Cabelas mishap- opinions

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Palladan44

Palladan44

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I purchased what I thought was a .30-30 pre 64
lever action Winchester Model 94 from used rack at Cabelas. I was happy with it for the money. It was advertised and tagged as a 30-30. The barrel is rollmarked 30 WCF (What the .30-30 was called prior to 1950 or so) so it looked great to me.... I missed a subtle detail though....

The bore had been rechambered at some point, to a 30-30 AI. Stands for Ackley Improved. The cartridge has sharper shoulders for greater case capacity and headspacing. Rifles were modified by gunsmiths to this chambering on occasion.

Since i wasnt expecting this, i was a little disappointed. Tried to return it, but it was refused because it was beyond the 30 or 60 day return policy. I argued they sold me a rifle in a caliber that wasnt accurate, but they denied anyways. (Guy on the phone at the gun counter said)
Should i try and plead my case to some Cabelas Higher ups?? Scary thing is, if it was rechambered to a different caliber, and wrong ammunition is used, someone could get seriously hurt.

Do we think this is right? Or is this my fault?
Buy a used gun, and you get what you get?? Buyer beware? Moral of the story, look at the shoulder angle of the breech, it might be modified to another chambering.

Thinking about reloading for this caliber someday, brass is fire formed easily and safely out of 30,30. It just caught me by surprise.
 
You should talk to the store manager. A reasonable resolution would be for Cabelas to give you full store credit.I'm pretty sure that cash refund is out of reach given the elapsed time.
What did you mean by "30 or 60 days"? How long was it from the transaction until you went back to the store with the issue?
 
Why did it take you so long to realize it? Was the barrel not stamped? (It sounded like it was). If it was properly marked, then, sorry, but IMO, that is on you. I was in a Gander Mountain before the reorg and when they had used gun racks; they had a neat 16 gauge and on the tag it was listed as 2-3/4", yet the proof marks clearly showed it to be 2-9/16". When pointed out to their "gunsmith", he dropped a dummy round in and said it was 2-3/4". The take-away is this -0 believe what id on the gun before what is on the tag written by some minimum wage worker who yesterday was stocking shoes
 
George P said:
Why did it take you so long to realize it? Was the barrel not stamped? (It sounded like it was). If it was properly marked, then, sorry, but IMO, that is on you. I was in a Gander Mountain before the reorg and when they had used gun racks; they had a neat 16 gauge and on the tag it was listed as 2-3/4", yet the proof marks clearly showed it to be 2-9/16". When pointed out to their "gunsmith", he dropped a dummy round in and said it was 2-3/4". The take-away is this -0 believe what id on the gun before what is on the tag written by some minimum wage worker who yesterday was stocking shoes
Click to expand...
I didnt get a chance to fire it for a month or 2. I forgot the actual return policy days, all i know is i was beyond the limit. There were no proof marks other than original from WIN when it was born as an actual 30-30.
 
Not sure on the 30-30 AI but a lot of AI cartridges can fire factory ammo of the original designation. It simply fire forms the brass and is ready for a little extra powder upon reloading and there ya go. Do a little research and you might want to keep it after all.
 
I finally got around to firing it, and when i went to pick up the brass, i just about soiled my undies (i had no clue what 3030 AI was at the time, i originally thought something dangerous had just occurred, rightfully so. I know fire forming is safe, it just surprised the heck out of me. I havnt really seen the need to reload it. I guess just less than ideal, and not what i thought i had purchased.
 
While its something I definitely wouldn't like i think you'd have an uphill battle trying to get full money back. While not a true 3030 if it still functions safely with factory 3030 ammo I dont think there's a lot you can do. Just my opinion and good luck
 
If I recall right, P.O. Ackley designed his Improved chamberings so regular factory ammo could be fired through them.

If they won’t budge and you want to keep it, confirm the chambering dimensions of your rifle by buying some Cerrosafe from Midway/Brownells and make a chamber cast. Measure it out and compare to the AI specs found on the ‘net.

