Laser/light for HD pistol.

Status
Not open for further replies.
i have lasers on my carbines, but for most pistols i prefer RMR optic.
i do have one FNP 45 Tactical with streamlight light/laser and optic, and suppressor which would be perfect for HD except I moved away from 45acp to 9mm.
i'm hoping to more or less replicate that with a silencerco maxim 9, optic and light/laser.

however, the lasers in question are IR, not viz.

my fav is the streamlight TLR VIR 2. i posted a video of it in this thread, though you can't see the IR laser since i'm using the white light
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/streamlight-tlr-vir-ii.875796/#post-11657105
 
Couple things; if you think you have somebody in your house, grab your gun and have a look. If you know there's someone, get your family, your gun and your light, and get in a corner while you call 911.
Clearing a house, even your own house, is risky business. And the wrong people can get shot. Get in that corner, and let the trouble come to you.
Realize that a weapons-mounted light can be handy, but my own inclination would be to point the light, and thus point the gun. A separate light avoids this problem.
Moon
 
A light on a home defense gun should be mandatory, so much so that the gun makers should be working out deals with weapon light companies where they'll offer a kit that includes that companies light and will buy thousands of lights up front, but at a bulk rate to pass that saving on to the first owner.

You don't need to go crazy high on the lumens, 100 is enough for typical indoor distances, 200 would be better tho. 600 lumens is way too much.

A laser can be nice, but don't rely on it.

An optic like a RMR red dot is overkill for a gun that's most likely to be used at under 7 yards.
 
Some of these responses make me wonder if the posters have it in their mind that they are going to go prowl through a dark house hunting a bad guy.
Me? I hear a bump in the night and/or the hounds go nuts & I'm locked in the bedroom calling 911 and not coming out until I'm told by the person on the other end of the line it's ok.
With that in mind - I have little to no use for a light and/or laser on a firearm for HD.
 
Some of these responses make me wonder if the posters have it in their mind that they are going to go prowl through a dark house hunting a bad guy.
Me? I hear a bump in the night and/or the hounds go nuts & I'm locked in the bedroom calling 911 and not coming out until I'm told by the person on the other end of the line it's ok.
With that in mind - I have little to no use for a light and/or laser on a firearm for HD.
I live in a smaller and older home. If they come through my front door, there will be no time to get to my bedroom door and try to wedge it shut with my body. There is no lock. The natural strategy is to role to the floor away from the bedroom door and behind the bed, using it as cover. That's where I keep my bedside gun at. And when I see the door open, blind them with a light, identify the target, and shoot.

Not everyone lives in the exact same setting or type of home you do. For some of us, a firearm with a light on it is the BEST option.

I do not go out much at night anymore. So a weapon mounted light for my carry gun is not a concern.

We all have different needs.
 
I live in the country and if I huddled in a corner and called 911 every time I heard a "bump", they'd be here all the time and I'd be a constant nervous wreck. That said, if you "know" someone is in your house, it's hard to argue with the plan of letting them come to you. Particularly when you have to tell your story in court.

I also firmly believe that when it comes to "tactical" lights and lumens, more is almost always better. These are lights used for defensive purposes. Not for looking for your car keys.

Safety concerns over pointing lights with guns attached, just because you point it, doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger. Shouldn't your finger be off the trigger anyway?
 
You don't need to go crazy high on the lumens, 100 is enough for typical indoor distances, 200 would be better tho. 600 lumens is way too much......An optic like a RMR red dot is overkill for a gun that's most likely to be used at under 7 yards.
I had my rangefinder handy so I checked some distances inside the house. My house is wider than it is deep, only 10yds from the front door to the back. However, the longest distance inside the house is 25yds long. I don't currently employ one but the advantage to a red dot like the RMR is that it's visible in the dark, you have a single focal point and it doesn't fade over time like tritium.
 
I was slow to accept them, but I have a light mounted on guns for HD use. I like one hand free for a lot of reasons and that isn't as easy with a separate light. I don't understand the argument that the bad guy can see you too. For one thing we are not trying to sneak up and assassinate someone. If they see the light come on and decide to leave then my mission is accomplished. If not then my light blinding them is to my advantage. And if the situation happens during daylight they can see me anyway.

I can appreciate a laser. I have had them on guns in the past and they allow you to get the gun aimed fairly accurately even when held in unconventional ways. I don't currently have one on any of my pistols, but don't oppose their use.

