Question on traveling to California for a vacation

You would be fine traveling that way. My only concern would be if a hotel employee was skittish about guns and called law enforcement and they showed up and you had a loaded shotgun(probably legal). After the Las Vegas shooting some people are paranoid.

You might have to check CA ammunition import laws ... the state might require you to have the shells transferred in-state through an authorized retailer.

tominboise said:

I don't really want to be in the middle of nowhere unarmed in the middle of the night.

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That would make me nervous too, but so would being in the middle of a urban area unarmed.

To help avoid a possible issue as mentioned above I'd suggest breaking it down so as to fit in a short case. something that doesn't look so much like a gun case.

Gelrir said:

You might have to check CA ammunition import laws ... the state might require you to have the shells transferred in-state through an authorized retailer.

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I can't think anybody would have laws that ridiculous.
Oh, wait, he's going to California. Nevermind....................

Non-residents can't purchase ammunition in state, but can bring their own for personal use. Prop 63 applies to residents.

30314

Truth is, nobody is going to care if you bring your shotgun in the manner you intend to do so.

[QUOTE="tominboise, post: 12169674, member: 280483"]I read the rules regarding guns and non residents, transporting only unloaded in a locked gun case, ammo locked up, etc. and decided that bringing along the G26 wasn't worth the headaches. I would like to bring along a Remmy 870 and a box of shells. The Remmy would be secured in a locked hard case, as would the ammo. The hardcase would be stowed in the back of our travel wagon. At night, the gun would be carried into the hotel/air bnb, etc, removed from the hardcase and loaded. In the morning, unload, lock in the case, stow in the car and move on. I understand this to be legal. Is my understanding correct?[/QUOTE]

I'm curious as to why you think k the G26 is a headache but not the shotgun if you plan(ed) too lock up the shotgun same as the G26?

And where are you reading that ammo has to be locked up? That's not true.



Long guns don't need to be locked up... but I would.

From the CA AG website.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel

HANDGUNS
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 25610, a United States citizen over 18 years of age who is not prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, may transport by motor vehicle any handgun provided it is unloaded and locked in the vehicle’s trunk or in a locked container. Furthermore, the handgun must be carried directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while being carried must be contained within a locked container.

Pursuant to California Penal Code section 16850, the term "locked container" means a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment.

SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES
Nonconcealable firearms (shotguns and rifles) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 25400 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported.

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IMO, the G26 would be my choice over the shotgun unless you're much more proficient with a shot gun.

Basura Blanca said:

Non-residents can't purchase ammunition in state, but can bring their own for personal use. Prop 63 applies to residents.

30314

Truth is, nobody is going to care if you bring your shotgun in the manner you intend to do so.

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The point is well made here that California's ammunition importation statute applies to residents of California.

A non-resident can legally purchase ammunition within California, but the cost of the required background check is kinda excessive, better to bring your own. Please refer to California Penal Code section 30370(c).

But I have to respectfully disagree that "nobody is going to care" is you bring your cased shotgun into your hotel room. On of the last major arrests made by my deputies before I retired involved a suspect who was observed by motel employees transporting a rifle case between his vehicle and motel room. California has a quirky case law that allows law enforcement officers to search vehicles for firearms, even if lawfully possessed, based on Probable Cause to believe a firearm is in the vehicle. That search also revealed a very large quantity of narcotics, and a large sum of cash.

A key question at the criminal trial was the lawfulness of the vehicle search that revealed the narcotics. The defense attacked the PC for the search since only the rifle case was seen by the reporting party. No actual firearm was seen, and that even if an actual firearm were seen, there was no evidence that the possession was unlawful until the narcotics were found.

The prosecution prevailed on the motion to exclude evidence. The court basically found that the observation of the rifle case provided sufficient cause to believe a firearm was inside (applying the "Single Purpose Container" rule) and therefore the vehicle could be searched for the rifle case and it's contents. The dope was found incident to that search and the money found during a search for additional dope.

A lot of California folks go really nutso over guns and will call the local constabulary if they see someone with a gun case.

danez71 said:

From the CA AG website.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel

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I was just about to post the same link to answer OP's question about traveling with guns in CA and I agree.

danez71 said:

tominboise said:

We are planning on spending a week or so in Palm Springs ... a G26 if it matters ... decided that bringing along the G26 wasn't worth the headaches

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I'm curious as to why you think k the G26 is a headache

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Traveling with guns would essentially be an act of importing a firearm into CA and only Glock 26 that is currently on the Handgun Roster is Generation 3 model (And only 10 round or less capacity magazines can be brought into CA for now while we wait on Duncan v Becerra/Bonta).

So while you can bring into CA Gen3 G26, bringing Gen4/Gen5 G26 would be illegal.

