Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Just out of curiosity, are their any 03 rifles that have been rechambered and/or originally chambered in .308?
1903 Springfield/03a3 in .308?
- Thread starter Heir Kommt Die Sonne
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Only thing I'm confused about would be how would they chamber something into a shorter cartridge?
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
where do I find these?
You would have to rebarrel the rifle. As far as chamber inserts go, there are a few different companies that make them. I have no interest or experience in chamber inserts but a Google search should produce the information.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
The Navy gave up on the idea because the inserts had a nasty habit of coming loose.
Rebarreling is a far better solution.
https://criterionbarrels.com/products/m1903a3/m1903a3-24-308-win-barrel/?v=00dc5da36527
Criterion has them in stock.
FL-NC
Member
I have seen Garands, Enfields, and Mausers that were rebarrelled or rechambered for 308, but never a '03.
kBob
Member
I sense a disturbance in the Force like thousands of 03ophiles just cried out in anguish.
-kBob
-kBob
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Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
This sounds like a awesome project actually. Thank you.
The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider... unnatural. Like rebarreling a 30.06 in .308
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Through Victory, my chains are broken- the Force shall set me free.
BigBlue 94
Member
In my research because of a recent 03A3 purchase, I think ive seen of a couple chambered by someone in 308.
One thing it would let you do is run the really long target bullets that wouldnt normally fit in a short action.
Look at it this way, if you re barrel it to 308, whats keeping you from re-re barreling it back to '06 at some point? Do what makes you happy.
One thing it would let you do is run the really long target bullets that wouldnt normally fit in a short action.
Look at it this way, if you re barrel it to 308, whats keeping you from re-re barreling it back to '06 at some point? Do what makes you happy.
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CapnMac
Member
They were developed for the Garand for post-war use. And were a colossal failure (almost as bad as when the inserts failed).
USN wound up rebarreling all of its Garands.
Now, if a person were of a mind to .308 an 03A3, they could seek out a 1919 barrel in .308, and have that machined to fit the 03A3. It will not be elegant, and will want a custom spacer for the magazine. There are significantly easier ways to get a .308 rifle.
BigBlue 94
Member
Since the 1903 is basically a mauser copy, is it possible to use a pre-made barrel for a G98?
Stan Rosen
Member
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No. They have different threads, diameters, and the 1903 has a coned breech similar to the Winchester Model 70.
tark
Member
Why would anybody want to turn a 30-06 rifle into a 308?
kBob
Member
To be fair to the Navy, they did not have the adhesives we have today in 1959.
I believe MC Ace still makes -06 to .308 adaptors and recommends and or provides adhesive.
Now I must say 40 "Hail John Moses Brownings" and give reloads to the poor .....
-kBob
I believe MC Ace still makes -06 to .308 adaptors and recommends and or provides adhesive.
Now I must say 40 "Hail John Moses Brownings" and give reloads to the poor .....
-kBob
CapnMac
Member
My memory is that the original adapters were malleable bronze and were "fire fit" to the chambers, and not glued at all.
And, while thinking about it, were there a simple and reliable adapter, the MG community would be all over it, six ways to Sunday. As, to answer this question, too:
Ammo cost.
Jim Watson
Member
Well, the Navy did it because the Army had gone to 7.62 M14s but they were stuck with M1s and needed to be able to use fresh ammo. The official procedure was more elaborate than just dropping in the insert and shooting to expand it to fit.
As I recall, first the chamber was recut with a maximum .30-06 reamer to get it to a standard size the insert was made to fit.
Then it was degreased, the insert pushed in, and a 7.62 proof round fired, to really settle the insert with 30% excess pressure. Then a service round to be sure.
The gas port was enlarged to account for the 7.62's lower muzzle pressure. I don't know if they put a block in the magazine, but the clips were splayed a bit to take the straighter case.
As said, the inserts had a habit of extracting with a shell. They tried reaming grooves and applying Loctite but nothing was permanent. So they bought new barrels. There were a lot of ins and outs, but the rebarrelled rifles shot well. Some target shooters thought them better than an M14 NM when fitted up to match standards.
If I wanted a .308 03A3 the first thing I would do is to see if the unaltered rifle would feed .308s from magazine to .30 chamber or if changes would have to be made there. If not, I would have a new DCM Criterion barrel put on and not do a kluge with a surplus MG barrel unless I was set up to turn it to profile etc.
As I recall, first the chamber was recut with a maximum .30-06 reamer to get it to a standard size the insert was made to fit.
Then it was degreased, the insert pushed in, and a 7.62 proof round fired, to really settle the insert with 30% excess pressure. Then a service round to be sure.
The gas port was enlarged to account for the 7.62's lower muzzle pressure. I don't know if they put a block in the magazine, but the clips were splayed a bit to take the straighter case.
As said, the inserts had a habit of extracting with a shell. They tried reaming grooves and applying Loctite but nothing was permanent. So they bought new barrels. There were a lot of ins and outs, but the rebarrelled rifles shot well. Some target shooters thought them better than an M14 NM when fitted up to match standards.
If I wanted a .308 03A3 the first thing I would do is to see if the unaltered rifle would feed .308s from magazine to .30 chamber or if changes would have to be made there. If not, I would have a new DCM Criterion barrel put on and not do a kluge with a surplus MG barrel unless I was set up to turn it to profile etc.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Funny, while I was comfortable having my M1 Garand converted to 7.62 NATO by the CMP Custom Shop due to local (California, ugh!) ammo cost and availability issues, I never considered doing the same to my mil-spec '03.