Like everything else both are just another tool in the toolbox. They don't solve every problem and if used wrong can produce the wrong outcome. But used correctly can be helpful.
 
The problem with the Tom Givens quote, is that people that fail to identify their target in the dark, don't get to go to nice pistol classes, they go to jail.

It's like asking a class of fat Kids if any of them every felt the need to include broccoli in a bag of M&M's.

Night house and shot timer say: Light yes, laser no. For me, at least.
 
Citation??? Color me skeptical on that claim.
Here are a couple. Only police related ones where someone dies seem to make the news. There are likely more examples out there

https://www.rawstory.com/2014/06/gu...se-of-accidental-police-shootings-across-u-s/

Police departments across the United States are increasingly questioning the necessity of gun-mounted flashlights after new reports indicate that they may be responsible for an uptick in accidental shootings.

David Olinger and Christopher Osher at The Denver Post reported on the case of Ronny Flanagan, a decorated police officer in Plano, Texas who accidentally shot Michael Alcala, Jr. when trying to turn on his gun-mounted flashlight in 2010.

https://www.denverpost.com/2014/06/07/gun-mounted-flashlights-linked-to-accidental-shootings/

Ronny Flanagan took pride in his record as a police officer in Plano, Texas. He had an incident-free career. He took safety training regularly. He was known at the range as a very good shot. Yet he killed a man when he was simply trying to press a flashlight switch mounted beneath the trigger on his pistol.
 
I don't understand the argument that the bad guy can see you too. For one thing we are not trying to sneak up and assassinate someone. If they see the light come on and decide to leave then my mission is accomplished.
If stealth is not a need, why not turn on the house lights?
 
Last edited:
The problem with the Tom Givens quote, is that people that fail to identify their target in the dark, don't get to go to nice pistol classes, they go to jail.
For perhaps a better understanding of the quote, these are his former students reporting back to him, post class. He taught them, they used what they learned in class, they survived and reported back.

His point is, we're not LE and we're not MIL (if we're talking LE and MIL, just use whatever procedure you're taught and it isn't part of this discussion), most of us spend very little time in total darkness, and if somebody is going to attack us, they need to be able to see us. Chances are good if they can see us, we can see them.

The other thing is, most of us live in a home with electricity. The reason LE and MIL have a mounted light is because they are required to enter facilities that have no electric lighting. Perhaps you have that requirement, and if so, your answer would be different than mine.
 
For perhaps a better understanding of the quote, these are his former students reporting back to him, post class. He taught them, they used what they learned in class, they survived and reported back.

His point is, we're not LE and we're not MIL (if we're talking LE and MIL, just use whatever procedure you're taught and it isn't part of this discussion), most of us spend very little time in total darkness, and if somebody is going to attack us, they need to be able to see us. Chances are good if they can see us, we can see them.

The other thing is, most of us live in a home with electricity. The reason LE and MIL have a mounted light is because they are required to enter facilities that have no electric lighting. Perhaps you have that requirement, and if so, your answer would be different than mine.

for a lot of us in more rural areas, "Home" Defense includes barns, garages and various outbuildings and grounds outside the home and around vehicles, where lighting can be suboptimal. houses are generally also not designed for defense, and light switches may be in an inconvenient location (more likely to illuminate yourself than the BG)
 
I live in the country and if I huddled in a corner and called 911 every time I heard a "bump", they'd be here all the time and I'd be a constant nervous wreck. That said, if you "know" someone is in your house, it's hard to argue with the plan of letting them come to you. Particularly when you have to tell your story in court.

When I first moved into my current home, my neighbors had some goats. One of the goats liked to come to our property at night and ram his head against the building siding. Nearly crawled out of my skin. Thankfully the neighbor put a stop to the goat's wanderings quickly. Raccoons and dogs get in the trash cans outside. Wild Turkeys thump on my stairs. Living in the country is not for anyone that calls 911 at every sound.

Ronny Flanagan took pride in his record as a police officer in Plano, Texas. He had an incident-free career. He took safety training regularly. He was known at the range as a very good shot. Yet he killed a man when he was simply trying to press a flashlight switch mounted beneath the trigger on his pistol.

I question the validity of this "report" as there are no duty approved lights I am aware of that have a switch beneath the trigger.
 
