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Garandimal
member
Your obfuscation and hyperbole are unproductive.
Watch the vid.
Hector Cafferata's story - the CQB effectiveness of the M1 Rifle, in the hands of a Rifleman...
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
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The M1 Garand Rifle - Why Is It, "Heavy"?
- Thread starter Garandimal
- Start date
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Your obfuscation and hyperbole are unproductive.
Watch the vid.
Hector Cafferata's story - the CQB effectiveness of the M1 Rifle, in the hands of a Rifleman...
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
marksman13
Member
I’d love to see your explanation as to how my post was obscure, unclear or unintelligent. Let me make it as simple as humanly possible for you. The M1 Garand is completely and totally outclassed by more modern options. I’m sorry that you are stuck in 1942, but the rest of the world has moved on and now uses weapons far superior to the Garand and we have been doing so for decades. The Garand is OBSOLETE as a fighting rifle. Period.
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Garandimal
member
Flintlocks...?
You are obviously convinced.
What about Hector Cafferata...?
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
marksman13
Member
Why do I care about Hector Cafferata? The world’s militaries have proven that the Garand is no longer a valid combat rifle.Flintlocks...?
You are obviously convinced.
What about Hector Cafferata...?
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
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Garandimal
member
Why do you avoid Facts and the Truth?
Hector Cafferata...
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
marksman13
Member
Why do you avoid Facts and the Truth?
Hector Cafferata...
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
Fact: the M1 Garand has been outclassed by countless modern firearms.
Truth: the M1 Garand is no longer in service with any advanced military as a combat rifle. It has been relegated to ceremonial use in very few militaries.
Maybe I’m not the one hiding from facts and truth.
marksman13
Member
Why do you avoid Facts and the Truth?
Hector Cafferata...
... time stamp 20:30.
GR
Also, I watched your silly video. Your shining example of CQB superiority comes from the 1950s...
You are right. How could I possibly argue against the M1 Garand and an effective, modern tool for today’s battlefields after learning of such a recent example of the Garand’s superiority?
chicharrones
needs more ammo
We really need some Manny Mansfield in this thread.
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Garandimal
member
The M1 rifle - is a battle rifle.
In the hands of a rifleman, it will provide effective and sustained .30 Cal. fire out to 500 yards.
... as well as CQB.
Hector Cafferata...
... time stamp 20:30.
(don't be afraid of Facts and the Truth)
And, w/ M2 AP - It also turns cover into concealment.
GR
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Garandimal
member
briansmithwins
Member
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- 4,631
If I have to choose between house clearing with a Garand, a k98k, a SMLE, or a Arisaka, I’ll take the Garand every time.
Multiple studies have shown that targets in combat are fleeting rand under 300m. The Garand is a quantum leap better than a bolt action in combat, but assault rifles are even better.
BSW
marksman13
Member
The M1 rifle - is a battle rifle.
In the hands of a rifleman, it will provide effective and sustained .30 Cal. fire out to 500 yards.
... as well as CQB.
Hector Cafferata...
... time stamp 20:30.
(don't be afraid of Facts and the Truth)
And, w/ M2 AP - It also turns cover into concealment.
Yes. The Garand will provide sustained and semi-effective .30 cal fire out to 500 yards for 8 while rounds...
Honestly can’t believe anybody would choose something like the LR308 which provides truly sustained, accurate and effective .30 cal fire out to 600+ yards with modern optics. Those silly 25 round magazines pale in comparison to the Garand’s mighty 8 rounds and a ping. All warriors should bow before the throne of the almighty M1 Garand in the temple of the 30-06. How have we all been so blind to it’s excellence. God forgive us for trying to improve upon its effectiveness.
GR
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Garandimal
member
You have obviously missed some of the more sentient points of this argument:
1. The 8-round clip - is a reloading device, that takes 3-5 seconds to accomplish.
2. The CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle - is $750 delivered, and comes with many lifetimes worth of service life.
3. A battle rifle may not be optimum for CQB - but an assault rifle sucks at rifle range interdiction.
Ole School.
GR
I'm sure all the people killed by either rifle are extremely worried about what some boomer on a dying rifle forum is calling it.
Have you ever actually had somebody shoot at you before? Just curious.
I'm not interested in debating this imaginary rural home defense scenario that's not "military combat." That said, I'm telling you from experience only having 8 rounds before you have to reload is going to put you at a significant disadvantage. Anyone saying otherwise is simply talking nonsense.
This is basically the whole thread.
I think a major point that's being left out is that Garandimal obviously had a lot of training with that weapon and, you know what? That's probably the weapon he's the most lethal with. If something crazy happened, the weapon you know is the weapon you're the most lethal with. If you think it's ideal for you and what you want to do with it, that's legit. I can stand behind that and I'd happily fight beside you in an alien invasion or whatever fantastic scenarios we're dreaming up there in the comfort of our homes.
That said, coming out and saying other modern weapons are inferior to it is definitely a tough sale. Moreover, arguing that soldiers (who are now carrying way more stuff than they did in the 1940s) aren't "man enough" to hump that rifle on top of the 100+lbs of equipment we already have to carry is quite frankly asinine. What many people forget is, after that march, you still have to have enough energy to fight! Combat is exhausting.
