The M1 Garand Rifle - Why Is It, "Heavy"?

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briansmithwins said:
The MAG was around and in development before 1957, Ordnance chose not to include it in the testing or buried any favorable results, as they were prone to do.

"The MAG's development was complete by 1957, and it was adopted by the Belgian military in 1958" from: http://www.military-today.com/firearms/fn_mag.htm

I know the Army was starved of funds in between the wars, but Ordnance didn't seem to see the need for improved weapons besides the Garand and the carbine, so there was nothing ready for production when during the run up to WWII or after it started.

BSW
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The first time the US Army tested the MAG-58 was 1974.

And, seeing as the MAG-58 was designed to use the M13 link, which was developed for the T52 and T161, and not finalized until just before the M60's adoption, shows the MAG could not be as mature the M60 by 1957.

By the time the MAG was available for testing was after the M60 was a done deal. Further, the lightweight machine gun was not a competitive program. The specifications were given to Springfield and they were told to design and develop something to meet those requirements. The same was true of the new tank co-axial (M73) and new cupola heavy machine gun (M85).

Besides the requirement for the new US Lt Wt MG was that it be 20% lighter and shorter than the M1919A6, neither of which the MAG-58 meets.
 
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And if you run out the door, and cant go back, and have to make do with what you have, from then on.......?

Reality sucks when you run into it and the nostalgia falls apart. :thumbup:
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
I would love to answer that question, but Im too busy trying to tell my Chinese smartphone to order me a $27 soy latte from Starbucks and have a Doordash driver wearing 3 masks deliver it to the basement where Im hiding from The Virus until my benevolent overlords tell me its safe to go outside. Thank goodness I have the Internet to keep me informed and entertained with funny cat memes and hip-hop artists grinding on each other at awards shows. I would read a book, but I burned them because the man on the moving picture box told me they were bad.
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yea that about sums it up. To think, 1/2 the country thinks and "knows" YOUR the problem.
Robert Aaron Long (the massage parlor shooter) is being toted by at least one news agency as a Trump inspired anti-Asian freak scared of Covid. Most media outlets and many politicians are screaming for "hate-crime" charges.... So what? They give him an extra double secret probation lethal injection?
 
Garandimal said:
2. Clips ~ $2/ea. by the 25/box. ($50/200 rds.)
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Garandimal said:
Appropriate ammo and mags/clips - are necessary for Any assault or battle rifle.
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So, $2.00 gets a holder for 8 rounds.

24 rounds of ammunition requires 3 clips, which would cost $6.00. 32 rounds of ammunition requires 4 clips, which would cost $8.00.

Still about half the cost of a 30 round 5.56mm AR magazine, and about 1/3 less than a 20 round .308 AR magazine
 
lysanderxiii said:
So, $2.00 gets a holder for 8 rounds.

24 rounds of ammunition requires 3 clips, which would cost $6.00. 32 rounds of ammunition requires 4 clips, which would cost $8.00.

Still about half the cost of a 30 round 5.56mm AR magazine, and about 1/3 less than a 20 round .308 AR magazine
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Not to mention the weight and complexity.

You could drive a tank over an En-bloc clip and reuse it.


Got most of mine (Gov't Contract AEC 3/CMP 3) by the 25/box from the CMP, for ~ $0.80/pop.

Ole timers got'em for b/t a Nickel and $0.25/ea. USGI clips, by the bucket-full.

:D




GR
 
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Wow, you guys had to pay for your clips? Most of mine came with USGI ammo already in them, and most of that was free issue if you shot the matches. :)
 
lysanderxiii said:
So, $2.00 gets a holder for 8 rounds.

24 rounds of ammunition requires 3 clips, which would cost $6.00. 32 rounds of ammunition requires 4 clips, which would cost $8.00.