As to bringing ammunition, importation of ammunition into the state is prohibited for resident of CA, not non-resident - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30314.

However, ammunition brought into the state by non-resident cannot be sold or transferred - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312.

Traveling with guns would essentially be an act of importing a firearm into CA and only Glock 26 that is currently on the Handgun Roster is Generation 3 model (And only 10 round or less capacity magazines can be brought into CA for now while we wait on Duncan v Becerra/Bonta).

So while you can bring into CA Gen3 G26, bringing Gen4/Gen5 G26 would be illegal.

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I've gotta respectfully disagree here.

California's "Safe Handgun" statute does not prohibit the importation into the state of an "Off-Roster" handgun. It only prevents the sale, or dealer transfer of an off-roster handgun. A traveller, or a new state resident, may lawfully import an off-roster handgun.

Magazines are a different story. The importation into the state of a large-capacity magazine (one holding more than 10 rounds) is illegal in California and violation is a felony. The simple possession of large-capacity magazines is misdemeanor, but enforcement has been stayed pending resolution of the Duncan v Bonta case. But that stay does not affect enforcement of the importation provision.

RickD427 said:

The importation into the state of a large-capacity magazine (one holding more than 10 rounds) is illegal in California and violation is a felony. The simple possession of large-capacity magazines is misdemeanor, but enforcement has been stayed pending resolution of the Duncan v Bonta case. But that stay does not affect enforcement of the importation provision.

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I am not a lawyer but I believe "possession" enforcement applies to residents of CA.

If you are non-resident of CA and bring in larger than 10 round capacity magazine, you would be violating importation law.

Now, if you are non-resident who only brought in "CA legal" firearm for your vacation, how would you explain your possession of larger than 10 round capacity magazine?

LiveLife said:

I am not a lawyer but I believe "possession" enforcement applies to residents of CA.

If you are non-resident of CA and bring in larger than 10 round capacity magazine, you would be violating importation law.

Now, if you are non-resident who only brought in "CA legal" firearm for your vacation, how would you explain your possession of larger than 10 round capacity magazine?

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You're talking about two separate issues here. Let's be careful to keep them separate.


The Glock 26 is sold with a standard 10 round capacity magazine. It will accept magazines with a larger capacity. It the standard Glock 26, with a 10 round magazine, is imported into California by a traveller, or a new resident, neither the "Safe Handgun" statute, nor the "Large-Capacity Magazine" statute is violated. If person imports a Large-Capacity Magazine into the state, then they commit a felony. But that felony is irrespective of the weapon. It's the magazine that matters.

LiveLife said:

Traveling with guns would essentially be an act of importing a firearm into CA and only Glock 26 that is currently on the Handgun Roster is Generation 3 model (And only 10 round or less capacity magazines can be brought into CA for now while we wait on Duncan v Becerra/Bonta)

So while you can bring into CA Gen3 G26, bringing Gen4/Gen5 G26 would be illegal.

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That's not true as Rick pointed out. I have experienced 1st hand. I imported a few off roster handguns when I moved from AZ to CA. There is a form to fill out and pay a fee. You have 60 (or 90?) days to do so.

LiveLife said:

I am not a lawyer but I believe "possession" enforcement applies to residents of CA.

If you are non-resident of CA and bring in larger than 10 round capacity magazine, you would be violating importation law.

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The possession law applies to residents and non-residents. You'd be in violation of both possession and importing a larger than 10 round mag.

Great question.
Many people travel to California for shooting events with rifles in a long case and enough reloading supplies for sometimes a week long event going in and out of motels. None I know of ever mentioned any problems or what the laws were.

Following

tominboise said:

a can of bear spray

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Hmm, wonder if CA, or its municipal polities have restrictions on "defense sprays."

tominboise said:

So I am starting to think that I should leave all the guns home and just bring a can of bear spray and an axe handle.

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But why throw in the towel?

Take your G26 and 10 round mags. Lock the g26 in a container unloaded. No thread barrel or suppressors. The ammo doesn't have to be locked. The mags can even be left loaded but not in the gun if loaded.


Bear spray and an axe handle introduce other issues. IMO, Just use pepper spay if you go that route. Big peppers spray.

CapnMac said:

Hmm, wonder if CA, or its municipal polities have restrictions on "defense sprays."

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You can buy pepper spray all over CA. May need to be 18+; not sure.

tominboise said:

I hear you - I just don't want to be the exception to what usually happens. I don't anticipate any trouble but I want to cover my bases before I go there. There is a lot of great info here and I appreciate it.

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Probably no harm in having your favorite soft ball glove and aluminum bat in the car, just for staying active in that beautiful California weather of course.

