1903 Springfield/03a3 in .308?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Heir Kommt Die Sonne, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    Criterion makes a replacement barrel in this caliber. Both military and sporter configurations. Please do not do this on an intact Springfield. There are plenty of sporter rifles altered beyond restoration out there to play with at very reasonable prices. I do believe the Phillipines rebarreled both m17s and Springfields to. 308 successfully.
     
  2. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    Now those would be interesting to learn more about -- have you seen anything about them and their use in print?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Strange, why did it credit that to me instead of to Random 8 immediately above?
     
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  4. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    My bad -- my edit took out the wrong attribution. At least I think that's what happened. Anyway, I went back and fixed it.
     
  5. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    Originally it had IMR 17, 1185 or 1186..

    Its easily duplicated using powders from 3031 to varget/H380 no adjustable screws are needed in the rifle.
     
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  6. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    @Dave DeLaurant , I believe it was an old Rifleman article. Going from memory
     
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  7. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Yes, but every time someone defiles an M1903A3, the value of my unaltered M1903A3s goes up.
     
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  8. Heir Kommt Die Sonne

    Heir Kommt Die Sonne Member

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    I thank sporterizers not because they make the value of our guns go up, but because they make the value of their guns go down so therefore we can pick up project guns on the cheap.
     
  9. Sarge7402

    Sarge7402 Member

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  10. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    You got a point there -- when you sporterize a milsurp, you spend $500 to turn a $1,000 rifle into a $400 rifle.
     
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  11. Jesstang

    Jesstang Member

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    What if I said I have a 1903 that was chambered in the 308 with 21 inch 1.25 stainless bull barrel. It was built by Walker himself and is 1 of 15 built. It is part of the Mann accuracy devices. Does anyone know much about these rifles.
     
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  12. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Here ya go:
    The CMP Mann Accuracy Devices
    Steven T. Rutledge

    I first became aware of the “Mann Accuracy Device” when it was mentioned in Lt. Col. William S. Brophy’s THE SPRINGFIELD 1903 RIFLES. They are mentioned and photographs can be found on pages 226 and 227. At first glance, these devices actually look like a silencer or suppressor fitted to a 1903 action. At the time, I regarded them as a curiosity of another time.

    mann15.jpg


    7.62MM Devices

    There were only 15 devices chambered for this cartridge. The barrel length was approximately 21”. Manufacturers were Remington and Walker. Some of the barrel descriptions were electro-penciled, especially in the case of the Walkers. Receivers were the usual combination of Remington and Smith Corona. Barrels appeared to be stainless steel as well as blued.

    The drawing number on these devices was D7553790. In some instances this number was stamped on the barrel while being electro-penciled in other cases. Some of the bolts were numbered to the receivers and others were not.

    DATA SHEETS

    There were several “data sheets” found with some of the devices. These originated at the Lake City Army Ammo Plant. The sheet is a “fill in the blank” form titled “Accuracy/Pressure/Velocity Test Barrel Certification.” There is a space for the caliber that was filled in by hand or typed.

    The sheet contains the following information:

    1. This (accuracy) (pressure) (velocity) test barrel #F68 1029 596 ________ has been dimensionally accepted in accordance with drawing specification D-7553795_____ Rev. F-2-3-64_____Amend._____(SPECIAL)____________

    2. This (accuracy) (pressure) (velocity) test barrel has been ballistically accepted, using an appraised “check lot” of ammunition.

    a. 100 rounds were fired through this test barrel for “wear-in” purposes.
    b. Total number of rounds fired for test barrel acceptance = 100 + 10.


    DIMENSIONAL SIGNATURE__________DATE: 2-12-70

    BALLISTIC SIGNATURE______________DATE: 24 April 1970

    Read more here:
    http://www.odcmp.org/1001/mann_inc.asp

    Regards,
    hps
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  13. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    I've got a National Ordnance 03a3 sporter that I'm considering re-barreling in .308 and loading ammo to 7.62 CETME standards - just for the fun of it.
    I'm not really comfortable firing regular .30-06 in the gun as it is.
    Anyway, I'm already using 7.62 CETME in my re-barreled '16 Spanish Mauser... .
     
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  14. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I converted one Garand to 308 Win, needed to install the magazine spacer to reduce brass shavings in the magazines.

    I have one pre 64 M70 that would not feed 308 Win reliably until I purchased the short magazine conversion parts. My pre 64 was originally a 30-06 NM action, fed 30-06 fine, but 308 Win rounds slid around in the magazine and wound not feed correctly. Your rifle may or not feed reliably with a short round in the magazine. I would leave any M1903 with 30-06 length cartridges. Such as , 270Win, 35 Whelen.

