How accurate are rifle shooters

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ignition Override said:
With so many kinds of scopes or similar gear out there, do most rifle shooters (with decent vision) even Attempt to use any available iron sights…
Click to expand...
I have a 4x ACOG on my AR, an 8 or 10x scope on my hunting rifle, and all the rest are irons. I shot my local tactical rifle match this past Sunday with my FAL and iron sights. I did okay. I have not shot that rifle, or competition at all, in a long time.
 
If we assume this question is asking the median (or mode) skill level of the average rifle owner, it’s abysmally poor. These “average shooters” have fired less than 100 centerfire rounds in their life, don’t truly know how to zero a scope on their own, are not gun forum users, don’t frequent the range, don’t have gun friends who are only in their lives only because of a shared hobby in firearms, aren’t what any of us here would consider to be “shooters,” let alone “marksmen.”

A generation ago, these were your “a pie plate sized group at 50yrds will fill my freezer” guys, today, it’s your “I have an M4 clone a) like on CoD, b) in case SHTF, c) because of the government BS, d) some other silliness...
 
Shooting is a skill, one that without constant practice, gets lost.

The range masters at CMP Talladege have lots of stories. One that surprised me is passing the shooting test at their Bullseye Pistol Range. To shoot on range two you have to keep ten bullets inside a two foot by two foot area, which corresponds to the Bullseye full face target at 25 yards and 50 yards. This area is the space inside the plastic armor shielding on their target

KmxQqqS.jpg

71yYC4E.jpg

DT8V1WF.jpg

This AMU shooter is using the 50 yard targets.

hi4HdlC.jpg

There are so few shooters who can keep ten shots within two foot by two feet at 25 yards, that I noticed the range masters knew me by name! I asked them how many shooters had qualified, and maybe 50, maybe 75. The day I first qualified, the area in front of my shooting point was filled with 380 Auto brass. The range master said a group from Atlanta had showed up, and not one of them managed to keep ten shots on the target center at 25 yards.

And yet, these are the same types who want to know what is the most accurate pistol, rifle, ammunition, etc. They truly believe that if they spend enough money on equipment, they can compensate for a basic lack of shooting skills.
 
Slamfire said:
Shooting is a skill, one that without constant practice, gets lost.

And yet, these are the same types who want to know what is the most accurate pistol, rifle, ammunition, etc. .
Click to expand...

At 25 yards with a pistol I freely admit I would struggle these days because my eyes are not what they use to be. 50 yards won't even try anymore as it is just a waste of ammunition. Though I can still shoot MOA groups with my Savage 223 at 300 yards.

I will admit that is a very impressive range you have there. Love those target stands. They would be sweet on our 200/300yd range. Though many of our shooters there are shooting at 1" stick on targets at 200 and 300 yards. While I am still using 3" stick on targets.
 
I learned a long time ago, don’t tell me, show me. On a good day with a good rifle I can shoot MOA or slightly sub MOA off the bench out to 600 yards. Add in fatigue, stress, weather, wind, time constraints, attitude and a host of other issues and that can change in a hurry.

Most days I can manage an MOA group off the bench at 100 yards. Most days……
 
sarduy said:
Depends on the rifle, ammo, conditions and shooters experience. I guess everyone will hit a man sized target.
Click to expand...

On a solid bench with a rest at 25 yards then okay I generally agree. Otherwise going to go with 'nope.' Go to a few sight-in days before deer season will make you really wonder how so many deer end up in freezers. Once you get off the benches and start shooting from various standing positions things do not improve. I've seen plenty of people at indoor 25 yard ranges putting up pie plate groups with carbines.
 
I'll be the first to admit I don't shoot rifles all that often, and most of my groups with low powered optics at 100 yards at 2-3". My Tikka wears a 3-9x and I get 1-2" groups with that. I'm sure I'd improve with more practice, but my rifle range sessions are pretty sporadic. I could spin you a yarn about this group or that group, but the truth is what it is. Holes in paper don't lie.
 