I had my rangefinder handy so I checked some distances inside the house. My house is wider than it is deep, only 10yds from the front door to the back. However, the longest distance inside the house is 25yds long. I don't currently employ one but the advantage to a red dot like the RMR is that it's visible in the dark, you have a single focal point and it doesn't fade over time like tritium.
My goodness, how did people shoot handguns for centuries before the advent of the RMR optic? :D

Tritium lasts a long time, like a really long time before they become so dim they're not visible.

I think I've only ever been in three houses that had a 25 yd straight line distance inside it. Congrats, you have a big home. I'd say a majority of people do not live in a house that's got a 25yd distance for a max shot. If they do, then they should choose a light that suits that distance.
 
Here are a couple. Only police related ones where someone dies seem to make the news. There are likely more examples out there

https://www.rawstory.com/2014/06/gu...se-of-accidental-police-shootings-across-u-s/

Police departments across the United States are increasingly questioning the necessity of gun-mounted flashlights after new reports indicate that they may be responsible for an uptick in accidental shootings.

David Olinger and Christopher Osher at The Denver Post reported on the case of Ronny Flanagan, a decorated police officer in Plano, Texas who accidentally shot Michael Alcala, Jr. when trying to turn on his gun-mounted flashlight in 2010.

https://www.denverpost.com/2014/06/07/gun-mounted-flashlights-linked-to-accidental-shootings/

Ronny Flanagan took pride in his record as a police officer in Plano, Texas. He had an incident-free career. He took safety training regularly. He was known at the range as a very good shot. Yet he killed a man when he was simply trying to press a flashlight switch mounted beneath the trigger on his pistol.
Not to get too off subject here, but with a lot of things police officers say after an event, only for video evidence to show their story doesn't hold up, I find the "meant to turn the light on" a convenient excuse along the lines of "I thought it was my taser."

It's a lot easier to get out of trouble in a questionable shooting saying you were trying to turn the light on than it is to say you were in fear of your life and have to provide evidence that showed the suspect was attempted to reach for a weapon.

In the age of body cameras, I expect this will become a much more common reason for unjustified police shootings.

herrwalther said:
I question the validity of this "report" as there are no duty approved lights I am aware of that have a switch beneath the trigger.
I have a Streamlight that uses a kind of paddle like button. Tilt the paddle counter-clockwise for a momentary one that when you release a spring pushes the paddle back to the off position, push clockwise and it clicks into place for constant on. The paddle extends back a bit past the front of the trigger guard so your trigger finger can manipulate it, but the difference between curling your finger to pull a trigger and straightening your finger to diddle a switch is obvious.
 
Last edited:
My goodness, how did people shoot handguns for centuries before the advent of the RMR optic? :D

Tritium lasts a long time, like a really long time before they become so dim they're not visible.

I think I've only ever been in three houses that had a 25 yd straight line distance inside it. Congrats, you have a big home. I'd say a majority of people do not live in a house that's got a 25yd distance for a max shot. If they do, then they should choose a light that suits that distance.
You wanna try all this with a candle and a brass bead?

How much time have you spent trying to find what works best in the dark? I've done quite a bit of it and I regularly practice in the dark. Iron sights, scopes, red dots, various hand held flashlights and finally weapon-mounted lights. Night sights are a definite improvement over standard sights but they're not perfect. They're still iron sights. They still have to be lined up and obscure the target area more than a red dot. There is no better setup (barring NVG) than a mounted weaponlight and a red dot. It's fairly well proven that they are quicker to acquire than irons. Like I said, I don't employ one for home defense and only have one micro reflex that I don't even like. I can still acknowledge the advantages they have on a home defense handgun. My bedside gun is a 1911 with a light and night sights.

As I said, I have a long home that is not very deep. I used to go into dozens of homes a day. You'd be surprised how many homes of average size have a very long hallway. Fact remains, just because you're inside your home, does not mean that engagement distance will automatically be very short. I've only been in one situation (maybe two) where I thought I might need my concealed carry handgun and my antagonist was a lot more than 7yds away, with a rifle. IMHO, it is a mistake to limit your training to short distances, banking on ALL confrontations being at such distances.
 
Here are a couple. Only police related ones where someone dies seem to make the news. There are likely more examples out there
I'm shocked. Obviously people with little or no training.