Still about half the cost of a 30 round 5.56mm AR magazine, and about 1/3 less than a 20 round .308 AR magazine
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Up until recently, good AR mags were dirt cheap when bought in bulk. PSA was giving the away with ammo and gun deals on a regular basis. Still a better deal than the clips, and easier to retain.
 
Garandimal said:
It's 30-06.

Walmart has it.

And after 152 rounds, not countin' what's in the pack...?

I'll risk it.

:D




GR
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Oh great, you just informed W-MART that they are still selling ammo for "weapons of war." They are probably yanking it off the shelves right now, way to go, Poindexter!

Just kidding, I havent been in a Walmart since last March. Between their cheap Chinese goods, employment of illegal aliens, disregard for American rights and ideals (i.e. ammo restrictions), and their behavior during the pandemic, I will never step foot in one again. I havent the foggiest idea what kind of ammo one might find there these days.
 
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I never cared for the M16, from the A1 I carried to the various iterations that are finally being replaced by a rifle that is hopefully a ' better 'deal. The Dean Rusk plastic rifle that lots of guys fawn over wasnt superior, particularly hard hitting or all that easy to shoot for someone who had fired other rifles previously. It was cheap and was envisioned to embody the peculiarities of the defense department of the time. The US RIFLE .30 CAL M1 was the pinnacle of rifle design and carried on, for decades not requiring upgrades to make sure it would work or retooling the ammunition to address shortcomings found with it.
It is indeed a rifle, built for a combative role and served that function very well. They are fairly heavy quite powerful and easy to use, best sights around and are still going strong. When you go to the range, how many original slick side ARs do you see? Or A1s for that matter?
I hunt with mine, goes in the truck and it's my grab and go. I do have a M4 ish AR, not because I like them, just because some communist politicians said they didnt want me to own one. It goes bang, but never with the authority of an M1
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Oh great, you just informed W-MART that they are still selling ammo for "weapons of war." They are probably yanking it off the shelves right now, way to go, Poindexter!

Just kidding, I havent been in a Walmart since March. Between their cheap Chinese goods, employment of illegal aliens, disregard for American rights and ideals (i.e. ammo restrictions), and their behavior during the pandemic, I will never step foot in one again. I havent the foggiest idea what kind of ammo one might find there these days.
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About the same as anywhere else, little to none.

Quick look at Ammo seek and 30-06 is about $2 a round. Not the best time to buy, anything.
 
Garandimal said:
Didn't go that route, pop.

Went through the CMP startin' ~ 2011... when the MilSurp ammo was HXP.

... w/ French (SF) Merd clips.

$100 worth of $0.80/ea. clips up a lot of ammo.




GR
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I've been shooting them a bit longer. Got my first DCM gun back in the early 80's for about $160. And that wasn't my first M1 :)
 
Risky buisness said:
I never cared for the M16, from the A1 I carried to the various iterations that are finally being replaced by a rifle that is hopefully a ' better 'deal. The Dean Rusk plastic rifle that lots of guys fawn over wasnt superior, particularly hard hitting or all that easy to shoot for someone who had fired other rifles previously. It was cheap and was envisioned to embody the peculiarities of the defense department of the time. The US RIFLE .30 CAL M1 was the pinnacle of rifle design and carried on, for decades not requiring upgrades to make sure it would work or retooling the ammunition to address shortcomings found with it.
It is indeed a rifle, built for a combative role and served that function very well. They are fairly heavy quite powerful and easy to use, best sights around and are still going strong. When you go to the range, how many original slick side ARs do you see? Or A1s for that matter?
I hunt with mine, goes in the truck and it's my grab and go. I do have a M4 ish AR, not because I like them, just because some communist politicians said they didnt want me to own one. It goes bang, but never with the authority of an M1
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The "Ping!" of Constitutional Liberty.

:D




GR
 
Garandimal said:
Before the Democrat National Socialist Plandemic and Coup...?

Factory fresh PPU M2 ball, in the sealed 500/can, was $280/ea., delivered.

