So thinking about an AR pistol....

kBob said:

Looking at PSA lower pistol kits and they seem to have a "KAK Industries Shockwave Blade" as an arm brace.

Anyone tell me about those, as in what's good about them and what is not so good about them?

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I bought one of those PSA kits and the KAK is meh. It just reminds me how much better the stocks are on my SBR's and rifles. Eventually I'll probably scrape the pennies out of my car's armrest and get a Tailhook.
First, "arm braces" are great for looks, terrible for "shouldering". The KAK being 100% hard plastic isn't mushy like other "arm braces". That plastic "blade" begins to aggravate me after a few mags, its not terribly uncomfortable, just annoys me.

also dithering on barrel length, 10.5 I know works in LEO carbines OK fine but the 7.5 is three inches shorter and so maybe more easily used in tight places, though I am concerned about even more velocity loss.

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Reliability and lethality for 5.56? If so, go 10.5
If you are talking .300 Blackout 7.5 is fine.

I put a 10.5" 7.62x39 upper on my Sig p400 and it is only a few inches shorter than my DD 5.56 carbine and weighs about the same. Not really much difference but I wanted more power than 5.56.

If you want small I would go with the 7.5". It depends on your intended use but for HD any loss of velocity will not matter at short range.

The first pistol kit I bought was an 8.5" PSA kit with a KAK Shockwave.

I was surprised it wasn't as uncomfortable as it looks. It doesn't feel like a stock but unless I'm running hundreds of rounds through the gun, it doesn't bother me.

I did upgrade to a SBA3 when PSA had them on sale. It feels more like a regular stock than the Shockwave. The Shockwave is slightly lighter but not enough to really matter.

A buddy of mine had a 7.5” AR pistol.

He was forbidden from firing it in my vicinity.

It was like being in a room with 30 Thunderflashes going off. One after another.

The only way I’d use one is with a suppressor. Of course, then it’s the length of a carbine. Yet with the same loss of velocity.

sgt127 said:

A buddy of mine had a 7.5” AR pistol.
He was forbidden from firing it in my vicinity.

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Yeah. A .223/5.56 in a 10.5" barrel is brutal. I'd point you toward a .300BO because it sounds like a gun instead of a disaster.

And for the $35 I paid, I like the KAK blades. Not fancy, just work.

I would not want such a short-barrel 5.56 firearm.

After doing some research in 2019 I concluded (for myself) that a .300BO would be a much more reasonable choice ... but I had no plan or urge to build an AR Pistol.

... until I saw that 10.5" .330BO barrel on-sale in Nov/Dec 2019. What the heck ... build one now while I still can, right?

Two months into the new year I realized that I had completed the slow accumulation of additional parts required and assembled the firearm.

During the Add'l Parts Accumulation Phase, I originally ordered a "blade" brace (Trinity Force, I think) and was not impressed. <shrug> It was inexpensive. I later found an SBA3 on-sale (market down heavily ... IMO, they ask way too much for those things) and like that much more than the 'blade".

I mounted a cheap RDS and a co-witnessed flip-up rear aperture sight (looking at the red dot thru the aperture helps tame the "sparklies" )
I may someday add the matching flip-up front sight that I also purchased but parked, for now.

I have found the "pistol" the be both very handy and acceptably accurate ... and fun.

My 10.5" 5.56 pistol is a favorite.
Drop in the .22lr conversion kit and plink away.
Its not just for fun either, it is in my under bed safe for HD duty also. Single point sling, RDS, 30rd mag, and a weapon light make it a formidable weapon.

Armored farmer said:

My 10.5" 5.56 pistol is a favorite.
Drop in the .22lr conversion kit and plink away. ...

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And she's a real Beauty!

The only advantage to the KAK blade IMHO is that it's inexpensive. It allows PSA to meet a price point.

I prefer the SB4A as a brace.

I am slowly throwing together an AR pistol. I bought the KAK brace on a whim because it was the cheapest at $50 and I hit buy when the rumor floated around that braces were getting reclassified again by the ATF. Thankfully the latter hasn't happened as of yet. In a determined build I would get another brace, something more comfortable. In a "right now" build it will work.

I've owned a 7.5" AR pistol for 6 years now...it's, ok. Not good, not bad...just, ok. It currently has the KAK shockwave on it and it too is...ok (at best). It is highly uncomfortable for using as...other than a brace. Like most say, it is EXTREMELY loud and depending on the muzzle device, will chuck a massive fireball when firing. Personally, I use a Smith Vortex and the muzzle flash is zero. There's no way I'd want to fire the thing indoors without substantial hearing protection. I often wonder if it as loud as my 460 S&W.

