Virginian
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Intensely dislike.
"Shockwave" style guns = love or hate?
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Kevin Keith
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From the Mossberg 590 Shockwave Owner's Manual, page 21:
Upon firing, recoil force will cause the firearm to move rearward and upward. Never hold the firearm at eye level and attempt to sight down the barrel. To avoid possible injury, firmly grip the forearm with fingers inside the fabric strap and one hand on the Raptor Grip. Raptor Grip models are designed to be held at waist level when firing.
Upon firing, recoil force will cause the firearm to move rearward and upward. Never hold the firearm at eye level and attempt to sight down the barrel. To avoid possible injury, firmly grip the forearm with fingers inside the fabric strap and one hand on the Raptor Grip. Raptor Grip models are designed to be held at waist level when firing.
back in my college days a bud and I shot many rounds through our pistol grip shotties... we could hit snowballs thrown in the air holding them one handed 
but we are both big guys... mr remington and mr mossberg we called em... I got a shockwave and have not shot it,or much of anything else for a while now. I did brace mine but have not shot it since. If the atf makes it NFA I will add the real stock for the 200.00 A friend has a 14" mossberg that works real well. I like em but like golf clubs different configurations have different uses. and not all of us had only one gun before the boating accident....
but we are both big guys... mr remington and mr mossberg we called em... I got a shockwave and have not shot it,or much of anything else for a while now. I did brace mine but have not shot it since. If the atf makes it NFA I will add the real stock for the 200.00 A friend has a 14" mossberg that works real well. I like em but like golf clubs different configurations have different uses. and not all of us had only one gun before the boating accident....
trackskippy
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It seems there is some misunderstanding as to how you hold them at eye level. You dont hold it like it was stocked with a cheek weld. Do that, and you are asking for trouble. The gun is held out forward "at" eye level.
At the closer, more reactive ranges, I prefer the mid-center chest hold, with the arms held tight to the body. You aim with your body/shoulders and dont point the gun with your arms. Its a natural pointing stance and its also basically a ready position all in one. Youre basically shooting from ready. Its a bit old school, think Rex Applegate era, but it works very well and its a very natural way to shoot and with good results.
At the closer, more reactive ranges, I prefer the mid-center chest hold, with the arms held tight to the body. You aim with your body/shoulders and dont point the gun with your arms. Its a natural pointing stance and its also basically a ready position all in one. Youre basically shooting from ready. Its a bit old school, think Rex Applegate era, but it works very well and its a very natural way to shoot and with good results.
lemaymiami
Member
Have no use for them. For my purposes, a standard short barreled shotgun is for serious work only. If my opponent is armed with a Shockwave or something similar ( a short barreled shotgun with a pistol grip), he (or she) has handicapped themselves in my opinion... That opinion was formed over many years of street work where I always chose a basic riot gun - if at all possible - and prayed I wouldn't need it.
As you can guess, I find little entertainment value in firearms, period.
As you can guess, I find little entertainment value in firearms, period.
trackskippy
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Sucks to be you.
And the Mossberg manual is totally wrong and goes against everything I was taught by all the different trainers that train both federal agents and the military. The only reason Mossberg put that in the manual is to cover their A from liability lawsuits. Again the proper way to shoot these is at eye level and at arms length using the push/pull method, especially if you really want to hit what you are shooting at.
mcb
Member
They are amusing but not amusing or useful enough to actually spend money on them. Now a Remington Tac-13 (pre-RemArms) with a short stock and a my interests would increase dramatically, if not for the required NFA stamp the the trouble crossing state lines.
Kevin Keith
Member
I agree to disagree with you then! That's THR Way!
entropy
Member
Lawyer language.
They make brace kits for the Raptor-gripped firearm version of them.......
Kevin Keith
Member
No way that is Lawyer Language...it's too clear!
lemaymiami
Member
Trackskippy… if you ever see newspaper articles calling you a murderer - it’s not something you’re likely to forget. Since I was also the subject of a civil rights investigation by the FBI (routine down here in South Florida during the cocaine cowboy years) it’s something else you’re not likely to ever forget…
As my Dad used to say “Kid, I know more about that than I ever wanted to know…”. For me a firearm is a necessary tool, nothing more. That’s not how I felt as a kid - but that was a long, long time ago.
As my Dad used to say “Kid, I know more about that than I ever wanted to know…”. For me a firearm is a necessary tool, nothing more. That’s not how I felt as a kid - but that was a long, long time ago.
entropy
Member
OK, you're right, it is much too concise for legalese. It's a CYA statement. Ruger is expert at them, and yes, laywers vett them before they go in the box with the gun or stamped into the side of the barrel...