When we travel to CA, I usually bring a compact .38 revolver, such as an Model 64 snub. No magazine issues that way. Following CA law makes it essentially impossible have the weapon available to defend against sudden attack during the day, but we can have it in the hotel/motel room at night ready to go. The concept of being a 1000 miles from home without ANY defensive firearm is disconcerting to me, so having one available with a small box of ammo, even if locked in the trunk, is comforting. You never know what might make things go south.

tominboise said:

Do the mags also have to be in a locked case, if loaded? or just separate from the gun, that's locked in the case. For instance, the G26 is locked in the case, in the back of the van and the 10 round mags are loaded and in the glove box?

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As long as the loaded mags are not in the gun, you can keep them in the same locked container as the gun....or unlocked separate from the gun.

A hand gun has to be unloaded and in a locked container - period.

Ammo doesn't have to be locked nor in a separate container.

tominboise said:

Do the mags also have to be in a locked case, if loaded? or just separate from the gun, that's locked in the case. For instance, the G26 is locked in the case, in the back of the van and the 10 round mags are loaded and in the glove box?

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There is no statute that clearly requires the magazines, or ammunition, to also be in a locked case.

But you should be aware of two points:

1) California case law establishes that the magazine is a component of the firearm (refer to People v Hale). It is possible to read the Hale decision in conjunction with the statute requiring firearms to be carried in locked cases and to reach the conclusion that the magazine(s) must be so carried. No Appellate Court that I'm aware of has published any such opinion.

2) California has two very different definitions of when a firearm is considered "Loaded." Under the general definition, a firearm is loaded when there is a round in the weapon that could be fired by the normal operation of the weapon. But there is also a special definition of "Loaded" that applies when the weapon is carried in conjunction with a felony, at gun shows, in specified government buildings and residences of specified government officials, and in specified portions of the city of Sacramento. Under the special definition of loaded, the weapon is loaded if the weapon and ammunition are both accessible to the person. Under the special definition, you can have the empty weapon in a locked case in your trunk, and the magazines and ammunition in a separate locked container in the back seat, and the weapon would still be considered as "loaded." A few folks have gone to jail when they followed the general definition in cases where the special definition applied.

RickD427 said:

1) As to the issue of the "Off-Roster" handgun:

There's no problem with a traveller bring in an off-roster handgun.​

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I stand corrected. Non-residents can have off-roster handguns in CA for up to 60 days - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=27560.

RickD427 said:

2) As to the "Possession" of large-capacity magazines:

The law makes no distinction between "residents' and "non-residents". Please indicate just where you believe there is any distinction made​

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As to "non-resident" use, it was done as OP is a non-resident.

RickD427 said:

The simple possession of large-capacity magazines is misdemeanor, but enforcement has been stayed pending resolution of the Duncan v Bonta case. But that stay does not affect enforcement of the importation provision.

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And we are in agreement as anyone (resident or non-resident) bringing larger than 10 round capacity magazine into CA would violate importation law (Unless you are in the exemption group such as law enforcement, etc.).

Unfortunately in CA there is the law, and then there are things that may not be against the law but could get you in trouble in the wrong/right place. I lived there for 60 years (moved 3 years ago) and while I generally agree with what danez71 said I’d add a bit more. I am not an attorney, so this is based on my own experience, reading, and observations.

I can’t find the legal cite, but I am pretty sure that loaded magazines cannot be touching the unloaded weapon in any way. The safest thing to do is to put the pistol in a locking case and put that case and ammo in the trunk. (Legally the trunk can be the locked container but you could be pushing your luck with some LEOs.). If I had loaded mags I’d lock them in a separate case. The thing is that you want things to look like a safe transport to LE or a DA, rather than a slightly delayed access CCW.

You do not say if you will be traveling with any children or not. Note that CA has laws relating to children and gun access, and you can be cited if a child can access your gun. This is true even in your hotel room if the child is traveling with you. https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/gun-storage-laws-california.htm

Parts of CA are much more hostile to guns than other parts. I personally would not have a pistol in my trunk (unloaded, locked, etc.) and drive through SF unless I was directly traveling to a range or to my hotel. So if I was going to do the tourist thing in SF I’d leave my pistol back at my hotel. I’d also limit the ammo I brought to limit the odds of being accused of bringing in ammo to sell in the state.

I’ve had to go to CA a lot in the last three years due ailing family. FWIW I had unloaded pistols in locking bags. Loaded mags (10 rds or less)were stored in a separate locked bag. I had a box of loose ammo as well. Total ammo was about 100 rds. Once I got to my hotel or house the guns came out of the car. A “locked bag” for transport can be as simple as a soft pistol bag with a small lock through the zipper. I am not current on the latest child access laws so if you go this route confirm that it meets the child access laws as well.