Ignition Override said:
With so many kinds of scopes or similar gear out there, do most rifle shooters (with decent vision) even Attempt to use any available iron sights…
Click to expand...
A few of my rifles don't even have scopes, and I have no desire to equip them with scopes - my old Model 94, 30-30 is one example.
Ignition Override said:
…at the risk of possibly not shooting a good group when somebody else will see the results?
Click to expand...
A 3-shot, 3" group at 100 with my Model 94 is good enough for me, and I've put venison on the table with it. I don't much care if "somebody else" doesn't like my group sizes with my iron sighted rifles - or my scoped rifles either for that matter. In fact, I'm not even sure who that "somebody else" would be. The "Accuracy Police" perhaps?o_O:D
 
Slamfire said:
Shooting is a skill, one that without constant practice, gets lost.

The range masters at CMP Talladege have lots of stories. One that surprised me is passing the shooting test at their Bullseye Pistol Range. To shoot on range two you have to keep ten bullets inside a two foot by two foot area, which corresponds to the Bullseye full face target at 25 yards and 50 yards. This area is the space inside the plastic armor shielding on their target

View attachment 1028371

View attachment 1028372

View attachment 1028373

This AMU shooter is using the 50 yard targets.

View attachment 1028374

There are so few shooters who can keep ten shots within two foot by two feet at 25 yards, that I noticed the range masters knew me by name! I asked them how many shooters had qualified, and maybe 50, maybe 75. The day I first qualified, the area in front of my shooting point was filled with 380 Auto brass. The range master said a group from Atlanta had showed up, and not one of them managed to keep ten shots on the target center at 25 yards.

And yet, these are the same types who want to know what is the most accurate pistol, rifle, ammunition, etc. They truly believe that if they spend enough money on equipment, they can compensate for a basic lack of shooting skills.
Click to expand...

Whenever anyone is coming to shoot at my home pistol range I have to move all the plates. My plate hangers are 10-30 yards and most people don't have an ice cubes chance in hell of hitting an 8 inch plate more than once at 30 yards, let alone the 4" swingers I normally have out there for my more accurate pistols.
 
I know more than 1 person that will show up to sight their rifles in with a mix of different weights, brands, and ages of ammunition. They dont seem to grasp or care that different weights are probably not going to group together, let alone some old crusty ammo from who knows where.
 
It's a very perishable skill. When I was chasing leg points and shooting most weekends including out of state matches(both pistol and rifle) I was "holding hard". I went distinguished and so didn't feel the need to shoot as often...and my scores reflected that in a relatively short period of time. Although still shooting master scores, I'd still have the occasional flyer which made me scratch my head...but it was usually called so I knew my barrel wasn't the problem. I coached two junior teams, both of which did very well at Perry so dedicated more time coaching than shooting which also led to my scores heading south. For the "average"? shooter who may simply go to the range every month or two....or even just to sight their hunting rifle in(while not shooting in field positions) there's no expectation of consistent accuracy beyond possibly 2-3 MOA even from a bench at almost any yardage....
 
When I resided in Western PA, I was a member of Millvale Sportsmen's Club. Each year the club had sight in days. The marksmanship or should I say exhibited thus the lack of from shooting of a bench rest was abysmal at best. Each year I witnessed this over ten plus years.
 
let me put it this way: when i go to the public range in the national forest, i never take targets. there are always plenty still hanging with no holes anywhere near the bullseye


edit: despite that, any time i take my match rifle and let someone else shoot it, they almost always seem to be able to hit 1 MOA targets at distance, if they listen to my wind call. so, for scoped rifles, i generally think half the problem is equipment not properly set up, and the other half is atrocious marksmanship
 
Last edited:
I typically shoot rifles first then hit the pistol range. Our range didn’t loan out target stands during the height of the Corona issues last year. I would sometimes loan my stand to people while I was at the pistol range. I stopped doing that because every time I did, they shot my stand. It’s 2’ wide and they (different groups) hit both legs from 25 yards off a bench.
 