... $0.56/pop.




GR
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Still not cheap.

When I sold off my last M1 about two years ago now, GI ball was going for about $9 a loaded clip. I made out like a bandit too. Had a "few" cans worth. :)
 
I never really understood people that say a 8lb or a 9.5lb rifle is "too heavy." I've never served in the military, but I have carried a hunting rifle an average of 2-3 miles each time I hunt. I have hunted with a 6lb 18" Rem Model 7 and a 8.5lb Rem 700 SPS 308. Both have large scopes, so add about 2 lbs. To be honest, I couldn't tell you I ever noticed any difference carrying them. 2-4lb extra weight, to me, is negligible. I'm not a big guy, 6 ft 0, 170lbs. I am used to carrying 40lb backpacks doing backpacking most of my life. I'm 45 years old and I still can do it.
I get that you can carry a lot more ammo with 5.56 and I would probably choose that route, if headed out to war. But, when I hear people say get the 6.5lb hunting rifle with the pencil barrel, I guess I just don't get it. I'd rather carry a few more pounds, knowing my rifle is as accurate as it can be and easier to hold steady. Well, that's just me. To each their own.
 
BigAlShooter said:
I never really understood people that say a 8lb or a 9.5lb rifle is "too heavy." I've never served in the military, but I have carried a hunting rifle an average of 2-3 miles each time I hunt. I have hunted with a 6lb 18" Rem Model 7 and a 8.5lb Rem 700 SPS 308. Both have large scopes, so add about 2 lbs. To be honest, I couldn't tell you I ever noticed any difference carrying them. 2-4lb extra weight, to me, is negligible. I'm not a big guy, 6 ft 0, 170lbs. I am used to carrying 40lb backpacks doing backpacking most of my life. I'm 45 years old and I still can do it.
I get that you can carry a lot more ammo with 5.56 and I would probably choose that route, if headed out to war. But, when I hear people say get the 6.5lb hunting rifle with the pencil barrel, I guess I just don't get it. I'd rather carry a few more pounds, knowing my rifle is as accurate as it can be and easier to hold steady. Well, that's just me. To each their own.
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It's about comfort, and image over substance.

Bred from mocha lattes and computer mice.

:D




GR
 
BigAlShooter said:
I never really understood people that say a 8lb or a 9.5lb rifle is "too heavy." I've never served in the military, but I have carried a hunting rifle an average of 2-3 miles each time I hunt. I have hunted with a 6lb 18" Rem Model 7 and a 8.5lb Rem 700 SPS 308. Both have large scopes, so add about 2 lbs. To be honest, I couldn't tell you I ever noticed any difference carrying them. 2-4lb extra weight, to me, is negligible. I'm not a big guy, 6 ft 0, 170lbs. I am used to carrying 40lb backpacks doing backpacking most of my life. I'm 45 years old and I still can do it.
I get that you can carry a lot more ammo with 5.56 and I would probably choose that route, if headed out to war. But, when I hear people say get the 6.5lb hunting rifle with the pencil barrel, I guess I just don't get it. I'd rather carry a few more pounds, knowing my rifle is as accurate as it can be and easier to hold steady. Well, that's just me. To each their own.
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It's because you're not doing 13+ mile ruck marches with 100 lbs of equipment / body armor on in the Georgia heat during the summer in Fort Benning at a pace set by somebody else. Believe me, it makes a difference.


Garandimal said:
It's about comfort, and image over substance.

Bred from mocha lattes and computer mice.

:D




GR
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Said the man over the internet. :rofl:


If you want to advocate using a 100 year old rifle for modern warfare, go for it. The thing is that talk is cheap -- especially online.

If it's the rifle you like that's fine, but I'm warning you it's a lot different from the video games. You're going to be sorely disappointed clearing rooms with a 9.5 lb full sized rifle against someone swinging a 7 lb M4 carbine with an Eotech on it.
 
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