Self limited concealed carry

dodo bird said:

Nothing wrong with pocket carry guns. You just have to practice more.

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I rarely see anyone practicing with any kind of reality much these days, with anything. I cant ever remember seeing someone practicing drawing and firing from a pocket.

Seems for a lot of people, just having the gun is all thats necessary.

buck460XVR said:

The trend lately seems to be to carry the biggest piece of iron you can with at least a box of ammo and not just two....but three knives. While the gun is poorly concealed, the lockblade sticking out of every pocket just screams something. Can't imagine a N-Frame anything hanging in my crotch over my manhood in a purse. Others are free to feel differently. Here's a interesting comment from SMARTCARRY.COM themselves........

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Of course, like anything else, you have to be somewhat realistic in what you choose to carry, what you wear, and how you choose to carry it.

The Smart Carry holsters are about the most versatile holsters I have, and allow you to carry a more realistic gun, and reload, wearing clothes most wouldnt even consider the possibility you might be carrying a gun. And thats doing so "comfortably" for a long and active day.

Ive carried guns as big as a Glock 19 or SIG P239 in mine, wearing looser cut dress pants, and had no troubles at all. Smaller is definitely more comfortable with what I normally wear pants wise, but a Glock 26 with a 17 reload under a pair of Carhartts is very comfortable and not at all noticeable.

I can also easily draw the gun from seated, something that is normally a struggle when trying to draw from a pocket. Hell, I can barely get a couple of bucks out of my pockets when seated (and even standing), let alone a gun.


As far as the size of the gun, Ive always tried to carry what I shoot best with, and gives me the best chance at "anything" that might come up. Not just that one gunfight you always win in your mind, or the" rule of three" statistics people like to constantly throw around.

I carry a full size handgun on a daily basis, and have for over 45 years now, and much of that was/is in NPE's. Never had any problem doing so either. Proper attitude and gear, and its easy.

What many people these days call a daily carry gun, I call second and third line, last-ditch back up guns, and thats how I use them. And anymore, I dont carry anything smaller than one of my 26's for a BUG.

Personally, I have to wonder sometimes if people really bother to put much thought into all this, and just having "some" gun, is all that matters. How many actually practice any kind of realistic shooting with what they carry and from how they carry it, and on a regular basis?

I know a lot of people who carry a gun and have NEVER drawn and fired a loaded gun from how they carry it in practice. Most of them dont practice any kind of dry fire (shooting or presentation wise) at home either, and Id be willing to bet, thats probably more the norm across the board for most gun owners/carriers than not.

Inquiring minds and all, but how much does anyone here practice both live and dry fire from how they carry each week? Can you have that gun out and running from how you carry it without having to think about doing it? Having the gun is only one small part of all this. Being able to actually be reasonably proficient with it, start to finish is the never-ending goal. Or, maybe not.


And my knives when carried, are just as hidden as the guns, so dont worry, they arent seen to be judged. Not that it really matters around here. You'd actually stand out more if you didnt have a knife clipped to your pocket than someone who does. Thats just everyday attire.

Wait! You dont think EVERYONE I see with a knife clipped to their pocket is carrying a gun, do you? You know what, around here, they probably are.

If you're just a regular joe civilian a 5 shot j frame will solve 99% of the role of a self defense handgun, probably for your entire life.

The rest is largely fear, hubris maybe. Carry more if you want, train with the J and you're on your way. (it rhymes, so it's true)

A member on TFL said many years ago (Mike Irwin maybe?) his 380 auto or j frame was just the starting pistol for the fastest 30 yard fat man's dash in history.

A pocket gun keeps you humble and focused on the role of civilian concealed carry- getting you and yours out of harms way.

I can post links of plenty of stories of guys with glock 19s or others trying to intervene in active shooter scenarios and often doesn't end up well.

Can't (and I've looked) found any CIVILIAN cases where the lcp or j frame etc wasn't enough to end the criminal action for the person. Criminal may survive (like that case with the mom in Georgia, home invasion) but hostilities ceased and that is the goal for us unless youre LEO.

Pocket 380/38 or under... You're not likely to try that, and that's PROBABLY good. Get outta dodge, call the pros.

FL-NC said:

I guess it depends on the size of your pocket. I live in Fl., where what most people consider is "summer wear" is year-round wear, most of the time. I cc a shield 9, most of the time.

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I can put a Glock 26 in the pocket on my work pants

Ernie Bass said:

Last Christmas, I received a Christmas present. A Urban carry holster. Man, my first thought was there is no way I will wear it. I felt sorry for the person that bought it for me know they spent so much money on a holster I would not use. However, later in the week I got on the website and was thinking of returning it. I then watched the video and said what the heck, Iets at least try it out. I did so with a heavy pistol. The first thought was wow, I will say it is the most comfortable holster I have worn and for someone that will never carry IWB, this was different.
So, I started practicing drawing with it. I was actually surprised at how well I could draw this. I practiced over and over to the point that I could do this as fast as the shooters in the video. This turned out to be one of those things that you do not knock it until you try it. I will use this this winter. It is the MOST comfortable IWB I have ever used.No more feeling so uncomfortable with something inside my waistband.