One benefit of often shooting alone,
at Action Pistol (rifles mostly) is having neither the peer pressure nor desire, to be very accurate.

Large, empty juice jugs will jump high, “dance” for anybody.

If something random kills me next month, I will be glad that shooting was fun. Not kidding.
 
Last edited:
Slamfire said:
Shooting is a skill, one that without constant practice, gets lost.

The range masters at CMP Talladege have lots of stories. One that surprised me is passing the shooting test at their Bullseye Pistol Range. To shoot on range two you have to keep ten bullets inside a two foot by two foot area, which corresponds to the Bullseye full face target at 25 yards and 50 yards. This area is the space inside the plastic armor shielding on their target

View attachment 1028371

View attachment 1028372

View attachment 1028373

This AMU shooter is using the 50 yard targets.

View attachment 1028374

There are so few shooters who can keep ten shots within two foot by two feet at 25 yards, that I noticed the range masters knew me by name! I asked them how many shooters had qualified, and maybe 50, maybe 75. The day I first qualified, the area in front of my shooting point was filled with 380 Auto brass. The range master said a group from Atlanta had showed up, and not one of them managed to keep ten shots on the target center at 25 yards.

And yet, these are the same types who want to know what is the most accurate pistol, rifle, ammunition, etc. They truly believe that if they spend enough money on equipment, they can compensate for a basic lack of shooting skills.
Click to expand...
So, any thoughts on the subject ?...Thinking, how accurate is the average rifle shooter. If you took at random 100 rifle shooters sat them at a bench at 100 yds and they shot a 5 shot group what would be the mean group size?
 
Dale Alan said:
So, any thoughts on the subject ?...Thinking, how accurate is the average rifle shooter. If you took at random 100 rifle shooters sat them at a bench at 100 yds and they shot a 5 shot group what would be the mean group size?
Click to expand...
In my circle of hunting buddies 100% could shoot a MOA to sub MOA 5 shot group most of the time from a solid rested bench position.

I can’t comment as to the general shooting public . But my totally non scientific guess is that a large percentage cannot. If we move to field positions the margins start to become much thinner.
 
H&Hhunter said:
In my circle of hunting buddies 100% could shoot a MOA to sub MOA 5 shot group most of the time from a solid rested bench position.

I can’t comment as to the general shooting public . But my totally non scientific guess is that a large percentage cannot. If we move to field positions the margins start to become much thinner.
Click to expand...

I can tell you right now that I would be unable to do it from any field position other than prone with a bipod or improvised rest of some sort
 
Dale Alan said:
So, any thoughts on the subject ?...Thinking, how accurate is the average rifle shooter. If you took at random 100 rifle shooters sat them at a bench at 100 yds and they shot a 5 shot group what would be the mean group size?
Click to expand...
It they all had lead sleds than numbers may be fair, say 4 moa. Random shooters at a bench otherwise let's go safe money at 6 moa. A recruit shooting marksman after a bit of training is 23 of 40 rounds on a 6 moa target. Most people don't have a lot of training and fewer still practice much. Obviously a significant number of people can shoot better and will bring in the averages.
 
Slamfire said:
Shooting is a skill, one that without constant practice, gets lost.

The range masters at CMP Talladege have lots of stories. One that surprised me is passing the shooting test at their Bullseye Pistol Range. To shoot on range two you have to keep ten bullets inside a two foot by two foot area, which corresponds to the Bullseye full face target at 25 yards and 50 yards. This area is the space inside the plastic armor shielding on their target

View attachment 1028371

View attachment 1028372

View attachment 1028373

This AMU shooter is using the 50 yard targets.

