45 acp reloading

Status
Not open for further replies.
When a bullet is shaved during seating, something sharp and smaller in diameter than the bullet is causing the shaving; the case. I often tell newer reloaders to use as much flare in the case mouth as needed to get good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later. One can actually flare enough that the case mouth rubs the ID of the seating die. No harm, no foul as the "deflaring" die will straighten out the excess flare (aka; taper crimp die). Its hard to shove a .451" slug into a .448" tube without some "entry way" for the slug...
 
Crazy no worries. Flare case enough so you can put bullet in case and it looks even. I wouldn't worry about those shavings a bit as long as rounds plunk ok. I would load to 1.25 or 26 if they plunk ok and if you run short of 45 brass I'll send ya some.
 
.45acp is a relatively low pressure round. You will probably lose the case before it splits.
Work on eliminating the scraped ring and then back off the flare bit by bit until you are satisfied it will still work.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I guess you focused on my initial comments on color, Accuracy wasn't mentioned as I have not had the opportunity to fire these rounds, but I have fired the Gold Brazos precision bullets that have the same dimensions and weight. Those have been accurate on all my 45's, plus when reloading using those bullets, it didn't result in bullet shavings.

As I replied to Joneb regarding seating: I was originally using SPEER load info that calls for 5.6gr of CFE pistol seated at 1.240. While looking at Hogdon's reloading 2019 magazine I noticed that the same bullet called for 5.4gr of CFE pistol and seating at 1.200. I tried the new recipe a few months back and it worked pretty well, plus it saves .2gr of powder per bullet. That of course was using Brazos precision bullets, but both have the same weight and dimensions. I could go back to 1.240 with 5.6 grains of CFE or utilize Hornady figures which have the recipe at 5.6 grains but a COL of 1.260.

I utilize the Hornady custom grade dies that have the seat and crimp on the same die. Since the bullet seats first then crimps, and it's on the same die, I don't understand how the bullet is being crimped before it is seated.

Do you mean that the bullet is being crimped before it fully seats? thereby creating friction as it is still pushing down on the bullet which in turn shaves the bullet resulting in a ring? If so, I can back out the crimp setting all the way on the Hornady die and add the Lee taper crimp die back in to the mix. I tried the Lee taper crimp die when I first started, but it may be that the hornady seat die is still performing some crimp.

Some folks have reported not crimping semi auto ammo at all with no ill effects. I prefer to crimp lightly, but knowing when a bullet has received a taper crimp is more difficult than when performing a roll crimp.

TIA
Click to expand...

I gotta say first, I’m fairly new to reloading and I’ve learned a lot from a lot of really knowledgeable people on this forum.

With that, I’ve came to the conclusion that CFE isn’t the greatest powder for 45ACP. Burns too slow under a 230gr. FMJ for me.

Hodgdon CFE is great for my 9mm loads, might be fine for 40 too. But for 45, I was tired of cleaning unburnt powder out of my CMMG Banshee. I did everything to try and make a good clean load. Accuracy was awesome, unburnt powder was pissing me off. I was loading to just .2 grains under max, and even lowered my COL from 1.255 down to 1.230 to increase pressure. Didn’t help much. Hodgdon’s 230 FMJ lists a COL of 1.200, but to me that’s way too small of a COL that I want to go to just to achieve a clean burn.
 
I initially started with trying keep the number of different types of powder I use to a minimum. I have cfe pistol, Titegroup, W,231, and Bullseye. I haven't had any issues with unburnt powder. I hear that tg works well, but it doesn't seem to burn any cleaner than CFE or W231. I started with bullseye, and while I like it (nothing like your first), I will say it's by far the dirtiest. However, because it's been around so long there's a bullseye load for every caliber I shoot.

I ordered unique as there a lots of positive reviews and 2400 as recommended by ericuda for magnum loads to try something new and see if I notice a difference.

Right now all things feeling equal when I shoot, I try and focus on powders that meter well.

Looking back I shake my head when I look at all the powders I accumulated.......
 
ericuda said:
Crazy no worries. Flare case enough so you can put bullet in case and it looks even. I wouldn't worry about those shavings a bit as long as rounds plunk ok. I would load to 1.25 or 26 if they plunk ok and if you run short of 45 brass I'll send ya some.
Click to expand...

