Small Game Loads for the SMLE

[Ugly Sauce]

I have this old SMLE. Got it for $50.00. It's a 1943 LongBranch in perfect condition. Someone down the line made a "sporter" out of it, so I just kept it for years planning to make a No.5 out of it, but never did. Anyhow, it's nice and light, seven pounds one ounce, and looks kind of like a classic English "stalking rifle" so I thought I'd add it to my exploring/trekking/hiking rifle battery.

So I loaded up some Sierra 180 grainers for it and sighted it in. I think those will put the hurt on grizz at bad breath distance, or drop a deer or elk, or even a moose if I got lost, injured, and hungry enough deep in the mountains. Also have an old box of Remington 180 grain Core-Lokt round noses, need to see if they print to the same place as the Sierras. Either one of those bullets will take care of business.

Usually, when I'm packing a stout rifle, I pair it with sidearm to take small game with. A .22, .38 Special with shot loads, .44spl with shot loads, or a .36 caliber revolver. Sometimes a M95 Nagant revolver. (super accurate with the .32ACP cylinder) But, it never hurts to have some small game loads for the rifle, right? Right!

Remembering that I had made some in the past I dug them out. They were loaded with a 120 grain gas-check cast bullet and eight grains of Unique. I shot them off and found them to be crazy accurate, and by holding the front sight up where I had a good repeatable reference point, they hit dead on at grouse and rabbit range. (10-20 yards)

All good, right? Wrong. Then I ran a few over the chronograph. Dang. 1350fps. Not so good for small game. So then I gets to thinking, about five grains of Unique is as far as I dare go down in the .303 case, but what if I loaded a 180 grain cast bullet over that five grains...would the combination of the two slow it down to 900fps or slower?

Bingo! It did. Around 830fps or so. That should work. I've heard of people in the past using a big full weight bullet at low velocity (in rifles) and getting good results on small game, as it just drills cleanly through.

One other bonus is that the 120's wouldn't feed from the magazine anyhow, no biggie, but the 180's do, so I can just carry an extra mag with the cast bullet loads in it, and just change mags if I see something small and tasty I want to shoot.

So, that's what I did today. Thanks for listening!

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Sounds like a good load! Nice looking stalking stock too.

If you want to pair the same ammo with your Nagant, you can use a .32-to-303 adapter too.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/197660
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363718612012?hash=item54af51942c:g:gIEAAOSw21ViYrvz

I reamed my Nagants' conversion cylinders to take .32 H&R to make more room for HBWC loads, but plain RN .32 bullets will usually do just fine in through .303 bore. My P14 is about the most accurate of the three I've tried:



Accuracy with .32 H&R in my Nagants is just so-so, but I don't know whether that's more down to me or the revolvers.

 

[DMW1116]

I’ve been tinkering with my 336 Marlin in 30-30 trying for basically the same thing. I’m not quite there yet but close. I have a load with W231 and a 135 grain cast RNFP that is somewhere less than 1150 fps. They shoot pretty good, holding a little over an inch out to 50 yards with peep sights. That might still be too much for squirrels or rabbits but at that range it’s a good raccoon/possum/groundhog/etc load. I still need to check for leading with this load, but if there isn’t any this will be my primary practice round.

My uncle has my grandfathers old Enfield. I’d love to get the chance to shoot some easy going cast out of it but it hasn’t been shot in a long time. It’d need a good scrub at least.

 

[792mauser]

A pinch of red-dot and a #1 buckshot pressed into the neck of a 30-30, 30-06 or 30-40 make a fine tin can plinking load at 40 feet.

 

[wiscoaster]

Nice work!!

 

[theotherwaldo]

I like to load Holy Black under paper-patched poured lead for my Lee Metford carbines, but I have never really considered making small game loads for any of my later Lees... so far.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Sounds like a good load! Nice looking stalking stock too.

If you want to pair the same ammo with your Nagant, you can use a .32-to-303 adapter too.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/197660
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363718612012?hash=item54af51942c:g:gIEAAOSw21ViYrvz

I reamed my Nagants' conversion cylinders to take .32 H&R to make more room for HBWC loads, but plain RN .32 bullets will usually do just fine in through .303 bore. My P14 is about the most accurate of the three I've tried:



Accuracy with .32 H&R in my Nagants is just so-so, but I don't know whether that's more down to me or the revolvers.

Thanks Dave. Always wanted a P14, but never ran across one. I was ready to get a .32ACP to .303 adapter, but then thought I'd see what this rifle would do with some cast bullet loads, and she sure did good. Can't imagine getting better accuracy. Getting the velocity down to 830fps is really a bonus. Exceeded my expectations.

Why the pistol I have is so accurate with the .32ACP has always been a mystery to me, as there is about a three-mile jump from the cartridge to the barrel. I did a lot of work with cast bullets in it, in 7.62X38mm cases, but not much luck. Even with light reloads, and especially full power loads, my pistol is very hard to extract fired cases. .32ACP cases drop right out of the .32 cylinder. I have also used .32-20 cases in the past without much luck on accuracy.

Anyhow, the Nagant is a nice little general purpose knock around the woods sidearm. The ACP's pop out of it at around 850fps, which is great for small game, but still enough zip and boom for putting the hurt on Mr. Wolf, or something like that. One of these days I'll try reloading the ACP with some different cast bullets, and see what I get. Don't have .32ACP dies though, at the moment. The Nagant holster is also a bonus. With that ammo pocket under the flap, it will hold a ton of ACP's, (14 7.62X38mm's). So gun and ammo is all in one "package". Reduces the amount of pouches and stuff on the pistol belt.

