Progress report, .22 Hornet Combination Wolf & Small Game.

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I have heard about seating a .22" pellet in a primed case, in the .22 Hornet. No powder. I haven't found much info on that. but I may give it a try. Unfortunately both my air-guns are .25".

I did some youtube searching the other day, and did find some stuff on .22 Hornet light loads, and some stuff on .223 light loads, which is "kind of" comparable. Didn't really look like any problems were encountered. Looked like Trail Boss worked really well as it bulks up good. I could not find anything sub-1000fps, but it looked like 1000fps turned in good groups. So, I'm thinking things will work. My "target" velocity is 800fps, but I don't think 1000fps will be to rough on the little birdies, and of course I want enough oooomph to kill a rabbit cleanly.

I suppose I'll get some bullets stuck in the bore when working "down" the load. But that's okay, I'll know what the low limit is, and then just load up until I'm confident they won't get stuck up on the side of some mountain, and six or seven mile in. !!!!
 
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Progress Report: HAPPY DAYS! Received my bullets, which are Speer 46 grain flat-nose, for some reason I was thinking they was 43 grain. But I have been wrong before. 1.5 grains of Unique, four in one hole, with a "flyer" way out of the group. !!!! Yes, it's only 15 yards, but that's the range I see small game at 95% of the time. I have a feeling that that group isn't going to open up that much at 20-25 yards either.

About the same report of a .22LR with standard velocity ammo. I figure that's enough "pop" to ensure the bullet won't stick in the bore, (plenty more shooting to come to make sure) and again I want enough power to cleanly take a rabbit. I'll run some over the chronograph also, see how close I came to my "target" velocity, which is 800fps. Not as quiet as the CCI .22LR "Quiets" out of my Marlin with the 24 inch barrel, but I can live with this. !!! No sonic "crack" either.

I am really pleased, I have enough wiggle room with the full power load to raise the POI a bit, and then just raise my front sight up a bit in the rear notch to get right on with the SGL. (Small Game Load!) Or shoot for the little birdie's head, which should put it in the body. Or shoot a hair high, we'll see. On rabbit, I may have to shoot a hare high.

Is that cool or what? I think the combination wolf and small game rifle is a success.
 
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Not quite Colibri, and not as slow as CCI .22 Quiets, but about in line with a .22LR pistol shooting regular .22LR ammo. (which makes way more noise) This is 1.5 grains of Unique under the 43 grain bullet. This will work as I don't want to reduce the charge further and mess with the one-hole accuracy I'm getting at small game range. I was hoping for 800-850fps, but this is close enough and will hit our big snowshoe rabbits a bit harder, if I should ever want to shoot one. (only if I'm very hungry)

I shot a few "Quiets" out of my Little Badger first, just in case the chrono was not reading right, and the muzzle report with the Small Game Hornets (SGH!) was hardly any louder than the CCI Quiet .22LR. I thought that was impressive considering the 250fps difference in velocity.

Well, I think I achieved two guns in one, but as far as the perfect survival/trekking/hiking/woods loafing/woods bumming/exploring rifle, I think she's on the heavy weight end of the spectrum, so perfection was not achieved! But now she's a better rifle then when it was sitting in a corner, the big old hunking BSA red dot on it, half a pound heavier and used only for pest control around the house. Thanks for listening.
 
I came to offer some advice but it looks like you already got it figured out. I was going to say that from my experience loading subsonic loads in other cases where you end up with like less that 10% case fill, I would recommend using the fastest flake type shotgun powder you can get your hands on such as 700x or bullseye. The fluffy flake type shotgun powders ignite and cleanly burn much more readily than ball powders when used with low case fills and in my experience using the fastest powder you can will give the most consistent velocity. My 300 blackout load with 700x gives like 10 FPS velocity spread over 10 rounds. I also think that a jacketed bullet meant for 223 velocities will probably give 0 expansion and will probably be very gentle on game. I don't know what your twist is but I would try a 50 grain Vmax.
 
