"Legal" Marijuana and Gun Ownership - Lawyer Discussion

God help us if the feds do legalize it.

Bill

I will definitely share this video. I have friends that have their medical card and want to argue with me that they can still possess and also purchase firearms through private sales. And I always tell them that it is still illegal at the federal level to be in possession of both.

I know some pot smokers and all of them are anti gun.

The people who want to take away your legal right have no problem with illegal substances.

While their state may say it’s alright, the Feds still say grass is illegal.

So who’s breaking the law? Bottom line, if you’re using pot you’re lying on the Federal background check form. No loophole there.

I warn people all the time that pot use, even if legal in your state, makes you in violation of Federal law. I definitely wouldn't want to lie on that form.

BCR#1 said:

God help us if the feds do legalize it.

Bill

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Why? God help us from all the drunks with forearms.

For it or against it, there is no reason for marijuana to be listed as schedule 1 drugs with heroin and LSD

The definition of schedule 1 drug has been proven not to apply to cannabis/pot

Schedule I drugs are those that have the following characteristic according to the United States Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA):

• The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
• The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical treatment use in the U.S.
• It has a lack of accepted safety for use under medical supervision.

Alcohol has all the characteristics of the above! So does Nicotine but they are both legal

Yes as the law stands now it is a Federal violation.


I am not condoning the use of ANY drug with firearms,

Our Agriculture Commissioner Nikki Fried, has stated that she has both a CCW and a Medical Marijuana card.

Gee how does she get away with it.??

Florida has had Medical Marijuana use for a while. As it is Medical is is under HIPPA so the user can not be reported to the the Dept of AG which regulated the CCWs

We have medical weed here in Pa too. I think they will go rec use soon too. Not for me so it does not effect my life in anyway. I won't even mess with CBD.

I hope that more and more states thumb their noses and flout the federal prohibitions on marijuana. Certain cities in the state of Ohio have passed their own policies against charging for marijuana possession, even though recreational use isn't legal here. I couldn't be happier. The fact that those federal laws are willfully ignored and there's zero interest in enforcing them by the DEA et al is just fine with me.

I have zero use for the stuff myself and have similar feelings toward the vast majority of folks who use it. But just like the states that refused to enforce immigration law, ignoring preemtion in favor of their own "feel good" policy, I hope their short term memory is still fully functional. When states, counties, municipalities, etc refuse to enforce any new gun restrictions like many have threatened to do, we can all point to recreational marijuana as the precedent.

Jack B. said:

I know some pot smokers and all of them are anti gun.

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I know some pot smokers , they all love guns .

I don’t smoke pot , but IMO it should be legal and treated like alcohol . I would rather be around someone stoned than drunk . I have a few family members and friends that are regular marijuana smokers and gun owners and hunters . One already has a plant about 3’ tall . The local and federal government should make some tax money on it , like they do with cigarettes and alcohol . But I think marijuana will be harder to collect taxes on unless they treat it like moonshine alcohol and make it illegal for individuals to grow without a permit .

I don’t really understand why this so complicated to some people. Weed is illegal on a federal level, everyone knows this. ATF works under federal law correct. The ATF, federal prosecutors or judges etc don’t care about the state laws.


What one thinks about the situation is frankly irrelevant. I have my personal opinions on the matter but the ATF want care, nor will any Judge, and few if any street cops care.

If you can’t understand this, maybe your cognitive ability has been hindered by, something.

red rick said:

I would rather be around someone stoned than drunk .

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I agree 100 percent , alcohol turns people into idiots with no control over their mind or body . Weed does not make you stagger and fall , and it sure does not make you angry like mean drunks get . I know a Judge that smoked weed his whole career , 50 + years on the bench and highly respected . I asked he got stoned before court sessions...He said, heck yes I do, it helps keep my mind clear so I can judge without emotions getting in the way . He also drank early in his career, I asked why he quit , his reply...that stuff makes people stupid ,

DeepSouth said:

I don’t really understand why this so complicated to some people. Weed is illegal on a federal level, everyone knows this. ATF works under federal law correct. The ATF, federal prosecutors or judges etc don’t care about the state laws.


What one thinks about the situation is frankly irrelevant. I have my personal opinions on the matter but the ATF want care, nor will any Judge, and few if any street cops care.

If you can’t understand this, maybe your cognitive ability has been hindered by, something.

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No, there is nothing "complicated" other than the usual convoluted differences between Federal and State laws. What about State Laws that are conflicted with Federal laws.

Heck how about the whole GCA and the ATF in general, ??
Good thing that people can pick a "gender" on the new 4473. Gads what happens if they check the wrong one?

Just what is is a high capacity mag, or a SBR or gee can I transfer this firearm?