Watch the video. It does a good job of explaining why I felt so uncomfortable before. I really like this holster.


<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/365906545"

width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Oh, didn't see the previous post!

I am out there weekly practicing drawing a j frame from pocket and shooting at speed (usually only 5-7 yards) or so.

Not sure what kind of pants others wear but the j frame in and simple uncle Mike's is the smoothest fastest pocket draw I've found.

Yep, even bring a fold up chair out and practice firing from sitting, offhand and strong hand and two hand, prone, resting on the stall etc.

Can draw the 642 from concealment and fire a single shot I'm the bulls out to ten yards with consistency. It took about ten years of practice to do this, and I HATED my airweight for the longest.

Hand to learn a new way to shoot, gripping / choking up and use wadcutters that even kick less than 130 gr fmj. Carry 90 gr critical defense 38s (they're even pink! Lol) ballistic testing looks pretty good on those though. Fast accurate shot placement is everything, along with reliability so for me the J was worth the investment.

Ernie Bass said:

Watch the video. It does a good job of explaining why I felt so uncomfortable before. I really like this holster.

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That's really interesting Ernie Bass. Thanks for linking the video.
I'd heard of Urban Carry holsters before, never paid much attention to them. Thanks to you though, I'm going to look into one for my latest CCW - a Glock 19. An Urban Carry holster might work even better for me than before because I've been shedding quite a few pounds the last few months by simply watching my carbs.
Anyway, thanks!

defjon said:

If you're just a regular joe civilian a 5 shot j frame will solve 99% of the role of a self defense handgun, probably for your entire life.

The rest is largely fear, hubris maybe. Carry more if you want, train with the J and you're on your way. (it rhymes, so it's true)

A member on TFL said many years ago (Mike Irwin maybe?) his 380 auto or j frame was just the starting pistol for the fastest 30 yard fat man's dash in history.

A pocket gun keeps you humble and focused on the role of civilian concealed carry- getting you and yours out of harms way.

I can post links of plenty of stories of guys with glock 19s or others trying to intervene in active shooter scenarios and often doesn't end up well.

Can't (and I've looked) found any CIVILIAN cases where the lcp or j frame etc wasn't enough to end the criminal action for the person. Criminal may survive (like that case with the mom in Georgia, home invasion) but hostilities ceased and that is the goal for us unless youre LEO.

Pocket 380/38 or under... You're not likely to try that, and that's PROBABLY good. Get outta dodge, call the pros.

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The boy in the video above has a ton of videos showing actual gunfights by civilians that show the LCP or J frame are not the best choice. Well worth watching.

.308 Norma said:

That's really interesting Ernie Bass. Thanks for linking the video.
I'd heard of Urban Carry holsters before, never paid much attention to them. Thanks to you though, I'm going to look into one for my latest CCW - a Glock 19. An Urban Carry holster might work even better for me than before because I've been shedding quite a few pounds the last few months by simply watching my carbs.
Anyway, thanks!

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Urban Carry holsters suck really, really bad

Trunk Monkey said:

Urban Carry holsters suck really, really bad

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Maybe. I'll find out for myself though. Thanks.

Based on my experience I'm not comfortable with less than 10 rounds. Truthfully, because the smallest gun I carry is a Glock 26 with a 12 round magazine I guess I'm not comfortable with less than 12.

I came to that conclusion one morning when I was walking my dog Old Pig Ear and five crackheads walked out of the apartment building and surrounded me. They weren't up to trouble, but they were nice and baked and they thought my dog looked cool and I realized how wrong it could have gone.

I sold my 9 shot M&P Shield and bought a 13 shot M&P9C (first generation) by the end of the week.

defjon said:

Can't (and I've looked) found any CIVILIAN cases where the lcp or j frame etc wasn't enough to end the criminal action for the person. Criminal may survive (like that case with the mom in Georgia, home invasion) but hostilities ceased and that is the goal for us unless youre LEO.

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The mom in Georgia was out of ammunition. The only reason "hostilities ceased" is because the bad guy decided not to press the attack. He could have just as easily decided otherwise and mom would have been SOL.

.308 Norma said:

Maybe. I'll find out for myself though. Thanks.

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It's your money, waste it as you see fit.

AK103K said:

The boy in the video above has a ton of videos showing actual gunfights by civilians that show the LCP or J frame are not the best choice. Well worth watching.

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.....and there are tons of videos out there showing why J-Frames are the best choice. There's a reason they are still the most popular cwc choice out there. What's best is very subjective. Best CWC weapon...best CWC holster....best CWC caliber, etc., etc. Far too many folks on these types of forums tend to think what they have/use is best, not just for them, but for everybody....and here's a video to prove it, as if being on YouTube makes it Gospel.

Trunk Monkey said:

It's your money, waste it as you see fit.

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As I said, thanks.

buck460XVR said:

.....and there are tons of videos out there showing why J-Frames are the best choice. There's a reason they are still the most popular cwc choice out there. What's best is very subjective. Best CWC weapon...best CWC holster....best CWC caliber, etc., etc. Far too many folks on these types of forums tend to think what they have/use is best, not just for them, but for everybody....and here's a video to prove it, as if being on YouTube makes it Gospel.