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someguy2800 said:
I came to offer some advice but it looks like you already got it figured out. I was going to say that from my experience loading subsonic loads in other cases where you end up with like less that 10% case fill, I would recommend using the fastest flake type shotgun powder you can get your hands on such as 700x or bullseye. The fluffy flake type shotgun powders ignite and cleanly burn much more readily than ball powders when used with low case fills and in my experience using the fastest powder you can will give the most consistent velocity. My 300 blackout load with 700x gives like 10 FPS velocity spread over 10 rounds. I also think that a jacketed bullet meant for 223 velocities will probably give 0 expansion and will probably be very gentle on game. I don't know what your twist is but I would try a 50 grain Vmax.
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I think you are right. I used Unique over Bullseye just to get a little more powder in the case, Unique takes up a little more space, or better "load density". Most people do suggest Bullseye for such low velocity loads.

I agree, I'd be surprised to get any expansion. That Speer bullet I got says: "designed for the 218 Bee for deep penetration". At 942fps that should be perfect for my purposes. The twist on my rifle is 1:12, but with the bullets going into one hole, I think I'll just stick with it.

Another thing I found, about ten minutes ago, since the chronograph was already set up, and I realized my AirLite was on me, was that the .22LR loads I'm using in that, and have shot three grouse with and minimum damage, are clocking the same as the SGH load. (Small Game Hornet!) Wow that was one run-on sentence! But anyhow, I suspected that that was about what they were running out of the pistol, and figured if my velocity did not exceed that out of the rifle, I'd be good and golden. And it did. Sometimes things do go right. !!! Although, it is kind of scary that the velocity out of the Hornet, and pistol, are exactly the same.
 
Oh, uh, shucks. Thank you.

I don't know that I would want to use a Hornet on a wolf if I had other options!

BigBlue 94 said:
A couple more wild hares for you to chase... Back in the day, benjamin made air rifle pellets in 20 cal and 22 cal in a nearly hollow base wadcutter design, it just had a bit of a dome to the tip. Dunno if 22 air rifle is a .224 size or not .
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If low report/low impact is the goal, something like this 14.5 gr Umarex might work. I'd hate to mess with perfection, which it seems like this load is approaching, but it doesn't get much lower cost/easier than buying a tin of these. (If they work, of course. Might want to go back to just the primer, to try them out!) Splitting the difference would be something like these 25.6 gr Air Venturis. I'd bet they'd perform great at about 800 fps, assuming they fit tightly enough.

someguy2800 said:
II also think that a jacketed bullet meant for 223 velocities will probably give 0 expansion and will probably be very gentle on game. I don't know what your twist is but I would try a 50 grain Vmax.
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I would agree, but the cost would be significantly higher.

±+++++++++

Super neat project, thanks!

John

Edited to add: I somehow missed one of your posts. I see you already considered using just the primer and airgun pellets
 
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JShirley said:
I don't know that I would want to use a Hornet on a wolf if I had other options!
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Aha! You see, I've been using my Little Badger in the same role, taking CCI Quiets for small game, and then a fast stepping .22LR load to "discourage" larger animal attack, specifically the wolves. However, I wouldn't want to use a .22LR on a wolf it I had other options.

So the NEF in .22Hornet gives me a "better" option over the .22LR. I think the Hornet packs a good enough punch on wolves, especially at close range, which is the only range I'd shoot a woof at. That is also why I'd not use a bullet designed for the Hornet, but rather something that will penetrate well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Aha! You see, I've been using my Little Badger in the same role, taking CCI Quiets for small game, and then a fast stepping .22LR load to "discourage" larger animal attack, specifically the wolves. However, I wouldn't want to use a .22LR on a wolf it I had other options.

So the NEF in .22Hornet gives me a "better" option over the .22LR. I think the Hornet packs a good enough punch on wolves, especially at close range, which is the only range I'd shoot a woof at. That is also why I'd not use a bullet designed for the Hornet, but rather something that will penetrate well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
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If 22 savage hi power can take a 400 pound tiger, a hornet will take down a woof or similar critter just fine.

The optimum gun for this task is a 20 or 12ga with buckshot. But thats no good on small vermin, er too good... Lol. Everything is always a compromise!
 