The point or issue is that the Feds need to change the list of "controlled substances" Why not put a lot of prescription drugs on the list, they mess people up far more than "pot"

Rule3 said:

What about State Laws that are conflicted with Federal laws.

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Well, they are irrelevant to Federal agencies and authorities.

Rule3 said:

The point or issue is that the Feds need to change the list of "controlled substances"

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Not according to the feds, aka the people that matter/make the fed laws

Rule3 said:

Why not put a lot of prescription drugs on the list, they mess people up far more than "pot"

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Because they are legal everywhere in the US with a RX, without a RX they are on the list.

Yep, it's on the list. The point again is that it should not be on the list.

Don't smoke Pot and have guns

Drink mass quantities of alcohol, take mind altering Rx drugs instead.

12Bravo20 said:

And I always tell them that it is still illegal at the federal level to be in possession of both.

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It’s still illegal at the Federal level to be in possession of just one.

Rule3 said:

Why? God help us from all the drunks with forearms.

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Talk about having to give a drunk a drink. If your handless friend is a drunk you might be an enabler.

Howland937 said:

I hope that more and more states thumb their noses and flout the federal prohibitions on marijuana.

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My wish is for laws to go away if they are not going to be enforced equally across the board. The way they do things these days allows for too much selective enforcement of laws.

Why anyone on this forum would argue to support the current 4473 form and federal law is beyond me. I guess I had assumed we are a little smarter than that, but maybe we have our own useful idiots.

Where, exactly, in the 2nd Amendment does it say
...this amendment only applies if you do / don’t do these additional things?

Every hurdle and barrier to the 2nd (4473, carry permit, etc.) we must argue is illegal. No compromises. The 2nd is our line in the sand.

Rule3 said:

Our Agriculture Commissioner Nikki Fried, has stated that she has both a CCW and a Medical Marijuana card.

Gee how does she get away with it.??

Florida has had Medical Marijuana use for a while. As it is Medical is is under HIPPA so the user can not be reported to the the Dept of AG which regulated the CCWs

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It can if that information is subpoenaed. In her case, it would be a slamdunk conviction at the Federal level, and as the CCW would be public information, any allegation of pot use for medical use would be probable cause for an investigation and indictment under Federal Law.

Rule3 said:

Yep, it's on the list. The point again is that it should not be on the list.

Don't smoke Pot and have guns

Drink mass quantities of alcohol, take mind altering Rx drugs instead.

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YOU may not think it should be on the list, many disagree and among those are “the feds” legally what we think isn’t relevant at all. That point has nothing to do with anything, until the authorities agree.

Also I don’t think it’s legal to possess a firearm while intoxicated on anything, but I could be wrong.

Ru4real said:

Where, exactly, in the 2nd Amendment does it say
...this amendment only applies if you do / don’t do these additional things?

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well to be fair, although I don’t know chapter and verse, it does say something to that affect in the penal code. You break laws you can lose rights, in extreme cases even the right to continue living.



Anyway, I don’t really care about this topic to begin with. I don’t smoke the weeds and don’t plan on starting. Also I’m going to bed, midnights suck.

Craig_VA said:

Here's the key problem with the current situation: Question 21.e. on page 1 of the Form 4473 is
=-=--=

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.​

=-=-=
If a pot user reads that first sentence and fails to process the warning, the likely thought is,
"Hey, I am not an unlawful user; I have a medical marijuana card (or, I bought it at a legal store, not from a street dealer)."

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If he fails to process that warning, there might be a reason.

Does anyone else find the irony that the same agency "controls BATFE

So they have the control over Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives

Controlled drugs are really a DEA thing.

I have enjoyed all of their fine products!

So why the hell isn't alcohol on the list??

In determining into which schedule a drug or other substance should be placed, or whether a substance should be decontrolled or rescheduled, certain factors are required to be considered. These factors are listed in Section 201 (c), [21 U.S.C. § 811 (c)] of the CSA as follows:

(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.
(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect, if known.
(3) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the drug or other substance.
(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.
(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.
(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.
(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.
(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance already controlled under this subchapter.

https://www.dea.gov/drug-information/drug-scheduling

Rule3 said:

why the hell isn't alcohol on the list??

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Well, it used to be...sort of. Then they took it back off the prohibited list for an array of reasons.

Whatever your opinion of weed, alcohol, scripts or whatever is, it'll be a poor defense argument if you ever find yourself charged with crimes relating to them.

The law is what it says it is and if at any time enforcement of said laws is sought, claiming ignorance for lying on a 4473 isn't likely to be a good defense either.

I've wondered the same thing about the "Sovereign Citizens" movement too. Anyone purporting to be one can't legally buy a firearm in the U.S. either....but that's a different topic.