If it is a .30-30 AI, you should be able to chamber and fire factory .30-30 ammo, and then you’ll have fire formed cases to reload when you’re done. Cartridges of the World used to have basic load data in it and dies can be found for it.

If it isn’t a standard .30-30 AI, you may have to go extra-custom on the dies using the Cerrosafe casting for the die maker to measure and make them. This route won’t be cheap :(.

Good luck, too bad it’s been a pain so far.

Stay safe.
 
There are four warranties that cannot be waived. One of them is that what is delivered must match the description used to sell it. A seller cannot advertise one thing and deliver another. A defect such as this one is not easily promptly detected, and you trusted their description which was faulty.

Check their articles of incorporation (available online) and find out who their registered agent is. Send a polite letter, certified mail, return receipt requested and explain the situation. Bet you get a favorable response.
 
Well, here's a different take: congratulations.

30-30 AI is a cool cartridge, easily fireformed with regular 30-30 ammo (albeit that is rather scarce at the moment) for which dies are readily available. The only issue is whether there is any variation between chamber and dies. If so, Lee will do you a Custom collet neck-sizing die and seater for like $70 and pretty quick turn around.

Congrats on a cool rifle.
 
"I missed a subtle detail though...."

So did they. I can't imagine how one would tell with one's own micrometer-click eyeballs that the chamber had been modified and that goes for them, too.

You did your research and correctly figured out what had happened.

My position would have been try to keep the customer happy. The store credit would have probably done the trick and would have avoided any negative publicity.... I mean they spend millions a year in advertising to generate a positive image. The price of the gun was pifflefarts in terms of that number.

While the .30-30 can be fired in that chamber for fireforming, it is my recollection that velocities can be lots lower and pretty variable so accuracy (and the trajectory) suffers. Thus that first fireforming firing is largely a waste of ammunition.

My personal feeling is that too many great gun guru reputations were made by simply rechambering a standard cartridge, as in the "Improved Ackley" series. It gets me P.O.-ed.<grin>

I would almost be willing to bet that the owner who sold the gun to Cabela's was not aware of the niceties and did not really realize the ejected cases were diifferent and turned the gun in because it had crappy crappy crappy accuracy with the store-boughten .30-30 ammo he probably used.

(I got ten bucks even odds on that one. If both our crystal balls are accurate.)

Terry, 230RN
 
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Like Denton said in post #12; how hard over are you for a 30-30? Is the AI that objectionable if the chamber is correct?
 
Palladan44 said:
Moral of the story, look at the shoulder angle of the breech, it might be modified to another chambering.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I could tell if a 30-30 had been re-chambered to a 30-30 AI by looking at the "shoulder angle of the breech." If it wasn't marked, I'd probably find out the same way you did - by looking at a fire-formed case I'd ejected from it.
 
denton said:
There are four warranties that cannot be waived. One of them is that what is delivered must match the description used to sell it. A seller cannot advertise one thing and deliver another. A defect such as this one is not easily promptly detected, and you trusted their description which was faulty.

Check their articles of incorporation (available online) and find out who their registered agent is. Send a polite letter, certified mail, return receipt requested and explain the situation. Bet you get a favorable response.
Click to expand...

Excellent point.

George P said:
If it was rechambered and NOT marked, then I would agree you have a legit complaint
Click to expand...

If you decide that you do not wish to keep the modified rifle , these two posts show the way.
As to whether to keep the AI , I would be inclined to want an unmodified rifle , but truthfully I have zero expertise regarding the Ackerly mod.

Please clarify as to whether the gun was marked as per the modification - that is a key factor in this equation.
 
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How much of your time will be spent fighting this issue, and how much is your time worth?

You might be better off keeping the gun. You might even be able to turn a profit buy selling a custom hunting rifle
 
I would advise that the proof is in the pudding. How does it shoot for you? I would say if accuracy with the ammo you use is on par, then keep it. Isn't that why you purchased it to begin with? If you reload, you will need dies, but if you don't and it shoots regular loads just fine, then no worries?
 
If you paid by credit card you can try to dispute the charge with the bank. Cabelas will definitely listen to a bank but the bank may have a no firearms policy. Worth a try.
 
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