How accurate are rifle shooters

On a good day all in 5 inches other days 1 or 2 in the center and the other 3 not even on the target.

The average of people who are avid shooters and the average of all the rifle owners including people that shoot 3 shots a year for deer season will be very different.

Of all the people who own rifles and actually shoot one of them at least once a year I would say sub 1" shooters are probably 5%. sub 2" are probably 10%. The limiters are not skill but rather no practice and not knowing how to rest in a rifle. With the proper equipment you could coach most people into it in a very short time.

I used to volunteer for sight in day at the local sportman's club range the weekend before deer season. The amount of people that can't hold a group on a 8.5x11 piece of paper at 50 yards is startling.

At least half would clam an SUB MOA group by carefully selecting the three closest shots.
Just like the glossy-paper magazines tell folk to . . .sigh.

someguy2800 said:

I used to volunteer for sight in day at the local sportman club range the weekend before deer season. The amount of people that can't hold a group on a 8.5x11 piece of paper at 50 yards is startling.

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I’ve seen the same thing and it’s more than a little frightening. Especially considering the ones I saw doing that were shooting from a bench.

Things got better when I started going to a range frequented by competitive shooters.

While most of the people I’ve seen shooting are pretty poor shots, I don’t think it has to be that way. I’ve taken a number of people to the range who, after a little instruction, can put down 1.5” groups (about the limit of the gun/ammo combo) from the bench on their first range trip.

I think the difference is that some people are willing to learn and get better, and some just say “I’m a great shooter” and don’t work to improve.

I'm not comparing NRA High Power shooters to the "average' rifle shooter but their matches and scores can give you an idea of what competitors expect to shoot.
The matches are shot at 200, 300 and 600 yds in four twenty shot stages of Standing or "Offhand" then Sitting at 200 yds; Prone
rapid at 300 yds. and Prone slowfire at 600 yds.. The 10 ring is about 7" in diameter and the 9 ring is about 13" for all stages.
Classifications are Marksman who shoot scores of less than 84% meaning the Marksman averages, across all four stages , to shoot no more than twelve shots in the eight ring and eight shots in the nine ring. He may shoot higher or lower scores in each stage but his average score for the match comes to 84%. The next higher classification is Sharpshooter who average at least 84% up to 88.9%. The next classification is Expert who averages 89-93.9%, then Master who averages scores between 94 and 96.9%. the highest class is High Master who averaged 97% and above. The High Master must average fourteen of his twenty shot string into the ten ring and the remaining six of that string no lower than in the nine ring.
To estimate the average group size of each classification let's divide the scoring ring by 6 to reduce the six hundred yard scoring ring to what would be an approximate 100 yd target: a 7" ten ring becomes a 1.167" scoring ring. The 13" nine ring becomes 2.167".
The majority of competitors shoot in the Expert class. Marksmen and Sharpshooters are usually beginners or shooters who shoot only occasionally. Masters and High Masters are usually pretty serious shooters who compete regularly, i.e.: not your average plinker.
So, High Masters and Master shooters can place 94% of their shots inside of a 1.167" circle, unsupported. These guys (and ladies) make up less than 10% of these shooters. Expert and Sharpshooters shoot most of their shots inside a 2.167" group and make up the majority of the field at about 60-70%. Marksmen make up the rest and shoot groups 3" and greater.

Oh, heavens, if you could define the "average rifle shooter" then you'd have to defined the "average rifle" and that might be good for a thread of 30 pages or more.

From what I have seen from the targets tossed in the trash, the average new rifle shooter can hit about a 3" to 4" group at 50 to 75 yds.
As they get used to their guns it will tighten up a little, maybe they will be able to shoot 4" to 6" at 100yds but most are to lazy to walk that far so they will never get any better. We have 8" steel gongs on the 100yd range & they will bang on them all day long & say they are good shooters.
Very few will try to get to be a better shooter, because practice is what it takes. Most of them just like shooting with friends & buddies.

I always claim that I am a mediocre rifleman, but it's only halfway true. Compared to a truly competent fellow, I really am an embarrassment, but compared to a lot folks, I'm actually pretty okay.

I believe that is because the basics of rifle marksmanship are not that tough, but a lot of men never learn any of it. Get yourself a book and a .22 and after just a few hours of work most folks will passable. They won't be in the same league as the fellow who has dedicated his life to it, but they will be miles ahead of the guy who bought a rifle and a couple of boxes of ammo and then figured he'd just let his innate manliness do the rest for him.

Beyond that, I will just say that the bench is not a place to test marksmanship.

As I am working 2 to 4 days each week at an outdoor controlled range varying from 25 - 50 - 100 - 200 - 300 yards and seeing daily all sorts of firearms being used my best guesstimate would be around 3MOA. overall... For every shooter that is shooting .5MOA there are 4 shooting 3MOA... Of course there are those shooting much larger groups but also those shooting 1 or 1.5MOA.

Then I have also witnessed those that come out with new rifles and claim they have been laser bore sighted to 100yds and after a box of ammo still not on paper with a 12" Shoot'n See target at 100 yards. Then was the guy that showed up with a Thompson 45acp and wanted just to see if he could hit a target at 200yds. Answer was NO.

2". Off one sand bag.

If you want tighter, then I'll have to steady myself with a bipod and maybe a rear bag. My sights are dancing all over.

.38 Special said:

Beyond that, I will just say that the bench is not a place to test marksmanship.

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I agree. Unfortunately, it seems for most, to be the benchmark for their skills.

trackskippy said:

I agree. Unfortunately, it seems for most, to be the benchmark for their skills.

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I see what you did there.

