Warning use of Debit Card for Cabelas on-line purchases

[BSA1]

Heads up with the Holiday Season approaching.

Last Saturday (10-11) I ordered a C&B revolver from Cabelas on-line website. I paid for the order of $ 218.00 with my debit card . Unfortunately Cabelas ONLY ships by UPS and I have a lot of past delivery problems wih UPS. Due to shift work I am only home in the mornings and UPS will not deliver in the AM. They are very clear deliveries are only when and if they want to do it. Since UPS will not deliver when I am home yesterday I told them to return the package back to Cabelas.

I then called Cabelas to see if I could get the item shipped to me by FedEx or USPS but Cabelas refuses to go so. They told me they would refund my account for the returned gun and and would send another gun for in-store pick-up. I foolishly agreed and paid $ 216.00 by debit card.

This morning I called Cabelas to make sure my account had been refunded the $ 218.00 for the returned gun. They had not done so and proceeded to tell me it will take three weeks to refund it. I then told them I wanted to cancel my second order for $ 216.00 for the second order as I was paying twice for the same gun. They told me they could not cancel the order because I paid by debit card and I will have to go through the same three week waiting period for them to issue a refund.

I called my bank and since it is a pre-authorized debit transaction I can put a stop on the payment.

So Cabelas has $ 434.00 of my money, the gun and I am out the money for three weeks (if they decide to give me a refund).

So don't buy anything on-line with a debit card. I am learning a expensive lesson. Use credit card to protect yourself and to be able to get a refund.

 

[NOMI WASP]

They are correct in telling you this. A pre-auth can take up to 30 days to clear off your account. Technically they will not refund you, they just will not settle that authorization and the funds being held will be released back to your account.

This isn't a Cabelas issue. This is a PCI (payment card industry) standard. When you pay online, they pre auth your card until the item ships. When the item ships, the auth is settled because they close the batch, thus paying them and debiting you. Any authorization not settled will be released after 30 days. Your bank cannot do anything because they see an auth was made and the PCI rules say Cabelas has 30 days to settle that auth.

Can you tell I work in this industry?

 

[Reloadron]

I believe NOMI_WASP covered the debit card well. That sums it up.

Years ago it wasn't unusual to come home and find a little yellow UPS note from UPS where they attempted delivery of a signature required package and we weren't home. They would attempt delivery for three days. Anyway, I would just call them, find my package and go get it. Not always convenient but the hub was about a 30 min drive and I would get my stuff. While it worked for me I have no clue if that would work for you or how close you are to the UPS distribution point local to you.

Ron

 

[denton]

I don't use a debit card for any online purchases. A credit card limits your liability.

 

[NOMI WASP]

When he states debit card, he's using his bank/check card as a credit sale because websites don't ask for your PIN number. Here's a little advise, never use your card as a debit because it's harder to get your money back because the card has to be present to refund with your pin. Also, you don't get the visa/mastercard purchase protection using the card as a debit.

 

[Normandy]

I won't even use a debit card. My credit card gives me cash back, and the convenience of paying once a month instead of keeping track of bank balances.

The local gas station, where I did all my business, changed franchises and won't accept credit cards. Now another station gets all my business. And, as already said, I have purchase protection with my credit card.

 

[Field Tester]

They are correct in telling you this. A pre-auth can take up to 30 days to clear off your account. Technically they will not refund you, they just will not settle that authorization and the funds being held will be released back to your account.

This isn't a Cabelas issue. This is a PCI (payment card industry) standard. When you pay online, they pre auth your card until the item ships. When the item ships, the auth is settled because they close the batch, thus paying them and debiting you. Any authorization not settled will be released after 30 days. Your bank cannot do anything because they see an auth was made and the PCI rules say Cabelas has 30 days to settle that auth.

Can you tell I work in this industry?

NOMI pretty much stated it all. Except I have a different experience processing the transactions. The second could actually be canceled and batch closed, but it's a bit of extra work, a bit time consuming and most businesses won't do it because of the possibility of fraud.
Cabela's could have the second canceled within a few days if they really wanted to. The first refund could also be processed quicker in a different manner, but again they delay it because of fraud protection.
I've done both before at my previous job, but they were special circumstances.

 

[blarby]

I had an enormous issue with cabelas and a debit card in 2011.

Ended up having to cancel the card to get them to stop charging and refunding the card. :/

Horrible.

Took a long time to give them even a penny, and I'll only do it in the local store- never electronically ever again.

Didn't have anything to do with your type of issue though, completely different.

I feel your pain.


As frequently stated, when buying online and you want protection- use a real credit card !

