What is this?

1. 9mm Browing Court?

2. No clue

3. Yes

yup Browning short, aka 380acp

The brass could be this.
TSA Basic 9mm Luger Ammo 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/target-sports-9mm-luger-ammo-124-grain-fmj-tsts9fmj-p-110587.aspx

BLACKFIN said:

And lastly,
Is this case reloadable with that crimp ring?
View attachment 951510

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The cannelure in the case is to prevent bullet set back. The cases are reloadable and over time, the cannelure will get ironed out from the shooting/resizing process. You do not need to anything special to the cases.

One sees these cannelures frequently in 38 Special ammunition, particularly wadcutter target rounds.

Just to make sure, measure the case length...

9mmepiphany said:

It is actually Corto...from the Spanish for "short"...much like the German designation Kurz

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Or "court", which is French, the language spoken in Liege and at the FN factory...

I thought Corto was Italian for short, maybe a shared romance language word - for example the Beretta 1934, 9X17mm Corto.

German for short is indeed Kurz, sometimes seen as 9mmK.

Yes whatever the reason it is a foreign designation for our 380 ACP. As far as reloading 9MM brass goes, as long as it does not have the internal step in it I will reload them. The case volume with the internal step would be diffetent (smaller) and this would require a different charge so I don't mess with them. They still are good scrap though.

FROGO207 said:

The case volume with the internal step would be diffetent (smaller) and this would require a different charge so I don't mess with them.

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Enough difference in volume, my powder check dies will catch them.

Yep in my mind that makes them dangerous. Also there is no reliable loading data for them either.

1) and 2) - Line up the brass on bench top and shorter 380Auto/9x18 brass will be obvious from longer 9mm/9x19 brass.

3) - Reload away.

As far as reloading 9MM brass goes, as long as it does not have the internal step in it I will reload them. The case volume with the internal step would be diffetent (smaller) and this would require a different charge so I don't mess with them. They still are good scrap though.

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I had one of those separate right at the ledge leaving the front half stuck in my chamber. (mid range load) Bad news, they all go in the recycle can now.

I had a .380 come out of my case feeder one time while loading 9mm s and it made it through the entire loading process with my LNL-AP and I didn't find it until I was checking my cases in my case gauge. I can usually feel them when resizing but this one tried to sneak through.
Pesky little things.

Yes, TSA headstamp is Target Sports Ammunition.

LiveLife said:

1) and 2) - Line up the brass on bench top and shorter 380Auto/9x18 brass will be obvious from longer 9mm/9x19 brass.

3) - Reload away.

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One minor thing... .380 is 9x17mm...
Makarov is 9x18mm


Stay safe.

Riomouse911 said:

One minor thing... .380 is 9x17mm...
Makarov is 9x18mm

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My point was the shorter cases whether .380Auto/9x17, 9mm Makarov or 9x18 cut down from 9x19 would be readily detectable from 9mm Luger/9x19/9mm Parabellum cases.

I have found lining up the cases on the bench where I could see the comparison height of case mouth against other cases is the fastest way for me to separate 9mm cases from shorter "other" cases (Especially shorter cases cut down from 9mm cases as they would have the same "9mm" headstamp )

Ya, 9mm and .380 are tough. There are too many “9mm”-named rounds out there, it’s very confusing for a beginner.

I actually wrote and present a class on firearm recognition for Deputy DAs. The ammunition portion has a component on headstamps that have multiple different names for the same cartridge. Ex: the “Three Eighty” is also known on ammo boxes and by headstamps as .380 Auto, .380 ACP, .380 Auto Colt Pistol, 9x17mm, 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Corto, etc.

Defense attorneys have tried to use these various headstamps found at scenes that were fired from the same firearm. It’s not tough to confuse juries by claiming there were “two different calibers” used so there was more than one shooter.

It’s easy to claim “I will admit my client had a .380, but the police only found 9mm casings there at the scene, so it wasn’t my client who shot the victim.” etc. By educating these attorneys to this possibility I am (hopefully) giving them some tools to challenge the defense when they make these claims.

Stay safe.

Riomouse911 said:

Ya, 9mm and .380 are tough. There are too many “9mm”-named rounds out there, it’s very confusing for a beginner.

I actually wrote and present a class on firearm recognition for Deputy DAs. The ammunition portion has a component on headstamps that have multiple different names for the same cartridge. Ex: the “Three Eighty” is also known on ammo boxes and by headstamps as .380 Auto, .380 ACP, .380 Auto Colt Pistol, 9x17mm, 9mm Browning Short, 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Corto, etc.