Kevin Keith
Member
There are probably more than a handful of us here who could say that. I still find huge elements of entertainment and enjoyment as well as the tool thing in my guns. Different strokes, I'd say.
danez71
Member
That's kind of like saying that toyota is wrong saying the 2wd truck isn't meant for off road and countering thats all wrong because per what you learned at Ivan "Ironman" Stewart racing school.
But to your point, it strikes me odd that they say that in the manual then 1) still put a bead sight on it and 2) have this pic with a red dot on it as one of the pics for the SPX model.
trackskippy
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Lots of things are serious, necessary tools, and fun as hell too. Theres a time to be serious, and a time to have fun. Just try not to be too serious, all the time, as it usually screws with you head.
Rubone
Member
I've never paid any attention too them. they are so aesthetically wrong I can't even consider one. Or less diplomatically "they are uglier than a fart in church".
trackskippy
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I think the mistake here, is to think there is only one way to shoot "anything", and theres no difference here with the Shockwaves.
If you only learn to shot something one way, the one way is all you know. It also tends to leave you limited in the skill department.
With the Mossberg, eye level has its uses, as does below eye level methods of shooting them. Being able to do either, letting the situation decide, and without you having to think about doing it, and still making good hits is the whole point. And making good hits is what its all about, no matter how you do it. Isnt it?
If you only learn to shot something one way, the one way is all you know. It also tends to leave you limited in the skill department.
With the Mossberg, eye level has its uses, as does below eye level methods of shooting them. Being able to do either, letting the situation decide, and without you having to think about doing it, and still making good hits is the whole point. And making good hits is what its all about, no matter how you do it. Isnt it?
Styx
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Perhaps those who claim they are useless, are a handicap, are made to be shot from the hip, have to much recoil, etc should watch the almost 70 year old firearm trainer Clint Smith shoot 00 buck and even Hickok45 shoot it in his video the proper way without any issues. Seems to be a lot of experts with little to zero experience who seems to know the most and are the most critical. I Mr Smith, Hickok45, and other well know and respected people in the industry have a lot more expensive both in general and with the actual firearm in question than the naysayers, so I trust their opinion more. Their and other videos on YouTube directly contridict many of the complaints in this thread, but I get that many are set in their ways (traditionalist). Their opinions aren't going to change no matter what evidence is demonstrated and no matter who is demonstrating it. They already made up their minds at first sight. The concesus seems to be: "I don't like the way it looks and it's not what I'm use to, so it's a useless gimmick and a bunch of other things I'm going to assume."
@lemaymiami Seriously? Getting shot with a shotgun round out of a 14" barrel at self defense distances is a handicapped compared to being shot with a 380-45ACP? Have you seen the satistics and survival rate of shooting victims shot with handgun rounds?
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Kevin Keith
Member
In my mind's eye, I see Mossberg inserting one of those *wink, wink* gifs after the "don't hold it up to eye level" statement!
Choctaw
Member
Yes, and by using a pistol grip we are giving away the shoulder support point. I'm pretty sure the Man upstairs gave us shoulders so we could shoot shotguns and rifles properly.
It's all well and good that experts can come up to speed with these. I saw a good number of them going out the door in LGS to folks who seem never to have had a gun. Good for them that they bought a gun, but they would be better served with a standard shotgun or handgun. But if sits on the floor next to the bed, it's something (as long as they don't hit something other than intended).
Mossberg puts that in the owners manual to cover themselves from lawsuits plain and simple. This in case someone holds it up to their face and the fires. Federal agents such the Secret Service and US Marshals have been using similar firearms for a long time and always fire them held up at arms length using the push/pull method. And this is also how I was trained to use them. I'll stick with how I was properly trained to use such a firearm. I love my Shockwave and have absolutely no problems hitting what I aim at.
And these are definitely not a gimmick when used properly. As has been shown with the several videos, the guys that are trainers or use these professionally all use the push/pull method.
And these are definitely not a gimmick when used properly. As has been shown with the several videos, the guys that are trainers or use these professionally all use the push/pull method.
JCooperfan1911
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They're too long to be very interesting.
The 12" barrel, 4+1 Remington 870 Witness Protection models with Pachmayr pistol grip are several inches shorter and a lot cooler.
The 12" barrel, 4+1 Remington 870 Witness Protection models with Pachmayr pistol grip are several inches shorter and a lot cooler.
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