Scope upgrade already!

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kmw1954

kmw1954

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Since you folks did such a wonderful job on helping me with the last one figured I should ask about the next one!

The Scope I bought last Dec is a Burris Fullfield E1 4.5-14X24 model 200338 with the Ballistic Plex reticle. I really like this scope and love the reticle.

Though now that I've been shooting more and at longer distances the 14 power is leaving me wanting at 200yd targets and even more so when out to 300yds which right now is about the max that I have access to.

Now I am trying to decide between a new Burris 6.5-20X50 E1 model 200341 and the Burris 6-24X50 model 200495.. Again I just like these reticles as they are clean and uncluttered. Also the price on the 6-24 is about at my upper budget limit at this time, $399.00 while I can find the 6.5-20 for $270.00
 
I think you're going about this wrong. People shoot at 1000 yards with 10X scopes. If 14X isn't enough at 200-300 yards you're either doing something wrong or the scopes quality is poor. You don't need more X's, you need more quality and when you get above 10X quality really matters. And with quality price goes up.

Right now, everything I'd normally recommend is either out of stock everywhere, or out of production. I think you need to up the budget to $500-$600 and keep the max magnification closer to 10X, maybe 12X. Or go with a fixed power. If the scope is clear, if the reticle is fine, and if the adjustments are precise you're good to at least 600 yards. I've shot MOA at 600 yards with a fixed 6X scope.

This is the closest thing I can find that is actually available. These are highly thought of as an entry level tactical scope.

Buy SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescopes at SWFA.com - SWFA Outdoors

They make this in fixed 6X, 10X, 12X, 16X and 20X. They also make a very similar one in 3-9X42, but it is $600. Between myself and several friends we have 5-6 of these. The 6X and 10X is the sweet spot. As you go up in magnification over 10X the quality of the view diminishes. I've shot a friends 20X and it isn't nearly as good as the 6X or 10X versions. The 3-9X42 is good too, but not available and over budget.

They are available in Mil quad and MOA. I like Mils better, but it isn't a huge difference. The one in the link above is Mil quad
 
Unless you have a top tear scope all you will do with more power is just zoom in on more imperfections in the glass, the Burris are great for the money but there's a reason good scopes are pricey.

I agree with jmr40 the swfa ss are great for the money, good glass. You get a better scope since its fixed power and there's no middle man making his cut on the price. There tuff as a brick outhouse, liked the ones I've used I still have my 10s mil/mil and think the 10 is the best of the other powers.

If you expect to see bullet holes in paper like your 2 feet away, don't that's what spotting scopes are for.
 
Being all new to this I cannot argue with either of you but only ask the next question of What size are those targets they are shooting at with a 10 magnification scope? Are they 1" Dots? I don't know . All I can go by is what I am being told and what I am seeing the others in this league are using. Yes much of what they are targeting are 1" or 2" dots at 300yds. At 300yds I basically cannot see a 1" dot with my scope because it is covered by the reticle and if you are familiar or look at the reticle on the Burris scope I am using it is pretty fine.
 
jmr40 said:
I think you're going about this wrong. People shoot at 1000 yards with 10X scopes. If 14X isn't enough at 200-300 yards you're either doing something wrong or the scopes quality is poor. You don't need more X's, you need more quality and when you get above 10X quality really matters. And with quality price goes up.

Right now, everything I'd normally recommend is either out of stock everywhere, or out of production. I think you need to up the budget to $500-$600 and keep the max magnification closer to 10X, maybe 12X. Or go with a fixed power. If the scope is clear, if the reticle is fine, and if the adjustments are precise you're good to at least 600 yards. I've shot MOA at 600 yards with a fixed 6X scope.

This is the closest thing I can find that is actually available. These are highly thought of as an entry level tactical scope.

Buy SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescopes at SWFA.com - SWFA Outdoors

They make this in fixed 6X, 10X, 12X, 16X and 20X. They also make a very similar one in 3-9X42, but it is $600. Between myself and several friends we have 5-6 of these. The 6X and 10X is the sweet spot. As you go up in magnification over 10X the quality of the view diminishes. I've shot a friends 20X and it isn't nearly as good as the 6X or 10X versions. The 3-9X42 is good too, but not available and over budget.