I use the exact MBC 230 gr RN and that is the COL that I use. 1.250 or 1.260 "ish:)
 
Crazy huh I will not say how many powders I have accumulated. Good thing is unique loads anything and bullseye awesome in 45. Titegroup for me does 9 and 45 well. Cfep is decent in 9. 2400 will be your favorite I am sure in 357/44.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I initially started with trying keep the number of different types of powder I use to a minimum. I have cfe pistol, Titegroup, W,231, and Bullseye. I haven't had any issues with unburnt powder. I hear that tg works well, but it doesn't seem to burn any cleaner than CFE or W231. I started with bullseye, and while I like it (nothing like your first), I will say it's by far the dirtiest. However, because it's been around so long there's a bullseye load for every caliber I shoot.

I ordered unique as there a lots of positive reviews and 2400 as recommended by ericuda for magnum loads to try something new and see if I notice a difference.

Right now all things feeling equal when I shoot, I try and focus on powders that meter well.

Looking back I shake my head when I look at all the powders I accumulated.......
Click to expand...
You mentioned powders that meter well, you may not like Unique as it can give you a tenth grain or 2 up or down. Personally I love it, those variations don't show up on a chronograph, at least not enough to matter. I use it for full power SD loads in the.45 with excellent results.
 
ericuda said:
Crazy no worries. Flare case enough so you can put bullet in case and it looks even. I wouldn't worry about those shavings a bit as long as rounds plunk ok. I would load to 1.25 or 26 if they plunk ok and if you run short of 45 brass I'll send ya some.
Click to expand...
Ericuda,

Thanks for the sound advice. I'll check the rounds to make sure they plunk. I don't really expect issues as the bullets from Brazos precision are similar and didn't have any issues when I fired them from any of my 45's. To be honest, the only round that gave me issues was the 200gr LSWC round. And that was only in my Shield 45. I made adjustments based on recommendations -reducing the powder and seating a tad higher- from a member in this forum and I was able to get the LSWC to eject properly.

Wish I had land to go out and shoot and test these new loads, especially now that everyone is being told to stay home.

Ah well, more time to reload. Eventually it'll come to pass, then I'll have a heck of a range day.

THX for the offer for 45 brass. Before all this craziness started I ordered 1000+ cases from The Brassman. Good thing as it allows me to continue reloading and keeps me from going crazy right now. Now if only my order of 124gr 9mm bullets from RMR would arrive as well as my Alliant 2400, I'd shift gears and complete my 357 reloading and start 9mm back up.
 
RE: Since the bullet seats first then crimps,

I've buggered up a lot of coated lead, and I'm debating exactly what you mean by 'then',,,,

When using 1 die to seat and crimp, the crimp starts to form before the bullet is fully seated and keeps crimping tighter and tighter until you've reached your COL.

If you pull one apart and find a bare lead ring around the bullet, you've cut clean through the coating while the crimp was getting tighter and tighter/bullet was seating deeper and deeper. (This same cutting action makes those little donuts you've been seeing as well)

Doing seating in 1 step and crimping in another is how you ensure the crimping does not start until after you've reached your OAL and the bullet/brass are at rest.

Jacketed bullets are a lot more tolerant to seating/crimping at the same time. Coated/bare lead is at the other end of the spectrum.

FWIW:

* I use the same die as you to seat, but the 'crimp' part is adjusted upwards to just slightly above the top of an empty case. (No crimp) I then taper crimp in a separate step.
* A lot of the data in your manuals is to be considered 'close', but as you are not using the exact same bullet as the manual(s) references, the OAL you need for that bullet can be significantly different.
* Plunkin' is the best way to determine you Max OAL. Always compare your measurements with your data, but in general, a short OAL can get you in trouble faster than a 'long' OAL
* I've loaded several different flavors of 45ACP Round Nose, For whatever reason, an OAL of 1.25 seems to be something my 45's like.
* We'd all like to buy just 1 flavor of powder, but what fun would that be? I've switched to WST for 45 ACP 'target' loads. I tried several others before, but I'm extremely happy that I didn't quit experimenting before I found something that I really like!

As always, YMMV
 
Ah ok. I was under the impression that the bullet would seat first, then as the downstroke continued it would crimp. I didn't know that it would start squeezing the case as the bullet was seated.

I'll separate the steps and pull the taper portion of the Hornady die all the way out so it doesn't crimp. Then I'll setup the Lee taper die to taper the round in a separate step.