Poconolg said:

Thinking, how accurate is the average rifle shooter. If you took at random 100 rifle shooters sat them at a bench at 100 yds and they shot a 5 shot group what would be the mean group size?
What percent 2" or more
1" or more
1"or less

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Depends on the rifle, ammo, conditions and shooters experience. I guess everyone will hit a man sized target.

someguy2800 said:

The average of people who are avid shooters and the average of all the rifle owners including people that shoot 3 shots a year for deer season will be very different.

Of all the people who own rifles and actually shoot one of them at least once a year I would say sub 1" shooters are probably 5%. sub 2" are probably 10%. The limiters are not skill but rather no practice and not knowing how to rest in a rifle. With the proper equipment you could coach most people into it in a very short time.

I used to volunteer for sight in day at the local sportman's club range the weekend before deer season. The amount of people that can't hold a group on a 8.5x11 piece of paper at 50 yards is startling.

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This is pretty much my experience as well. This includes members of a gun club that have been shooting for many years. Guys shooting high end rifles from a bench shooting groups that look like shotgun patterns. Part of it is not really knowing how to shoot and another part is not knowing how to set up the gun properly. And they generally don't like you to notice or offer help either.

trackskippy said:

I agree. Unfortunately, it seems for most, to be the benchmark for their skills.

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Guess that all depends on your definition of Marksmanship. 5" deer chest target freehand @100yds or a 1" dot from a rest at 100yds. I've watched both and both require different skills.

I'm a decent shot. Not sure if I'm average, or above or below, but I'm decent. I'm not as good as I used to be though. Just don't put in the time these days like I used to, plus I'm getting older, and have injuries to deal with. Be that as it may, I could go to the range tomorrow if I wanted to and lay down a 100 yd group of just over .75" if I had a mind to. Here's the kicker... I'd have to do it from the bench, and with one certain rifle, and it's favorite load. Unfortunately, it's not my SHTF AR either, but hey, I could do it... With most of my other rifles, I'm good enough to defend myself, good enough to harvest meat, good enough to have fun plinking... That's all that matters. I do love making those neat little groups, and I do have a couple other precision rifles, but I just haven't got them dialed in yet like I have that one old .243. Me, and that thing just work well together. If only I could find about 2 full cases of Winchester 95 gr Deer Season ammo somewhere. That's the one round that thing really likes.

Poconolg said:

If you took at random 100 rifle shooters sat them at a bench at 100 yds and they shot a 5 shot group what would be the mean group size?

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So many variables ,but I would guess most could should under 2" groups with a steady rest or sandbag .

kmw1954 said:

Then was the guy that showed up with a Thompson 45acp and wanted just to see if he could hit a target at 200yds. Answer was NO.

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That reminds me of a story. I used to live in the city when my wife was in school and I joined a shooting club to have a place to shoot rifle. One day I’m out shooting and a guy comes and sits at a rifle bench at the 100 yard range. He waits till we do a target check and he walks out and hangs up an 8” steel plate he brought. He walks back to the bench and pulls out a 1911 with iron sights and proceedes to bang away on that plate from a sand bag. I was duly impressed.

Having never owned a rifle scope, am curious:

With so many kinds of scopes or similar gear out there, do most rifle shooters (with decent vision) even Attempt to use any available iron sights…

…at the risk of possibly not shooting a good group when somebody else will see the results?

I discount sitting at a bench in a rest at 100yds and even have a hard time with optic sights as a measure of marksmanship. Toe the 600 yard line with open sights, a sling and in a wind then we can talk true "shooting ability"...at least with a high powered rifle.

Ignition Override said:

Having never owned a rifle scope, am curious:

With so many kinds of scopes or similar gear out there, do most rifle shooters (with decent vision) even Attempt to use any available iron sights…

…at the risk of possibly not shooting a good group when somebody else will see the results?

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I am pretty badly near sighted so I mostly reserve shooting iron sighted rifles to plinking offhand for fun on steel plates. For me a 4” group at 100 yards with iron sights from a rest is about the best I can do and I don’t think that’s to shabby. I just can’t see the target any better than that. A 6 or 8 inch steel plate at 100 yards standing offhand with iron sights is a lot of fun and challenging enough to require concentration for me, especially the 6” plate, which I’ll probably hit 3 out of 5 shots offhand

An interesting note, my brother in law and father in law were both very good competitive small bore rifle shooters about 15 years ago but are a bit out of practice now. I can shoot circles around them both from a bench because I do it a lot, but they can both match or beat me shooting offhand. I don’t consider any of us to be more of a marksman than the others, I just have about 10 times more practice shooting from the bench than them. When it comes to making a shot in real field conditions they are every bit as capable or better than me.

Ive posted many video's of me shooting, I'll venture to say I can put 2 into just about any brain size out to 500 yards, with consistency.
Not every shot, but most.
I shoot standing, kneeling, sometimes rested across my snowgo seat.

I just never have shot for groups or strings outside of Biathalon in High School, Most all my shooting is at living, walking, running or flying and sometimes swimming targets.
I do shoot steel gongs for kicks, constantly in camp. I will confess, i only "score" if I hit the steel, and I dont look for groups on them.....I keep shooting.....LOL!

I started out ~45 years with a 10-22 ago just plinking and later wanting to hit a 16x16 Target at 100 with an SKS … after reading a couple books (this was pre-internet, so no YouTube’s) and a few cases of ammo I found out that with my rifle & steel case ammo 8” was as good as it was going to get and I think that’s about when I started shooting for group size.
~~
Then 30 or so years ago (before barrel float tubes & 4pound triggers) I bought a 20” AR from a buddy and was amazed when my groups instantly shrank to 4” … then bought some Federal Match ammo and it shrank to around 1.5”.
It wasn’t long until I had a few AR’s of my own and started hand loading, then coming home with groups of an inch & slightly under.
~
Now at 64 & not so great health I do have a decent collection but am leaning back to plinking & 22’s.