They are available in Mil quad and MOA. I like Mils better, but it isn't a huge difference. The one in the link above is Mil quad
Click to expand...


^^ this
 
kmw1954 said:
Being all new to this I cannot argue with either of you but only ask the next question of What size are those targets they are shooting at with a 10 magnification scope? Are they 1" Dots? I don't know . All I can go by is what I am being told and what I am seeing the others in this league are using. Yes much of what they are targeting are 1" or 2" dots at 300yds. At 300yds I basically cannot see a 1" dot with my scope because it is covered by the reticle and if you are familiar or look at the reticle on the Burris scope I am using it is pretty fine.
Click to expand...
You answered your own question, hard to hit what you can't see . You need more magnification with a finer cross hair or dot that is smaller than what you are aiming at . Don't overthink it , buy what you can afford at the moment . If you get a chance look through a quality benchrest scope and you will be amazed at how fine hairs/dots can be . Your shooting will go into a whole different world with a fine reticle . I have the Burris scopes, nice reticles but not as fine a hair as you may think . Just my experience . Good luck .
 
I have experience with these scopes , fine dot/crosshair . They are big and heavy , solid built rig . Good cheap power , I use one in factory class 200 yard score competition and do fine with it.

upload_2021-5-13_9-15-54.png
 
Always and forever purpose dictates need. Any of the above answers could be correct, and parts of both are universal; quality improves what you can see as can more x’s. I shoot decent groups to 200 yards with no-frills scopes but they would be laughable to the BR crowd.
 
My most powerful scope has max magnification of 10X. At 300 yards it is easier to see the target with than any scope it’s been compared to with double the magnification, the caveat being the higher magnification scopes cost approximately the same or less. I’m a firm believer that to get a good high magnification scope you will pay for it.
 
cdb1 said:
My most powerful scope has max magnification of 10X. At 300 yards it is easier to see the target with than any scope it’s been compared to with double the magnification, the caveat being the higher magnification scopes cost approximately the same or less. I’m a firm believer that to get a good high magnification scope you will pay for it.
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What is this magical scope you speak of ?
 
@kmw1954 ....

Good luck with your search . I bet when you started this thread you had no idea that more magnification is a bad thing at distance? ;) You are getting nothing but sarcasm and bad info . Buy all the good magnification you can afford ,
 
Dale Alan said:
@kmw1954 ....

Good luck with your search . I bet when you started this thread you had no idea that more magnification is a bad thing at distance?
Buy all the good magnification you can afford ,
Click to expand...

Well I have to admit the responses here are much different than the responses and scope examples I am seeing and hearing at the range from I guess are considered Short Range (under500yds) Bench shooters. That again are shooting at 1" targets at 300yds for score. Close don't count! And a gain how do you hit what you cannot see?

So far I see no one has responded to my question of what size targets are these folks shootin at 1k yards?
 
I'm a firm believer in matching the scope to the purpose.

My close in Deer rifle wears a 1.5 X 5 and my open country Deer rifle wears a 3.5 X 10.

My Varmint rifles wear 3.5 X 15's and 6.5 X 22's.

My Benchrest rifle wears a 10 X 60.

Usually an increase in power reduces the fire of view. They also magnify any wiggles and are harder to shoot offhand. I can see my heart beat in my 10 X 60.

An example of field of view: I can see all 36 target frames at 600 yards with my 3.5 X 10 hunting scope while I can only see one 60 inch target frame with my 10 X 60.

I think either of the scopes that you are looking at will serve you well. If you're happy with your other Burris I see no reason to buy another. Good Luck with your choice.
 
kmw1954 said:
Being all new to this I cannot argue with either of you but only ask the next question of What size are those targets they are shooting at with a 10 magnification scope? Are they 1" Dots? I don't know . All I can go by is what I am being told and what I am seeing the others in this league are using. Yes much of what they are targeting are 1" or 2" dots at 300yds. At 300yds I basically cannot see a 1" dot with my scope because it is covered by the reticle and if you are familiar or look at the reticle on the Burris scope I am using it is pretty fine.
Click to expand...
While I have competed with a 10x at 600 i was definitely the underdog, my favorite budget scope is Sightron.. A 6-24x50 is a great scope as well as a 8-32x56 moa2 reticle. A bit more saving is required but definitely worth the money.
 