The OAL of 1.25 is what I use for LSWC. Anything shorter, and my Shield45 starts to jam. I was using 1.240-1.260 for my RN bullets without issue, until I found the 1.200 OAL. I was being greedy trying to reduce powder, but as Rule3 recommended, powder is the lowest cost when reloading, and I'm not going to get rich by saving .2 each charge. It would theoretically take powder charges to get an extra charge.

Ultimately, if it doesn't work and I still continue to see a ring, I'll take Ericuda's advice and not worry too much about it. Based on everyone's comments, a bigger worry is the 1.200 OAL. But, I have fired 400+ rounds using that OAL, and it didn't feel any different than Magtech bullets. Accuracy was spot on as well.

The only round that I didn't particularly care for in 45 acp was 200gr FMJ bullets I purchased from RMR. The recipes I've seen makes them travel at >1000 fps, but also makes them a tad hot. I still have about 100 of those and will only fire them out of my 5" 1911. Firing them out of any firearm <4 inches tends to make it kind of snappy-affecting accuracy.

THX
 
So I adjusted the hornady die and added the Lee taper crimp die. Please excuse the old looking bullet, It wouldn't take a shine when I tumbled it, so I use them when making adjustments to the press to make sample bullets. The darker bullet is at 1.240 (left bullet) and the lighter one is at 1.200. Definitely a better looking seat. Also, more importantly, I didn't get a lead ring shaving-on the test round.
20200403_202421.jpg

Please excuse the granules on the photo. THe left bullet looks like it was shaved, but it wasn't, when I applied the taper crimp, it seems to have changed the color on the case. That makes it look odd, but there was no shaving on the cartridge which was my original concern.

I also did a plunk test using both bullets. They passed the plunk test on my 3.3 Shield 45 barrel.

20200403_202624.jpg

20200403_202548.jpg

I'll be trying out a sample run later in the evening. I'll have to get used to putting the bullet on the case at a different stage, but I should be able to get used the change.

THX
 
ericuda said:
I use titegroup or bullseye.
Click to expand...

You know, Bullseye was the powder the original 1910 cartridges were loaded with. The load was a 230 FMJ with 5.0 grs Bullseye at 800 fps. That load was used in the tests that lead to the adoption of the 1911, and it was used successfully in two World Wars and a whole bunch of bush wars. When shooters have to use "hard ball" loads in some types of Bullseye matches, that is the same load.

Getting back to the original load and original powder was just a no brainer for me. It functions great in every 45 ACP I own.

But I have to bell the case enough to get the bullet inside. ;)
 
Crazy Horse said:
The shavings are soft and come from the bullet. I was thinking flare as well, but good practice has been mentioned to flare the case up to the point where the bullet starts to go in. But not too much. I adjusted the expander die a bit..
Click to expand...

Lead bullets are larger in diameter than a jacketed bullet. depending on the bullet they can be between .001 -.003 larger in diameter. The coating adds a little more to that. Therefore, they are a little trickier to seat without shaving them.

I didn't catch what expander die you were using. However, you may look into a Dillion, RCBS, Redding or a Lyman M-type expander die.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lyman-m-die.839687/

Rather than have to create a large flare, they have a 2-step expander that expands the case mouth a couple of thousands larger than the rest of the case. If its set correctly, the bullet will actually sit inside the case about a 1/32 - 1/16 on a shelf instead of on top of the flair. It not only prevents the shaving of the bullet ( which actually reduced diameter and accuracy), but it also helps to seat the bullet straight. I use an expander like this on all my pistol seating dies, regardless whether they are lead, coated, or jacketed because they work so well.

BTW- I always recommend seating and crimping in a separate step.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Crazy Horse
  • Locked
45 ACP reloading COAL differences
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
kmw1954
kmw1954
greyling22
  • Locked
I'm struggling with my 9mm. I'm afraid it's a lost cause
Replies
22
Views
2K
greyling22
greyling22
F
  • Locked
.45 ACP > Please look at these cartridge measurements
Replies
19
Views
699
Flt Simulation
F
blackd24
  • Locked
.358 LSWC Brazos bullets - buyer beware
Replies
10
Views
560
H&R Glock
H&R Glock
Sapper771
  • Locked
45 acp OAL question
Replies
5
Views
630
Sapper771
Sapper771
Back
Top