Defense attorneys have tried to use these various headstamps found at scenes that were fired from the same firearm. It’s not tough to confuse juries by claiming there were “two different calibers” used so there was more than one shooter.

It’s easy to claim “I will admit my client had a .380, but the police only found 9mm casings there at the scene, so it wasn’t my client who shot the victim.” etc. By educating these attorneys to this possibility I am (hopefully) giving them some tools to challenge the defense when they make these claims.

Stay safe.

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I think you meant that the other way around.... Can’t fire 9mm Para through a 380, but can fire 380acp in a 9mm chamber.

David Hoback said:

TSA headstamp is Target Sports Ammunition.

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Phew, I thought the Transportation Safety Administration now had an armed division.

Riomouse911 said:

Makarov is 9x18mm

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Makarov is about 9.2x18mm, bullets not the same.
Anecdote Alert: I once got some Boxer primed Makarov cases in my 9mm supply. They ran through the Dillon just fine, detected when loaded by the long bullet showing or by dropping way deep in a cartridge gauge. I got curious enough to run some through the gun. They fed, fired, and functioned just as thought they were 9mm P. Probably "head spacing" on the extractor. Not recommended, but not hazardous if one sneaks through.

David Hoback said:

Can’t fire 9mm Para through a 380, but can fire 380acp in a 9mm chamber.

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Not recommended, but there was one agency that would set up malfunctions for trainees by slipping the occasional .380 into a 9mm Beretta magazine. It would feed and fire, but not function, leaving the cadet to figure out what to do to keep shooting.

Jim Watson said:

Phew, I thought the Transportation Safety Administration now had an armed division.



Makarov is about 9.2x18mm, bullets not the same.
Anecdote Alert: I once got some Boxer primed Makarov cases in my 9mm supply. They ran through the Dillon just fine, detected when loaded by the long bullet showing or by dropping way deep in a cartridge gauge. I got curious enough to run some through the gun. They fed, fired, and functioned just as thought they were 9mm P. Probably "head spacing" on the extractor. Not recommended, but not hazardous if one sneaks through.



Not recommended, but there was one agency that would set up malfunctions for trainees by slipping the occasional .380 into a 9mm Beretta magazine. It would feed and fire, but not function, leaving the cadet to figure out what to do to keep shooting.

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If we reeeeeeally want to split hairs. SAAMI specs show it’s actually 9.27 x18.10 mm.
9x18 is good enough for me .

https://saami.wpengine.com/wp-conte...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Stay safe.

9mmepiphany said:

It is actually Corto...from the Spanish for "short"...much like the German designation Kurz

Click to expand...

Actually, Corto is Italian for short

David Hoback said:

I think you meant that the other way around.... Can’t fire 9mm Para through a 380, but can fire 380acp in a 9mm chamber.

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I don’t think I said one could fire a 9mm in a .380... I made a statement that a defense attorney may use the various headstamps to claim multiple calibers (“9mm,”, 380) were present. This is to confuse a jury who may not be gun-savvy, and who won’t catch that these are not “9mm”(Luger) rounds, but are all just different names for the same thing.


I had one case several years ago where the three defense attorneys representing three gangster defendants (tried together) have done this exact thing. One kept referring to the 9mm Corto (Sellier & Bellot if I recall correctly) headstamps found along with .380 Auto (aluminum Blazer) headstamps at a shooting as different calibers.

There was only one .380 present that their gangster client was shooting, the other gun fired at the V by the second defendant was a .32.

The defense attorney did this on purpose, trying to claim there had to be three guns there, “a 9mm. ,a .380 and a .32”..so it was a self defense situation because the V had a 9mm handgun that the cops “purposely didn’t find” because they had it in for their clients. It was a good defense ploy, I give them credit.

I spent a good 45 minutes on recross explaining to the jury the multiple names this caliber goes by (thank goodness for a whiteboard!) and the forensic examiner spent a couple hours showing the microscopic marks were all made from firing the same .380 ACP gun.

My instruction is for these DDAs to be prepared for these tricks and to be sure they elicit the proper testimony to clarify this from their LEO witnesses (who also aren’t always gun-savvy!) or from me if I’m called as an expert witness.

And yes, I have fired a .380 in a 9mm Sig P-226... it did fire but didn’t have the oomph to cycle it.

Most crooks aren’t very gun savvy either. I’ve also been on a scene where some crook had a mixed-ammo magazine and a .45 GAP round fired but jammed a .45 Glock. Another time some guy had two .40 S&W ammo rounds mixed in at the bottom of a 1911 mag with five .45 ACP rounds on top. I have no idea how the .40 rounds stayed in the mag when it was loaded, but it was in there. These cases are always fun to explain.

Stay safe.,