A carry revolver for the future

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pairof44sp

pairof44sp

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The revolver I envision:

- 1/4” shorter.

the useless extra 1/4 - 1/2 inch that’s baked into the frames, the cylinders, and sometimes the ammo of carry revolvers would finally get eliminated.

upload_2021-4-29_13-26-17.jpeg
please photoshop away 1/4” of cylinder and frame in your mind


327 Fed mag ammo has extra length baked into the design for safety sake. Eliminate this!

And all the frames are borrowed from other guns, so there is useless extra length in the cylinder area. Eliminate this!


- hi-cap cylinders with lo-pro calibers

7 and 8 rounds of .3125 caliber ammo in a small cylinder is totally feasible. The Smith 632 holds 6 rounds of 327, and the cylinder is thinner than a 5-shot 38 special cylinder.

Make a low-profile, 7 or 8 shot 32 caliber carry revolver from scratch, in high volume, now, someone, darnit!

Call it the “Thirty-two Personal”
 
Taurus made a really good-looking hammerless call the CIA.
Very similar to your S&W.
?.
?........i know.....Im not a huge Taurus fan either although I have owned a few.
If i EVER cross paths with the CIA model 5-shot hammerless. 38, i will own it.
 
pairof44sp said:
The revolver I envision:

- 1/4” shorter.

the useless extra 1/4 - 1/2 inch that’s baked into the frames, the cylinders, and sometimes the ammo of carry revolvers would finally get eliminated.

View attachment 995423
please photoshop away 1/4” of cylinder and frame in your mind


327 Fed mag ammo has extra length baked into the design for safety sake. Eliminate this!

And all the frames are borrowed from other guns, so there is useless extra length in the cylinder area. Eliminate this!


- hi-cap cylinders with lo-pro calibers

7 and 8 rounds of .3125 caliber ammo in a small cylinder is totally feasible. The Smith 632 holds 6 rounds of 327, and the cylinder is thinner than a 5-shot 38 special cylinder.

Make a low-profile, 7 or 8 shot 32 caliber carry revolver from scratch, in high volume, now, someone, darnit!

Call it the “Thirty-two Personal”
Click to expand...

Ask Taurus? They already have a short cylinder .380 revolver.
https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/taurus-380
 
In the future, there may be some of 32 type ammo available again. I'm hording my stock!
 
I've wondered why they don't move the grip and trigger forward, and also have the barrel off to the left or right one cylinder to lower it down a touch and ease recoil. Might look odd, but - think it would work better. might be too complicated, and the frame would have to be different
 
film495 said:
(1)I've wondered why they don't move the grip and trigger forward, and (2)also have the barrel off to the left or right one cylinder(chamber?) to lower it down a touch and ease recoil. Might look odd, but - think it would work better. might be too complicated, and the frame would have to be different
Click to expand...

(1) That could get a finger in line with the blast from the cylinder gap. Then the gun would need a blast shield set up like currently made revolver carbines have.

(2) Having an offset barrel would be akin to firing a SxS shotgun with one barrel lopped off. Which means the sight line wouldn't be down the center of the gun. Not to mention recoil not being inline with the hand, which might create some interesting recoil induced point of aim/point of impact issues.

I think. :D
 
Yeah. I think a carry revolver designed from scratch in something like 32 H&R or 327 would be nice.

It could be considerably smaller than a 38 j-frame, or hold more shots... maybe even both.

I have revolvers in both calibers. I consider them reasonable for SD with good ammo.

I'm surprised that smaller 32 magnum revolvers like the LCR and Undercoverette aren't more popular.

It's a viable option for someone with hand or wrist or recoil issues.
 
There were revolver similar to the OP desire were called I-frames or Terriers. Same size as a J-frame but roughly 1/4 shorter than the modern J-frame, designed for 5-shots of 38 S&W or 6-shots of 32 S&W Long. I would love to see the I-frame come back and chamber it in 5-shots of 9mm or 38 Super on moonclips. If you did 9mm you could probably shorted the frame another 1/8" to 1/4" and still have room to spare.