The pros?

Its very small and easy to use.

I've been kicking around all kinds of ideas on what to do with the thing. Convert it to 9mm? to 300 blk? To 350 legend? 9mm would almost require me to get an all new gun, I've priced it out and it's not worth it. 300 has still not come down in price concerning factory ammo and I really do not feel like reloading for it. 350 Legend is highly interesting and I'm going to keep my eye on it. It seems to perform very well out of short barrels and like 300, it offers some much heavier projectiles. Using powders like H110, IMR 4227, and Lil Gun, I'd expect very solid performance from a 7-10" barrel. The only major issue with it at the time is projectiles...of where there are only a few...if you can even get those.

Armored farmer said:

My 10.5" 5.56 pistol is a favorite.
Drop in the .22lr conversion kit and plink away.
Its not just for fun either, it is in my under bed safe for HD duty also. Single point sling, RDS, 30rd mag, and a weapon light make it a formidable weapon.View attachment 946011

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What is the writing on the mag well of that lower. It looks like micro film, have you ever got out a magnifier glass to see what it says? Lol

It took me a while to get onto the AR pistol bandwagon. I love them though, the AR is my favorite rifle even though it's a "soulless hunk of aluminum and plastic" as one member so eloquently put it recently (which I pretty much agree) and having a pistol is a huge plus imo. Nice and compact and very, very capable. I know the downside to using it in self defense aside from the obvious horrible fact that you just killed somebody, dirtbag or not, is that you will be deaf.

I keep one of the original .300 Blackouts beside my bed.

If I need it shorter, I’ve got a Choate folding stock.

This was my first pistol build. It was my aim to keep it light and very simple. I've considered a 1" GG&G FSB flashlight mount since I keep it close by and it is likely the AR I'd grab if need arise. I havent weighed it but it is light and capable. I put the shockwave brace on it because its light and simple, not very ergonomic but I can run a mag after mag through with no soreness, it's just not a great comfort to the shoulder when firing is all. It's nice and light but also hard if you needed to do a good bonk! on the nose. It's a 10.5, I'm really impressed with it, I think I have just under or just over $400 into it. It's a KISS pistol. I keep it loaded with 77gr SMK OTM's in it and feel good about it.

I have not tested the accuracy range of it though. All my shooting with it has been within 50 yards. I'd really like to stretch it as far as I can because I'm curious about the iron sights and how far out I can ring a plate with it, for fun mostly but also reference...

Have a couple of them.
These 2:



Plus this one:

DustyGmt said:

What is the writing on the mag well of that lower. It looks like micro film, have you ever got out a magnifier glass to see what it says? Lol

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Since that is an 80% lower, it was my understanding at the time that I had to inscribe a reference on it to satisfy the batf.
That lower bears both my name, and Psalm 23.

My Saint Victor will be here tomorrow.

sgt127 said:

I keep one of the original .300 Blackouts beside my bed.

If I need it shorter, I’ve got a Choate folding stock.



View attachment 946044

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Actually that is what is next to my bed!

dickydalton said:

Actually that is what is next to my bed!

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You have exquisite taste!!

I have lots of other high tech stuff but, a grab and go, 45 rounds on board package is not a bad deal!

I was so impressed with my AR-15 pistol that I'm currently waiting for a rifle barrel to rebuild it into a rifle.

I had thought that an AR15-based “pistol” would be a good idea, for traveling in/through jurisdictions that allowed me to have a loaded handgun on or about my person, in scenarios that did not legally allow loaded long guns. Plus, mounting a nice red-dot sight, for my aging eyes, on an AR15 receiver is a simple task. So, I bought a 10.3” Daniel Defense DDM4 V7P, .300 AAC.BLK, factory-equipped with a LAW folder, to be my “bag gun.”

Well, to make a long story short, I still use a long-barrel .357 Mag revolver, when I bring a loaded “bag gun” along with me. An AR15 pistol is not really that much shorter than my16” AR15 carbines, and the LAW folder adds considerable width. When a LAW folder is extended, the LOP is quite long. This AR15 pistol is much more of a niche weapon, than I had thought it would be.

I realize that my DDM4 V7P could be made shorter, by a few inches, with a shorter barrel, but I am not sure it would be worth the bother.

I have the KAK on my FX-9 and got my psa 5.56 and 300 bo with the MFT. I actually like the MFT better since has sling stud socket and a bit softer plastic. Both inexpensive and work fine for me. I wouldn’t go smaller than 10.5” for the 5.56. Velocity and reliability concerns.