 

[BSA1]

Oh Great!

Now Cabelas can refuse to refund my money for 30 days. Well I guess they will use everything in the law to their advantage.

But this isn't about bashing Cabelas. It about protecting yourself when making on-line purchases. Don't be a fool like I was and don't believe what the customer service representatives tell you.

 

[Field Tester]

Oh Great!

Now Cabelas can refuse to refund my money for 30 days. Well I guess they will use everything in the law to their advantage.

But this isn't about bashing Cabelas. It about protecting yourself when making on-line purchases. Don't be a fool like I was and don't believe what the customer service representatives tell you.

In Cabela's defense, this is all stated to you when you sign up for your credit/debit card. They're not doing anything extra that most businesses don't do. This is really one of the few ways they can prevent fraud in exchange for the convince of using a card.
The second funds aren't actually removed from your account, just in a pending hold. They won't actually process, so you can still use that money.
Cabela's doesn't have $434.00 of your money, rather $216.00.
And again, you stated you knew UPS's shipping practices before purchasing, so I fail to see how this is Cabela's fault.

I'm not trying to rag on you, but explain how the process works.
But you are correct in that this is a good reminder to everyone with the major purchasing season coming up.

 

[BSA1]

Field Tester,

You are absolutely right that the whole thing is my fault. I am ignorant of how on-line purchases work. Thanks to the forum members I am wiser. It is always up to the customer to protect themselves. I didn't.

Just to be clear they do have the $ 218.00 from my purchase on the 11th. Call it anything you want but they have and I don't.

Second they have another $ 216.00 from yesterday's purchase.

Third the standard shipping rate did not specify UPS as the shipper. Maybe it is in the fine print. It is something I could have avoided if I had placed my order by telephone. My bad.

Fourth I have learned a very expensive lesson about the danger of using my debit card for on-line purchases.

Fifth I foolishly believed what the Cabelas customer service representative told me yesterday about getting a refund. Alarm bells were going off in my head but Cabelas is a national chain that treats it's customers right.

Sixth how can I spend money that has been taken out of my account by the bank? My bank statement shows the money has been withdrawn.

Seven What fraud? They have the merchandise. They have my money.

Like I said I foolishly believe their lies when alarim bells were going off in my head. Again my bad. I know it is going to be a long time before I get my money back.

Oh Well there's nothing like a old fool. Take heed and learn from my mistake.

 

[Reloadron]

Don't be a fool like I was and don't believe what the customer service representatives tell you.

You weren't a fool so lighten up on yourself. You weren't quite savvy with a debit card and after a steep learning curve were kind enough to share your experience so others may not make the same mistake. The way I see it you weren't a fool and Cabela's wasn't a villain either. Could have been any online retailer. Lesson learned and hopefully someone else will be spared because you shared.

Thanks
Ron

 

[Geno]

Sorry to hear about your difficulty with Cabelas. I will add to the thread, plain and simply do not ever use a debit card...period. JMHO.

Geno

 

[George Dickel]

If the package has to be signed for and no one is at home the driver will return it to the UPS center. You can call the UPS office and ask them to hold the package at their distribution facility. You go there and sign for it when you are off shift. I've had to do that a few times because the wife and I worked out of town and weren't at home during the day.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

If the package has to be signed for and no one is at home the driver will return it to the UPS center. You can call the UPS office and ask them to hold the package at their distribution facility. You go there and sign for it when you are off shift. I've had to do that a few times because the wife and I worked out of town and weren't at home during the day.

Yeah, kind of wondering why this wasn't the course of action. I've had plenty of packages I knew were going to need a signature go straight to the UPS center and wait there for me.

 

[Beveaux]

I'm in the gasoline business and the delay in issuing credits back to our customers' accounts is strictly on their bank. Not us. We run the credit to cancel the transaction and that shows up on our daily settlement.

You should walk into your bank and demand that they refund your money immediately. In my experience, usually with a little stern talk with the 23 year old brand manager, they will extend the courtesy and give you your money.

 

[Field Tester]

I'm in the gasoline business and the delay in issuing credits back to our customers' accounts is strictly on their bank. Not us. We run the credit to cancel the transaction and that shows up on our daily settlement.

You should walk into your bank and demand that they refund your money immediately. In my experience, usually with a little stern talk with the 23 year old brand manager, they will extend the courtesy and give you your money.

That's not how it works though. It's processed through a 3rd party.

 

[Twiki357]

What Geno said in post 13. Never, never ever use a debit card for anything. You may as well but cash halfway into your back pocket so that anyone who walks by can help themselves. Every time I get a new ATM card from my bank it has debit card capability and I cut it up and make them send me a card without POS (Point of sale/debitcard) capability.