I saw a video the other day, where a guy dropped a deer with a Hornet. And I mean dropped.

However, I would not expect a Hornet to do that, and he may have shot more than a few where they didn't drop, and deleted those! But again, I think it would be quite hard hitting on a wolf.

Bigger is always better when it comes to defense, but my guess would be that anything .22 Hornet (but not with a varmint bullet) and up is adequate for wolf.
Under 100 yards.

I'll mention again that anytime I'm packing a low powered rifle, such as the Hornet or .22LR, I've got a good side arm for that last ditch stand. But I believe that if a pack becomes too aggressive and starts to close in, if you drop one the rest will break off the attack. Especially if you manage to get the Alpha.
 
I would think that feral dogs might be a more significant threat. I defended myself and my 11-year-old son against two very large, aggressive Rottweilers that were in the front yard. (This was the same week that the woman in Tennessee was killed by several large dogs.) in any case, I will definitely agree it's good to have defensive options. I've also been coming out of the tree stand in the Georgia woods, and heard the sound of hogs rooting for acorns filling the woods all around me. I caught a glimpse of them during the day. The largest had to be around 400 lbs!

Definitely made a strong argument, for me, for both carrying a sidearm and a good light when you deer hunt.

John
 
Since you have a 12 twist barrel, I'd get some 62gr jsp bullets for your "defensive " load. They should stabilize just fine at full speed. Better penetration would be achieved I should think.

Yes the 35gr vmax is a stubby little bullet 20220126_073926.jpg
 
Larry in wyoming said:
Since you have a 12 twist barrel, I'd get some 62gr jsp bullets for your "defensive " load. They should stabilize just fine at full speed. Better penetration would be achieved I should think.

Yes the 35gr vmax is a stubby little bulletView attachment 1054980
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I usually prefer heavy bullets. I was happy that the 55's stabilized well, and in the Hornet I'm thinking that a 55grain is kind of a "sweet spot" between bullet weight and velocity. I do like the 62 grain bullets in the 5.56 over the 55's. But, I got two boxes of those 55 grain FMJ's and I think they will do well. But that is a good suggestion. And I agree, a 62 grain bullet would/should out penetrate a 55 grain bullet.

I also have some 50 grain Hornady SP-SX bullets, and a bunch of loaded rounds. They shoot well, and being designed for the faster stepping .22's I've found they have really nice controlled expansion in the hornet. I don't know yet if they shoot to the same POA as my new loads, but assume they will as there are not much if any harmonics going on in that heavy barrel and .22 Hornet velocities. !!

I considered the 35 grain because I figured it would be the most stabilized at low velocity, but with those Speer 43 grain flat points going four out of five into the same hole...I think that will work. !!!!!
 
JShirley said:
I would think that feral dogs might be a more significant threat. I defended myself and my 11-year-old son against two very large, aggressive Rottweilers that were in the front yard. (This was the same week that the woman in Tennessee was killed by several large dogs.) in any case, I will definitely agree it's good to have defensive options. I've also been coming out of the tree stand in the Georgia woods, and heard the sound of hogs rooting for acorns filling the woods all around me. I caught a glimpse of them during the day. The largest had to be around 400 lbs!

Definitely made a strong argument, for me, for both carrying a sidearm and a good light when you deer hunt.

John
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Dogs can be a problem. Up in the mountains I never see them, but around here on the state land I've seen packs. Not for a long time though. Last late hunting season, I was on an old state land logging road, and two coyotes crossed in front of me. Two minutes later I hear this loud dog-panting come up behind me, and it's some giant beast of a dog, like half bulldog half Rottweiler or something. Maybe a pinch of Pit-Bull. ! But he stopped, had no interest in me, and went wide around me. He was chasing the coyotes. But I was glad I had my 1861 Springfield rifle with me...that was one big mean looking dog. On the other hand, my sidearm was the AirLite. He looked like he could have soaked up all eight .22LR's out of that, and kept on coming.
 
Larry in wyoming said:
As good as that 46gr bullet is shooting I wouldn't change that either. I would just be so tempted with to try the 62gr soft point since that is a 12 twist. But can't ever leave good enough alone. I want to, I just CAN'T!
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I have the same disorder. I feel your pain.
 