View attachment 1028374

There are so few shooters who can keep ten shots within two foot by two feet at 25 yards, that I noticed the range masters knew me by name! I asked them how many shooters had qualified, and maybe 50, maybe 75. The day I first qualified, the area in front of my shooting point was filled with 380 Auto brass. The range master said a group from Atlanta had showed up, and not one of them managed to keep ten shots on the target center at 25 yards.

And yet, these are the same types who want to know what is the most accurate pistol, rifle, ammunition, etc. They truly believe that if they spend enough money on equipment, they can compensate for a basic lack of shooting skills.
Click to expand...

It isn't easy. I have shot a few matches. I know that not many of the guys I shoot against could hit 10 shots on that size target at 25 yards much less 50. AT my home range there must be alot of guys that have trouble hitting the entire target at ten yards. The target stands get shot up so bad that they need to be replaced weekly.
 
When I come home following a day at the range my wife would ask me if I brought home any targets I had shot. Sometimes I would and sometimes not so she asked me why. I told her I only save the good ones. :)

Normally I shoot 5 shot groups off the bench at 100 yards out to 200 yards. My best was a 0.4" group using a Remington 700 in a rifle I custom built, with scope. The same rifle I can generally hold a 1.0" 5 shot group at the hundred yard mark. My hunting rifles, M1 Garand or 03 Springfield on a good day maybe a 3.0" group. This is also with hand loads I have worked up. Winters up here convert my outdoor range to a frozen tundra so come spring the process starts all over again. One of the members here has a tagline to the effect the guys winning and placing in matches are the first ones on the range in the morning and the last to leave in the evening. They constantly hone their skills and work at it. Getting older and the eyes, even with a scope are not what they once were. Haven't hunted in a decade but still enjoy my time on the range. :) So that's just me and haven't a clue as to percentages or averages of others.

Ron
 
I am handy with most rifles and handguns, I am more handy on some days than others. I am average in a group of skilled shooters, I am a superb shooter in the company of inexperience. In the entire population of gun owners, I would rate myself as above average or skilled - my ability as a ranking is all relative. I compete with myself when I shoot, I would rate myself as confident while sometimes struggling with consistency.
 
d2wing said:
It isn't easy. I have shot a few matches. I know that not many of the guys I shoot against could hit 10 shots on that size target at 25 yards much less 50. AT my home range there must be alot of guys that have trouble hitting the entire target at ten yards. The target stands get shot up so bad that they need to be replaced weekly.
Click to expand...

I have shot cleans on the timed and rapid fire targets at 25 yards. But I have goals for my 50 yard slowfire. I have met one, I kept all ten shots from my 22lr in the black at 50 yards. It has taken years to do this. I have almost kept them all in the black with the 45 ACP, I am pretty happy if I keep them all on the repair center. It took several years before I stopped missing the 50 yard target, regularly.

Being awful is just wonderful: no pressure. I am a good smallbore prone shot, and I get upset with nines or eights. Expectations are too high, and good shooter's self flagellate themselves when they fall short of perfection. But for me, with Bullseye Pistol, it is all learning curve. Misses are just bumps in the road of improvement.

Just be aware, when you score a Bullseye shooter with a President's 100 patch, you better have your scoring overlays, and some emotional support from the RO's, when deciding the shot does not touch the higher ring!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Bwana John
  • Locked
Quantifying accuracy and precision question.
Replies
15
Views
627
BusMaster007
BusMaster007
D
  • Locked
Savage Accuracy fact or myth?
2 3
Replies
64
Views
12K
hueyville
H
T
  • Locked
For anyone with a non modified rifle, What is your accuracy??
Replies
2
Views
416
rangerruck
R
S
  • Locked
AK74 shoots holes in holes at 25 yds...
Replies
13
Views
924
RetiredUSNChief
RetiredUSNChief
K
  • Locked
.44 Mag. single shot rifle accuracy ?
Replies
1
Views
279
willypete
W
Back
Top