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The videos Im referring to basically back up what Ive come to see in practice with various guns Ive used over time. They arent videos of someone talking about why this gun is better than that, or staged, set up scenarios, etc, they are simply actual, real life videos of people dealing with things in the moment, good and bad.

Hey, life is life, and sometimes things get solved without a shot fired, and other times, youre trying to get your high cap gun reloaded, and wish you had more mags along to boot.

Whats also life and reality is, you simply get what you get, and you generally dont have a choice when your turn comes. You have what you have, and you do your best to make things work with what you got. You either bring enough gun and experience along, or you dont. No one is telling you what to do, as thats entirely up to you. But, hopefully, youre as honest as possible with yourself about your actual skills and your choices.

I think its a good idea to look through as many of those videos as you can stand, and critically watch them, and put yourself in that persons place, and think how you would have dealt with it with what "you" have.

I shoot an Airweight J frame a couple of times a month in practice, just to stay on top of them. If you put the time in with them to get good with them, they really arent all that hard to shoot well with, but they do take more deliberate focus than other things, and its usually not a pleasant or extended session when you do shoot them.

They may be popular (usually right up to the point the new owner actually shoots them) but they also are not a beginner's gun and in reality, more of an experienced shooters gun, especially if you hope to make them work with what you have.

If you shoot them the least bit realistically, especially when you add, movement, a couple of extra subjects to the equation, etc, you figure out pretty quick, they dont carry enough ammo, and youre not likely going to be getting them reloaded in the moment either, and especially if you arent well versed at doing so, to the point of doing it without thought.

And the J frames are at the bigger end of the smaller guns. Things generally just get worse as you go down in size. And the smaller you go, the more you need to practice, and as realistically as possible with them, if you hope to at least have a chance with them.

.308 Norma said:

Maybe. I'll find out for myself though. Thanks.

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I felt the same way as I mentioned in the earlier post. I am really OCD about IWB. Now it is the only IWB I will carry. Many times they say a IWB is so comfortable that you cannot tell you are carrying. I have tried many over the 10 plus years I have been EDC. But, This is the only that is truly comfortable.And it draws just like the guy in the video. I was surprised how well it did.
I would suggest getting one. You can always return it. And least you actually tired one out and then you can post about how you like or dislike. I have a feeling you will love it. .

I've never owned one ( I WOULDN'T own one) but I have tried them and I have seen people flip the gun right out them on the draw.

I also refuse to use any holster that requires me to use two hands to draw

buck460XVR said:

There's a reason they are still the most popular cwc choice out there.

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What do you base that statement on?

Trunk Monkey said:

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Thank you so kindly for the video. However, I think the perhaps that not all holsters are meant for everyone. Body size and shape may be a determination. The Young man in the video is a example of the Urban Carry not being a good choice. Now your comment "Urban Carry holsters suck really, really bad", I will take with a grain of salt. And I will try and give a polite rebuttal by saying maybe it sucks for you, but works just fine for me and others. Have a blessed day and be safe.

Ernie Bass said:

Thank you so kindly for the video. However, I think the perhaps that not all holsters are meant for everyone. Body size and shape may be a determination. The Young man in the video is a example of the Urban Carry not being a good choice. Now your comment "Urban Carry holsters suck really, really bad", I will take with a grain of salt. And I will try and give a polite rebuttal by saying maybe it sucks for you, but works just fine for me and others. Have a blessed day and be safe.

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Apparently one of my posts was deleted so I'm going to try to say this a different way.

I personally do not know of any reputable trainer who uses or recommends Urban Carry holsters. That alone would be a huge factor in my decision to ever use one.

Whether you believe me or not I did get a chance to try one once and I wasn't impressed. It was just a bag to put your gun in and if I remember correctly the major suggest that you wear pants that are two or three sizes too big to make it work. Again, not my thing.

If you like it by all means use it. I would strongly suggest did you actually try it Anna tactical handgun class or a force on force class before betting your life on it.

Having said that, you do you.

No hard feelings

Trunk Monkey said:

Apparently one of my posts was deleted so I'm going to try to say this a different way.

I personally do not know of any reputable trainer who uses or recommends Urban Carry holsters. That alone would be a huge factor in my decision to ever use one.

Whether you believe me or not I did get a chance to try one once and I wasn't impressed. It was just a bag to put your gun in and if I remember correctly the major suggest that you wear pants that are two or three sizes too big to make it work. Again, not my thing.

If you like it by all means use it. I would strongly suggest did you actually try it Anna tactical handgun class or a force on force class before betting your life on it.

Having said that, you do you.

No hard feelings

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I am OCD about my pants and my holsters. I do not buy pants two to three sizes too big. I am certainly not new to handguns or shooting. I find no reason to take a Anna Tactical Class for every holster I buy. Like I Said, I draw just fine with this holster, have no problems at all. And the holsters is super comfortable. There is no more need to discuss this. Buy the holster that fits you and each to his own.