Dale Alan said:
What is this magical scope you speak of ?
Click to expand...
Meopta MeoPro

Nothing magical. As a rule if you take two scopes that cost the same amount, and one has max magnification of 10X and the other 20X, the 10X scope will have better quality glass.


Dale Alan said:
Buy all the good magnification you can afford ,
Click to expand...
I agree, the key being good magnification. There is a price to be paid for good high magnification though.
 
Don't mind the naysayers. I just bought a 6-24x50 FFP scope to put on a .22LR. Magnification and reticle style are dictated by your application. The one thing that is universal is that better glass costs more, and the corollary is that magnification doesn't make up for poor quality glass.
 
I have the same Burris Fullfield E1 4.5-14X42 on a 223 rifle. For a 308 project I'm looking at the Burris Fullfield IV 6-24x50 and the Burris RT-25. Can't decide if I want to spend the extra $250 for ffp. I'm punching paper and clanging steel out to 1000yards. Decision, decisions.....
 
Thank you all for the responses from just today, many fine points of view for sure. Now I wish I could multiple quote some responses to your replies.

So I am fully aware and understand that very good glass costs money. But am also aware that there are some much over priced items on the market as well. I have not been educated enough to tell the difference. Which is why we have forums and vendors with feedback. Sure I wish I was in a position to drop $1k on a good scope but I am not. Then again at this point I am not sure I am competent enough yet to even take advantage of such an item! All I know for certain is that what I have is a struggle for what I am trying to accomplish.

Now all is well and good but does nothing to address my original question about the 2 scopes mentioned.

There are many examples of scopes in this price-point of the same or similar configurations. Some may be better some may be worse but I chose these two because the reticle is more to my liking.
While I appreciate jmr40 response and insight all it did was divert from the question which was then followed up by a couple of , "what he said" replies. Did absolutely nothing to address my question. Yet still no one had responded with a 1000 yard target size being shot with a 10X scope. While I have been very specific in that I will be shooting 1" dots at ranges of 100/200/300 yards.

Today I did get a chance to look through a 40X single power Bench Rest Scope and quickly decided that it is way much more scope than I can use.

Which brings me back to my question concerning the two scopes in question. Which to choose. Is there that large of a difference between the two? How much of an improvement would the 6.5-20 be over my 4.5-14? Is there really a $120.00 improvement from the 6.5-20 to the 6-24 or is it just a marginal improvement?

If there were somewhere close by to go and compare the two side by side in-person I would do it.
 
kmw1954 said:
... I have been very specific in that I will be shooting 1" dots at ranges of 100/200/300 yards.
Click to expand...
I am sorry if I have contributed to your frustration. I don't currently own any Burris scopes although I have in the past. If you're set on 1-inch targets, I'd opt for the greater magnification. It sounds like you're challenge is not "hitting" targets, it's "seeing" them.

So I gotta ask: Why limit yourself to 1-inch circles? Why not a 4-inch (or more) circle that you can see, and score based on x ring hits? Not trying to be a jerk here, but given what you describe, I'd change targets before I changed scopes. What are we missing?
 
Legionnaire said:
I am sorry if I have contributed to your frustration.

So I gotta ask: Why limit yourself to 1-inch circles? Why not a 4-inch (or more) circle that you can see, and score based on x ring hits? Not trying to be a jerk here, but given what you describe, I'd change targets before I changed scopes. What are we missing?
Click to expand...

No need to be sorry. The 6-24X50 FFP that I like is almost twice what I can afford ATM.

The targets are set by the league I plan on shooting in. In this case there is an occluded target that has 8 2" dia. targets that are partially covered. Any shot that hits an occlusion is scored as a deduction. Another target is diminishing circles, 8" down to 1".. Now for next year they are adding a target to be shot from the weak side! Anyways each week is a different set of targets. Also for next season they are not allowing any shots from a front rest, all must be taken from a bi-pod.
 
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