Recreating M2 ball for a Garand via handloading is (arguably) a bit of a chore, while you can run any commercial 30-06 ammo through an '03. Making suitable '06 handloads for a bolt action is also quite a bit easier and more affordable.
CapnMac
Member
Yeah, if difficult to match the original 172 FMJBT Match ammo, the 168 Sierra MatchKings load up to be quite spiffy target loads.
Jim Watson
Member
I don't recall what Hatcher said about the powder in the 173 gr M1 load the M1 rifle was built to shoot, but surely we can match it out of the wider selection nowadays.
J-Bar
Member
Agree.
Grandpa said, “With a big enough hammer and lots of money you can do anything.” He also said, “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.”
03-A3s are no longer being made. Respect for the rifle itself is important.
The Army was working on the T65, IIRC in 1952 or so and Winchester ended up introducing it as the 308 Win about that time. I was in high school & puttering around in a gunsmith friend's shop at the time and he had mounted a brand new M1917 Browning MG barrel in a 98 Mauser action and inletted it in a Bishop stock. Due to the groove cut just forward of the chamber for better water cooling, the 1/2" shorter case of the 308 was a perfect round.
He offered to "sell" me the rifle at his cost and walk me through the steps left to complete the project. The low cost of 98 actions and the new surplus barrel made it a real bargain. What a great opportunity for a youngster to complete such a project while being mentored by such an accomplished gunsmith. The stock was inletted only, still remained to be shaped.
Long story short, a few months later we finished what turned out to be the first .308 in town. Brass was not available so we formed it from 30-06. Unfortunately, the (perfectly beautiful bore) MG barrel was not accurate at published 7.62 velocities so we ended up putting 6mm Rem. barrel in it after shooting it w/reduced loads for a while. The Mod 98 feeds both of the shorter cartridges fine and no spacer block was required, however I do not know if he had altered the feed lips prior to my acquisition or not.
In the mid 80's I had a .308 Garand built for service rifle competition by a retired AMU armorer. He used a commercial Springfield Armory receiver, and when asked if it needed the magazine spacer, he said no. The rifle functioned just as well as my 30-06 Garand for several thousand rounds but began experienced feeding issues, first on the 8th round and then on 7th & 8th round, which I finally tracked down to a weak op-rod spring, which reduced the tension on the follower arm. This allowed the last rounds in the magazine to work their way forward in the magazine during recoil of previous rounds. The bolt would then accelerated forward and "bat" the rounds hard enough to jam bullet points above the chamber. I added a magazine block at that time for good measure and replaced the spring and all was good again.
So, yes, the 308 will work in a Garand, and I'm sure it would in an 03, as well, but can't see that there is any real advantage to do so.
Most service rifle competitors used 47 gr. H4895 behind a 147 or 150 gr fmj bullet to duplicate ballistics of M2 ball. Same load behind a 168 gr. SMK matches M72 Match. Care must be used to avoid high primers, for use in gas guns to avoid slam-fires.
Regards,
hps
He offered to "sell" me the rifle at his cost and walk me through the steps left to complete the project. The low cost of 98 actions and the new surplus barrel made it a real bargain. What a great opportunity for a youngster to complete such a project while being mentored by such an accomplished gunsmith. The stock was inletted only, still remained to be shaped.
Long story short, a few months later we finished what turned out to be the first .308 in town. Brass was not available so we formed it from 30-06. Unfortunately, the (perfectly beautiful bore) MG barrel was not accurate at published 7.62 velocities so we ended up putting 6mm Rem. barrel in it after shooting it w/reduced loads for a while. The Mod 98 feeds both of the shorter cartridges fine and no spacer block was required, however I do not know if he had altered the feed lips prior to my acquisition or not.
In the mid 80's I had a .308 Garand built for service rifle competition by a retired AMU armorer. He used a commercial Springfield Armory receiver, and when asked if it needed the magazine spacer, he said no. The rifle functioned just as well as my 30-06 Garand for several thousand rounds but began experienced feeding issues, first on the 8th round and then on 7th & 8th round, which I finally tracked down to a weak op-rod spring, which reduced the tension on the follower arm. This allowed the last rounds in the magazine to work their way forward in the magazine during recoil of previous rounds. The bolt would then accelerated forward and "bat" the rounds hard enough to jam bullet points above the chamber. I added a magazine block at that time for good measure and replaced the spring and all was good again.
So, yes, the 308 will work in a Garand, and I'm sure it would in an 03, as well, but can't see that there is any real advantage to do so.
Most service rifle competitors used 47 gr. H4895 behind a 147 or 150 gr fmj bullet to duplicate ballistics of M2 ball. Same load behind a 168 gr. SMK matches M72 Match. Care must be used to avoid high primers, for use in gas guns to avoid slam-fires.
Regards,
hps
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Dave DeLaurant
Member
Agreed both times. And with a Schuster gas plug you can widen the selection still further.
It was pretty easy for me to find good bulk deals on brand new M80 ball back in 2019 however, so as with 5.56 and 9x19 pistol fodder I was lazy about 7.62 NATO and just stocked up new ammo for it instead of reloading.
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