    I did convert a CZ Mauser, originally in 7mm, to 308 Win. It is finicky about cartridge stacking.


    I owned a National Ordnance M1903A3. Did not shoot it much. Extracting a round became more difficult, and it was due the receiver seats peening. The bolt lugs were in a hole, and opening the bolt required getting those lugs out of the hole, and compressing the fired case. In time, the case head would have blown, and this would have happened to me.

    e0EZZzd.jpg

    4QYLX8C.jpg

    I would not fire any National Ordnance with anything. The best thing to do, is to remove the GI barrel, bolt, and other GI parts, and scrap the receiver. It is not worth getting hurt experimenting to determine the minimum load required to burst a case head.
     
  15. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    Please do not wreck a historic war rifle in .30-06 by installing a .308 barrel.

    If you want a .308 rifle their are hundreds out there to choose from. If you want an M1903 Springfield, they come in .30-06. This is not an undesirable characteristic and needs no alternation whatever.
     
  16. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Operating pressure for .308 is higher than for .30-06 and National Ordnance receivers ae not considered safe with either,
     
  17. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    -Maybe you're right.
    I've been thinking of spaying or neutering some beat-up bolt action to serve as part of my "Wasteland Wanderer" costume.
    This may be a prime candidate... .
     
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  18. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    BTW, operating pressures of 7.62 CETME are well below .308 pressures or I wouldn't be running them through the '16 Mauser.
     
  19. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    but '16 Mausers have been used extensively with that round. National Ordnance Springfields have no such track record.
     
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  20. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    True.
    That's why this one has remained unfired and is likely to be demoted to cosplay prop.
    I had considered using a Model 70 dummy but it was just too pretty for the job... .
     
  21. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I am just lery of anything National Ordnance.

    Chuck in Denver wrote:

    Keep shooting that bomb, and sooner or later, it will let loose, they are cast made actions, and most are well out of spec, headspace issues, fitting, rough, ect, worth the sum of GI parts, they made less the 2000 rifles, iv seen 3 rifles here in the Denver area that have failed, and another 3 on the net, not very good odds.. if you shoot that POS, please wear safety gloves and safety glasses.

    https://www.gunboards.com/threads/national-ordinance-1903ae-safe-or-unsafe.245891/

    yea,,, jack asses that didnt take my warning...and shot a Nat ord or Santa Fe POS>
    short story...
    me..dont shoot them they are unsafe...
    them.
    my gunsmith says its ok and you dont know anything..
    results..
    blown up rifle,...blood....jackass..
    guess id find another gunsmith..
    first rifle was a local guy, through a small gunstore...i tried to buy the rifle for years, the store closed, and the rifle ended up on GB a few years ago,,no i didnt get it , darnit.
    second with a scope is the guy i warned through the net...his so called gunsmith told him it was fine..drilled and tapped it for him..and told him i didnt know what i was saying...that thousands have been shooting for years...case head failure on the 71st round...factory ammo on both rifles...i have a few pics of other damaged Nat Ords and Santa Fes...as well as a faked up A4 built on a Nat Ord...and another that was cut in half with a dull hacksaw..

    http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=112934&page=3

    Santa Fe M1903A3-a caution on shooting
    There is considerable data out there on the Santa Fe/National Ordnance M1903A3 clones which feature a cast, rather than forged, receiver. Most opinion is not to shoot these because of documented failures due to improperly heat treatment.

    I recently purchased one of these as a non-shooter parts source. S/N is 5001400. On the basis of my examination the "do not shoot" warning is a wise one. This rifle is in very nice condition showing very little signs of wear or shooting. Apparently the original owner did shoot it a bit. On checking headspace I determined that it was in excess of the field gauge with the Remington 03A3 bolt that it came with. I have not yet removed the barrel, but when I get around to it, I expect to find some setback of the bolt lug seats due to improper heat treatment. Just for fun I may run a headspace check with a selection of new/un-worn bolts.

    Since my first post I ran a few new bolts, incl a Rem 03A3, an SC, a SA/Rem 8620, a long CC, and a long B&S, with the Clymer "no-go" gauge and found that, except for the new Rem 03A3 bolt, none of these would close much past the fully open/vertical position of the bolt handle-which is surprising. Except for the new Rem 03A3 bolt, none of these would close fully on a GI "go" gauge either.

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=33922
     
  22. Oldschool shooter

    Oldschool shooter Member

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