If stealth is not a need, why not turn on the house lights?
Why would stealth not be a need??? Somehow, taking one hand off your handgun and your focus away from the threat area to illuminate yourself doesn't sound like a good idea. Hopefully, whoever it is doesn't have any armed friends outside who can now see you and everything else going on inside.
 
Why would stealth not be a need???.
I didn't say stealth wasn't needed - I don't know, it may be, it may not be. I was responding to this post.
I don't understand the argument that the bad guy can see you too. For one thing we are not trying to sneak up and assassinate someone. If they see the light come on and decide to leave then my mission is accomplished. If not then my light blinding them is to my advantage. And if the situation happens during daylight they can see me anyway.
 
Last edited:
You wanna try all this with a candle and a brass bead?

How much time have you spent trying to find what works best in the dark? I've done quite a bit of it and I regularly practice in the dark. Iron sights, scopes, red dots, various hand held flashlights and finally weapon-mounted lights. Night sights are a definite improvement over standard sights but they're not perfect. They're still iron sights. They still have to be lined up and obscure the target area more than a red dot. There is no better setup (barring NVG) than a mounted weaponlight and a red dot. It's fairly well proven that they are quicker to acquire than irons. Like I said, I don't employ one for home defense and only have one micro reflex that I don't even like. I can still acknowledge the advantages they have on a home defense handgun. My bedside gun is a 1911 with a light and night sights.

As I said, I have a long home that is not very deep. I used to go into dozens of homes a day. You'd be surprised how many homes of average size have a very long hallway. Fact remains, just because you're inside your home, does not mean that engagement distance will automatically be very short. I've only been in one situation (maybe two) where I thought I might need my concealed carry handgun and my antagonist was a lot more than 7yds away, with a rifle. IMHO, it is a mistake to limit your training to short distances, banking on ALL confrontations being at such distances.
No argument from me on the last part, I think people who are only shooting at 7yds or less away are not doing themselves any favors if they ever needed to shoot at 15 or 25 yds away. When I'm shooting the steel plates at my club's outdoor pit area, I'm always shooting 12yds to 20yds away, while most others are about 5-7 yds away.

One thing I do have to ask is, how many burglars and home invaders are packing rifles instead of handguns these days to where that's a legit thing to be concerned about? I think someone winning the lottery is more likely to happen than a rifle wielding burglar breaking in to their home. Now, if it's some sort of organized home invasion by a trained paramilitary strike force that's got rifles and body armor, I don't think any handgun in anyone's hands who isn't named John Wick is able to fend that type of attack off.

I don't hear of many paramilitary forces doing that in the United States... yet, so let's factor that possible, yet unlikely situation out.

Again, I see an obsession with "The Best" as you are stating that nothing surpasses a red dot w/ a weapon light on a home defense pistol for no light/low light situations. That's a pretty good setup, possibly the best, but I don't see it as necessary, I don't see it as far and away superior to justify the cost.

Of course every time I make that argument, the knee jerk reaction is always along the lines of "is that all your life is worth to you?"

The point of self defense should not be how much you're willing to spend to have "The Best", it is to have the tools available that give you a significant advantage that way you can live and enjoy the rest of your life as you see fit and use your money to facilitate that enjoyment.

That's not to say if someone feels they need a 1000 lumen light that costs $200, a $500 red dot, and a $1000 pistol to ensure their safety that they shouldn't buy it, they absolutely should... but that's not to say that a $200 stock Taurus with a $40 light can't do the same thing when the chips are down.

Does that mean I'm trying to say that a quality red dot and a bright as the sun light aren't the best tools? No, they're pretty good, but so much better that they're "The Best" for everyone... as one Paul Harrell would say, "You be the judge."
 
I have a Streamlight that uses a kind of paddle like button. Tilt the paddle counter-clockwise for a momentary one that when you release a spring pushes the paddle back to the off position, push clockwise and it clicks into place for constant on. The paddle extends back a bit past the front of the trigger guard so your trigger finger can manipulate it, but the difference between curling your finger to pull a trigger and straightening your finger to diddle a switch is obvious.

I suspect that is by design. I believe Surefire was the first to use that paddle design for weapon lights, but not sure. My weapon light is also a Streamlight. To turn on the light, you push forward on a button. The opposite direction of a trigger. And the buttons are on both sides of the front trigger guard, a relatively far distance away from the trigger.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top