I want you to like the rifle you like, but there's a lot of points you simply haven't responded to in this conversation yet. Posting up youtube videos of some nerd in an air conditioned gun range who probably has never done a ruck march in his life doing clip changes really fast is not proving anything.
Not commonly known but, under stress, fine motor skills are the first things to go. That's one of the reasons the M16 magazine is such a hit. They just pop in -- easier than an AK, Ruger Mini, CETME, or virtually any older rifle. It takes gross motor skills to employ. Fumbling with clips went out with the SKS (which still held more than your M1 did).
M1 Garand is a great rifle but you're driving a really hard bargain here attempting to argue that it's vastly superior to all over modern weapons and those of us who don't agree are just not as macho as you or whatever. I don't buy it.
Again, this is one of the reasons I do not and have never understood this forum. Maybe it's just not the place for me and I should just stop posting..
The dude has the right to give an unpopular opinion. That's not trolling. It's not like he's here trying to convince us to "ban all guns" or something. He just thinks the M1 is a vastly superior rifle. I don't agree with him but I don't think that means shut down the thread or prevent him from speaking.
Personally I've learned more about the M1 watching this issue debated over the last 24 hours than I have actually shooting for most of my life -- including you could get a quality one for $750. If we would have let the mods come in and shut grandpa down because someone's feelings might have got hurt in the process of him explaining his opinion, I wouldn't have learned that.
That said, I think promoting responsible firearms ownership and having knowledgeable people is what Oleg created this forum for.
I just don't get the whole rush everyone has to shut something down as soon as it becomes controversial. Let the man speak. Even if we don't agree. We might actually learn something and find out we were maybe even wrong.
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marksman13
Member
3-5 seconds is a life time when someone is shooting at you, especially when you could be shooting back if you weren’t limiting yourself to a pathetic 8 round capacity.
$750 buys a decent AR-15 which would be preferable to the M1 Garand by most metrics.
You brought up CQB effectiveness, not me. The LR308 bests the M1 Garand in both categories though, so it’s a moot point,
Dale Alan
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- 865
Thank you , exactly my thoughts .
AK103K
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I don't think that's the case. He himself admitted, he only got one about 10 years ago. Dont know of any trainers pushing the M1 as the rifle of choice. About the only place you might really learn to shoot one these days would be the military or high power matches. And if you want to get down to it, even at most of the matches, the M1 and M14/M1A were replaced quite a while ago by the AR's.
Seems like this goes on every time one of these threads comes up. Just wait til he figures out the M14 was what surpassed it and he gets an M1A.
Trolling is not having an unpopular opinion.
Trolling is not saying something you disagree with.
Debating the virtues of different rifles for an evolving battlefield is "chest thumping."
From what I've read in this whole thread, the only irrelevant post was yours and the mod who clearly didn't read what people were discussing.
If you want to have a real discourse, you have to risk hearing something you might not like. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but I find it ironic how much bellyaching goes on about "cancel-culture" in the 2A community only to see it welcomed with open arms in something as low-stakes as an internet web forum.
If the mod shut this thread down earlier, I (and I guarantee you the guests lurking this thread) probably wouldn't have learned half the stuff about the M1 (or other weapons posted ) this guy posted. There's literally a wealth of information in just a few of the first videos he linked to. I don't agree with his point but what good does shutting down the thread do? Are you afraid someone is going to get so offended by hearing the M1 is superior that they'll destroy the site? Let the freaking guy say his peace.
Sorry if you don't like that, but that's how discourse works.
Maybe THR wants a bunch of people sitting around all patting themselves on the back. Like I said, maybe it's just not the forum for me, but acting as if this thread has had no value or that nobody who is participating is contributing is just plain silly.
Dale Alan
member
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- 865
I get it, you just like to argue . I like a more polite intelligent conversation .
I'm sorry you didn't read all the comments before posting then.
I don't think that's the case. He himself admitted, he only got one about 10 years ago. Dont know of any trainers pushing the M1 as the rifle of choice. About the only place you might really learn to shoot one these days would be the military or high power matches. And if you want to get down to it, even at most of the matches, the M1 and M14/M1A were replaced quite a while ago by the AR's.
Seems like this goes on every time one of these threads comes up. Just wait til he figures out the M14 was what surpassed it and he gets an M1A.
I don't know about you but 10 years is a long time to train with a rifle.
You literally just came into this thread to say everyone who contributed to this conversation said nothing of value or is just trolling. Now you're saying you prefer polite intelligent conversation.
No offense but there's a big difference between "liking to argue" and "liking to learn." If you don't see a difference then I don't think it means everyone here having this conversation is dumb but you or whatever your point is.
Let's keep this about the M1 and not your feelings please..
THAT SAID, In my experience, the M1 actually has superior range to modern weapons like the AR. Someone mentioned they had better groups with the AR up past 500 yards, but I'm curious balletically how they both perform at that difference.
It's been a while since I've been tested, but I think that's "area target" range for an AR.
AK103K
member
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All depends on what you call "training" too.
A lot of people seem to think that what you do shooting off a bench is an indication of your skills.
10 years of solid weekly shooting, and competing every month, yea, I would hope you learned something.
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