Mob/riot question

Balrog · Sep 6, 2020

Let's say you have decided to eat at a restaurant. Because of COVID, the restaurant is serving outside, so you are eating at a table on the sidewalk. A flash mob of rioters comes out of nowhere and begins chanting BLM, defund police, etc. They are in your face as has been seen in the videos posted on youtube in Rochester.

Obviously leaving is the best idea, if its possible, but many of the patrons in the videos were surrounded with no way out.

You are armed with a handgun. How do you get out?

George P · Sep 6, 2020

Seriously? Is your life threatened?

.38 Special · Sep 6, 2020

That video made me ask myself the same questions.

Safest bet is just to do what they say. Raise your fist, chant their idiotic chant, go home safe.

I understand if a fellow isn't willing to do that. I think I probably wouldn't. Not the wisest choice, but we all have our limits.

So do you try to talk, like the woman in the video did? That might work better for a woman than a man - especially a big ugly white man like me.

The only thing I have come up with is that my gun wouldn't be my first resort. If nothing else, shooting into a crowd - even if some in that crowd should legally and morally get shot - is almost certainly going to get the shooter a whole boatload of trouble.

Balrog · Sep 6, 2020

George P said:
Seriously? Is your life threatened?

Probably not. They are definitely in your face, invading your personal space, cursing, yelling, pointing, knocking chairs and tables over, like in the videos of how they were behaving in Rochester. They are demanding that you join in their chants. They have not made physical contact, but there is psychological intimidation.

I am not asking if you should shoot them or draw your gun, as at that point it would not be justified of course. It would definitely be a very threatening and intimidating environment, with a possibility of it rapidly degenerating into violence as has been seen in other recent peaceful riots. I am asking how you get out.

MEHavey · Sep 6, 2020

you are armed with a handgun. How do you get out?

You don't.
You sit there and take it in w/ two options:
- Do what the crowd wants, and live with yourself in the morning.
- Do nothing, and respect yourself in the morning.
- Leave as peacefully as possible, when possible -- if at all possible -- in either case *

- If you or your wife is physically attacked *, do what you have to at that point to escape immediate injury and be prepared to live with the aftermath

* Two considerations:
"jostling" is not being attacked (judgement call)
"leaving a peacefully as possible" will be a primary consideration in that legal aftermath.

Final Consideration:
"Mobs" don't just magically appear. Like thunderstorms their approach can be seen and heard a long way off.
Get out early. Defending your 'rahts" to stupidly sit there while being engulfed is your surest bet to make the newsreels.

George P · Sep 6, 2020

Balrog said:
Probably not. They are definitely in your face, invading your personal space, cursing, yelling, pointing, knocking chairs and tables over, like in the videos of how they were behaving in Rochester. They are demanding that you join in their chants. They have not made physical contact, but there is psychological intimidation.

I am not asking if you should shoot them or draw your gun, as at that point it would not be justified of course. It would definitely be a very threatening and intimidating environment, with a possibility of it rapidly degenerating into violence as has been seen in other recent peaceful riots. I am asking how you get out.

IF they are threatening, at least here in Florida, that is different, it seems, than in NY. IF I am in fear for my life and that of my family from these thugs, and they continue to escalate, stuff just might happen, with no good outcome for any involved.

Hartkopf · Sep 6, 2020

“Raise your fist”.

I saw a guy in a local store with a shirt that had a picture of an arm raised with a fist. Below the picture was the word: OBEY

I will never obey.

It’s good to have levels of defensive tools. A bullhorn in the ear (causing pain) gets the lowest level defensive tool. Your wife gets dragged out by the mob, a much higher level of defense should be used.

Good Ol' Boy · Sep 7, 2020

I feel sorry for you folks that have to deal with this. Me being rural its a non issue.

I would think that tossing furniture and breaking plates and glasses could be conceived as threatening, and myself would act accordingly. Not to mention in most of these cases theres an astonishing disparity of numbers.

Unfortunately at the moment the law is not on your side so definitely take that into consideration.

JohnKSa · Sep 7, 2020

Rather than using one's creativity to come up with scenarios that have no good solution**, it is better to use it to devise ways to avoid being forced to deal with a scenario that has no good solution.

As far as the scenario goes, the rules of deadly force don't change in a mob situation. It's only legal to use deadly force if you reasonably believe that there is no other way to prevent imminent death or serious bodily injury, possibly subject to the duty to retreat depending on the circumstances and the laws of your state. What else needs to be said?

**I submit that a person who is so clueless as to be sitting on the street and doesn't notice a large, in your face, mob of rioters approaching/forming and surrounding them, they're also clueless enough that if they have a gun they either won't know what to do with one or they won't even remember they have one until later. In fact, I'm going to assert that in this scenario that's exactly the situation. After all, why should the circumstances of a hypothetical scenario be subject only to the original hypothesizer?

Mob/riot question

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