With a credit card you have some protection and can dispute a transaction. A debit card takes right out of your account and it’s gone. Then you have this kind of hassle to go through to get it back….. maybe.

 

[rcmodel]

I will add to the thread, plain and simply do not ever use a debit card...period. JMHO.
Geno

Whats a Debit Card?

Is that the thing I Only use to get cash out of the ATM machine at the bank, to buy guns and stuff with, in cash?

Credit Cards?
Is that like the faded VISA one in my billfold I haven't used for about a year & a half?

Plastic is the Spawn of the Devil I tell ya!

If you ain't broke now, you will be when you start buying on Plastic!

rc

 

[Reloadron]

Whats a Debit Card?

Is that the thing I Only use to get cash out of the ATM machine at the bank, to buy guns and stuff with, in cash?

Credit Cards?
Is that like the faded VISA one in my billfold I haven't used for about a year & a half?

Plastic is the Spawn of the Devil I tell ya!

If you ain't broke now, you will be when you start buying on Plastic!

rc

You got it and I believe covered it well. However, we do use the Cabela's Visa and pay the full balance monthly when the bill comes in. Never use a debit card. Bad things can happen.

Ron

 

[HoosierQ]

Whats a Debit Card?

Is that the thing I Only use to get cash out of the ATM machine at the bank, to buy guns and stuff with, in cash?

Credit Cards?
Is that like the faded VISA one in my billfold I haven't used for about a year & a half?

Plastic is the Spawn of the Devil I tell ya!

If you ain't broke now, you will be when you start buying on Plastic!

rc

Amen. Got divorced. Went nuts. Went plastic happy. Poor-house. Still digging out.

For buying online, I go one step further. I buy one of those drugstore VISA cards (Vanilla Visa). $5 for any amount. I get one for the exact amount of the purchase and use that. So even if I get hacked, so what? It's a card with either $.00 or $1.37.

 

[tarosean]

What Geno said in post 13. Never, never ever use a debit card for anything. You may as well but cash halfway into your back pocket so that anyone who walks by can help themselves.

oh come on guys.... Ive used Debit cards exclusively for 15yrs +...

Yes, my account has been hacked twice. Less than my CC's when I used to have them.

However, my bank is good (Not a National Chain) and they catch it quickly and the money is back in my account within hours.

 

[BSA1]

If the package has to be signed for and no one is at home the driver will return it to the UPS center. You can call the UPS office and ask them to hold the package at their distribution facility. You go there and sign for it when you are off shift. I've had to do that a few times because the wife and I worked out of town and weren't at home during the day

I am aware of that. However I live in the country in another county so it is a long drive. In retrospect though...

I will add to the thread, plain and simply do not ever use a debit card...period. JMHO.

Actually this is turning out to be a good teachable moment for me. I didn't know that a company has 30 days to decide to issue a refund on debit card purchases and that a pre-authorization can not be canceled even though the merchandise has not been shipped.

We have got into the habit of heavily using our debit card as it is so convenient. We have got out of the credit card trap and it feels great. Although we hate credit cards I am going to start shopping around for one. It's good idea to have one for emergencies anyway.

I also realize how lucky and spoiled I have been with other firearms related companies with getting debit card refunds. Sadly with large corporation like Cabelas they forget about the customer and only care about the cash flow and balance sheet.

The good news is I am fairly confident that I will get refund within the next 30 days. The best thing for me to do now is just sit back and avoid making them angry at me. I have already filed a billing dispute with my bank.

Like I said this isn't intended to be bash Cabelas thread. I have learned a lot from you guys and the dangers of paying for my purchases, especially on-line, by debit card. THR members are very helpful.

Thanks again.

p.s. This thing as me thinking about getting a 45 Colt Conversion cylinder for my 1858 Remmie instead. It is easy to get one for a more customer friendly company.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Don't use a debit card ever for anything.

 

[frgood]

I would like to add a small clarification a pre auth can be cancelled by the agency if they contact the bank directly. The bank has a procedure for this that Cabella's can execute if they are willing to take the time.

I've had this situation with hotels that have pre-auth stays on the wrong card. It does require a willingness on the vendor to take the time to get the authorizaiotn cancelled. In my case, it took a day just to get everyone on the line and to get the right paperwork faxed. Once the process was settled the funds were cleared into my account after a 3 hour transaction window.

Mind you, I was a tad more insistent as it involved several thousand dollars and the hotel had a vested interest as we were regulars there.

I just wanted to add that as a sidebar to this conversation.