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Progress Report: Thanks to J.Shirley, best administrator and moderator in the entire universe, bar none, who sent me some .22 Airgun slugs. Some "Rabbit Magnum II's", !!! And some RWS Superpoint "EXTRA"! Dang...he didn't have to do that. Anyhow, I loaded one in a case, just primer no powder and took a shot, and it landed way low and right. Then I loaded three up, and held my front sight up so that the base was in the rear notch, and shot these. That's not too bad for a beginning. The pellets penetrated about five paper plates and a very thick sheet of cardboard.

I'm quite sure I can figure out the hold with these, which turns the NEF into three guns in one. !! .22 Hornet, .22LR "subsonic", and Airgun. !! They are about as load as a BB gun, if that. If it were not for hearing the pellet hit the target, I would have thought it was a squib load.

There will be more experimenting to be done, but I'm pretty excited with initial results. I'm thinking that a magnum primer may be perfection.
 
Just go easy on the crimp. You don't want to Size down the skirt on those pellets to where you don't get a good seal to the bore. Fun project! You may want to use white out to paint a line on the front sight once you find the right hold.
 
Larry in wyoming said:
Just go easy on the crimp. You don't want to Size down the skirt on those pellets to where you don't get a good seal to the bore. Fun project! You may want to use white out to paint a line on the front sight once you find the right hold.
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At the moment I don't have a hand-decapper to de-cap without resizing. Have one close enough to turn down tomorrow. Not crimping on the re-sized cases, and they are going into the case really easy. On that group, I don't know if that shot out of the group of two is a flyer, or me. I was shooting sitting in a lawn chair, and using my crossed leg as a "rest". (shooting outside, from inside the patio) A little more shooting will settle that, and I'll go out back and down the hill to my bench rest.

Right now, all my cases are loaded up, except three. !!! Do'H! But that's okay, I have ten S&B's to shoot off, and Grafs has Hornet cases, been meaning to order some.

Yes a line or reference point on the front is a good trick, and I only need a tiny bit more elevation if she's grouping where those two close together are.
 
OP;

You are following the same path with the Hornet I trekked back in 1977!
I started with a H&R 158 “Handi-Rifle”. Progressed to a T/C Contender w/7.5”bbl and 3x Lobo scope, then later on to several other Hornets.

I suggest you get the Lee 50gr “Soup Can” mold. Mid South Shooters Supply used to carry it in there special order mold section. It’s almost a wadcutter design.

I abandoned the H&R because as you are finding out, the lock up is inconsistent and the stringing of shots is unavoidable. I’ve actually had several and all but a .22WMR had the stringing issue.

My Ruger M77MkII KBZ will shoot 1- hole groups at 25yds with either the Lee 55gr RFNGC or Lyman 50gr FN Semi Pointed GC over enough of a wide assortment of powders to go from near squibs to over 2100fps.
The .22Hornet will easily take down a wolf! I’ve killed over 100deer with the .22Hornet. It’s no more shot placement sensitive than a .30/30 or .243. I’ve lost more deer to marginal hits with those than the Hornet, likely because I was being more careful.

On a cull hunt, I once dropped 4 does before they figured out what was going on. Only a fifth, a yearling buck got a “pass”...

My favorite.22cal air gun pellet is the H&N “Crow Magnum” as it has a groove for crimping the case.
My cast bullets at .225” are very superior however.
Try 4.2gr of Unique or 5.6gr of #2400. Gets about 1,850fps. with 50gr bullet.
 
GooseGestapo said:
My favorite.22cal air gun pellet is the H&N “Crow Magnum”
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Those the same as the old Beeman Crow Magnum? Those were great lil pellets.

I suggested the old Benjamin pellets a while back because they were a full "soup can" cylinder with a small dome and small hollow base. Full diameter the whole length of the pellet.

Might also try some of those pellets with the plastic ballistic tip. I culled a canada goose with one once.

@Ugly Sauce you should try a magnum primer with just the pellet. Might pick up a bit of that drop in aim back up?
 
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