357 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt have sort of driven the modern cylinder/frame length and they just stuff other cartridges into those basic cylinder/frame sizes. Unfortunately there is unlikely to be enough demand for revolvers in other calibers to have frames specifically made to accommodate their size.
 
I agree that producing 32s in frames designed for other calibers is a sad situation.

The other part of the "problem" is really the 32 H&R. The factory pressure rating was just too low. On the other hand, the 327 is rated higher than actually needed & this causes all the excess noise / blast issues that turn people away from the gun.

The 32 H&R length round in a compact (not snub) DA rated for 30,000 psi would have be a "sweet spot" gun. It would not have had any issues with people bashing it for "not enough power" and at the same time folks would have found it to be much more pleasant to shoot with factory ammo than the 327.

I normally load my 327 closer to 25,000 psi and like this power level.
 
pairof44sp said:
the useless extra 1/4 - 1/2 inch that’s baked into the frames, the cylinders, and sometimes the ammo of carry revolvers would finally get eliminated.
Click to expand...

The "Freebore Effect"

It was apparent that these bullets achieved significant velocity before losing gas at the barrel/cylinder gap and hitting the rifling. The same bullets fired in a semiauto will encounter the resistance of the rifling before they are fully out of the cartridge case and have to make up velocity farther down the bore. It looked like we had an answer. Long throats plus short cartridges mean some revolvers achieve parity with semiauto velocities through a “freebore effect.”
Click to expand...

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/revolver-vs-semiautomatic-pistol-a-ballistic-oddity/360682

The S&W 929 has the shortened cylinder for the 9mm cartridge and is geared toward competitors. They could have designed a frame specifically around the 9mm cartridge, but they didn't. So given that, if there were an advantage to having a longer cylinder fill the window they would have done it. I can only assume that having the barrel come back through the window to meet the cylinder yields better performance. But, even if bullets are traversing some free-bore in the cylinder, its not entirely wasted.
 
A .32 S&W Long +P+ in a 7 shot revolver not much bigger than a Model 31 would be sweet. However, no ammo manufacturer is going to make that round since some ninny will be sure to try them out in an old top-break.
 
film495 said:
I've wondered why they don't move the grip and trigger forward, and also have the barrel off to the left or right one cylinder to lower it down a touch and ease recoil. Might look odd, but - think it would work better. might be too complicated, and the frame would have to be different
Click to expand...
That’s original. Wouldn’t it twist the gun around to the left or right
 
C0untZer0 said:
The "Freebore Effect"



https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/revolver-vs-semiautomatic-pistol-a-ballistic-oddity/360682

The S&W 929 has the shortened cylinder for the 9mm cartridge and is geared toward competitors. They could have designed a frame specifically around the 9mm cartridge, but they didn't. So given that, if there were an advantage to having a longer cylinder fill the window they would have done it. I can only assume that having the barrel come back through the window to meet the cylinder yields better performance. But, even if bullets are traversing some free-bore in the cylinder, its not entirely wasted.
Click to expand...

My idea is shorter cylinder AND shorter frame. You’d shave a lot of metal off of the design, and you would have same effective barrel length in a shorter gun. You could AIWB it and still sit down.
 
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One of the more difficult & time consuming processes in revolver manufacturing is hogging out the hole for the window. Making round holes through steel & aluminum is fairly easy, but not so much when it comes to rectangular openings. It wouldn't be profitable for S&W to have 2 different sized forgings of J frames with different sized openings. The current J frame I the J magnum frame. J frames from the 50's through about 1986 were slightly smaller. They were enlarged to accommodate 357 magums
 
Dig out the Improved I frame (or Police Positive) plans and chamber in one of the 8mms, too large to get in an old .32 but skinny enough for a small frame sixshooter. Maybe 8mm Mle 1892 +P.
 
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