556 will not?