Another thought I've had, Is to trim some 7.62X38mm cases to where they come to exactly the length of the cylinder, but don't protrude, and then use a longer bullet like a 120 grain. That would support the bullet as it jumps from cylinder to forcing cone, and could be quite accurate. The bullet it's self could protrude from the cylinder a bit, reducing jump even further. (or lesser) Should get the FPS down even lower than 800fps maybe. (I think 750fps would be ideal for small game) At any rate, it would solve the extraction problem. On the other hand, the .32 cylinder works great. !!!?!! But always fun to experiment.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I like to load Holy Black under paper-patched poured lead for my Lee Metford carbines, but I have never really considered making small game loads for any of my later Lees... so far.

You got Lee Metford carbines?????????!!!!!!??? Dang. My passion for old military rifles began with the SMLE. I have a very modest collection, and there was a time I would have crawled three miles over broken beer bottles to get a Lee-Metford. Now of course, for me, the price would be prohibitive, to say the least. Should have done it back in the day, but I was always looking for a "deal". The deals are now gone. Even "back in the day" the Lee Metfords were $800+, when the SMLE's were going for $80.00!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I’ve been tinkering with my 336 Marlin in 30-30 trying for basically the same thing. I’m not quite there yet but close. I have a load with W231 and a 135 grain cast RNFP that is somewhere less than 1150 fps. They shoot pretty good, holding a little over an inch out to 50 yards with peep sights. That might still be too much for squirrels or rabbits but at that range it’s a good raccoon/possum/groundhog/etc load. I still need to check for leading with this load, but if there isn’t any this will be my primary practice round.

My uncle has my grandfathers old Enfield. I’d love to get the chance to shoot some easy going cast out of it but it hasn’t been shot in a long time. It’d need a good scrub at least.

The .30WCF is a nice cartridge to work with, with reduced and cast bullet loads. The small case capacity really helps, compared to bigger cases like the .303, .30US, 7.92X57mm, etc. I've done tons of fiddling with the .30-30 and cast bullets. RL7 works well for hotter loads, 170-180 grain bullets at around 1600fps. Of course for small game I've found that one wants something at 900fps or less, and the small case delivers that with small charges of Unique, or other fast burning powders. Unique and Bullseye is what I've got "in stock" so that what I use. But of course there are others that would produce those low velocities.

 

[theotherwaldo]

You got Lee Metford carbines?????????!!!!!!??? Dang. My passion for old military rifles began with the SMLE. I have a very modest collection, and there was a time I would have crawled three miles over broken beer bottles to get a Lee-Metford. Now of course, for me, the price would be prohibitive, to say the least. Should have done it back in the day, but I was always looking for a "deal". The deals are now gone. Even "back in the day" the Lee Metfords were $800+, when the SMLE's were going for $80.00!

Yeah, but Bubba got to them first.
They stuck side-mount scopes on both of them and totally messed up the rear hole on both.
Functional Burris scopes on wobbly mounts.
That's why I got both for $350

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Another thought I've had, Is to trim some 7.62X38mm cases to where they come to exactly the length of the cylinder, but don't protrude, and then use a longer bullet like a 120 grain. That would support the bullet as it jumps from cylinder to forcing cone, and could be quite accurate. The bullet it's self could protrude from the cylinder a bit, reducing jump even further. (or lesser) Should get the FPS down even lower than 800fps maybe. (I think 750fps would be ideal for small game) At any rate, it would solve the extraction problem. On the other hand, the .32 cylinder works great. !!!?!! But always fun to experiment.

I've been using shortened PPU Nagant brass to make my 7.5x23mm Swiss revolver fodder, and the shorter Swiss rounds work about equally well in the original Nagant gas seal cylinder too. Brass is considerably shorter than what you have in mind though -- if you try the flush trimmed brass, let me know how it works out.

 

[Officers'Wife]

You have an extra Enfield magazine?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

You have an extra Enfield magazine?

Yep. They are all in other rifles, but all I have to do is pull 'em out and load them up, and take them with me. But for hiking/trekking/exploring, or even hunting I think just one additional magazine will suffice. Buying extra mags would certainly be expensive these days. No, don't have any to sell if that's what you mean.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

if you try the flush trimmed brass, let me know how it works out.

I think I'll do that in the near future. Now that I'm done fooling with the .303, .22 Hornet, and 7.7, I'll need something to occupy my mind, and I haven't messed with the M95 Nagant for quite some time. But a quick check on the primer supply indicates I'm low on small pistol primers. Dang it. Perhaps I can find some locally if I search hard.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yeah, but Bubba got to them first.
They stuck side-mount scopes on both of them and totally messed up the rear hole on both.
Functional Burris scopes on wobbly mounts.
That's why I got both for $350

Wow. Bugging up a Lee Metford. Hopefully Bubba and his cousin received life sentences without parole. What a shame. Well I hope you can or did something to restore them to some kind of something to halfway resemble a LEE-Metford carbine, even if it's of your own creation if not a resemblance to an actual original piece. Shame shame shame on Bubba. One thing to Bubba a run of the mill milsurp, but a...choke...gag...cry...choke Lee-Metford. Double Dang. Triple Dang. Quadra-Dang.

What is..."the rear hole"?? (no snide comments you yay-hoos listening in!) (I know, how can you resist?)

 

[theotherwaldo]

I think that, in this case, Bubba was a vaquero on the King Ranch who committed his crimes long ago to provide guide rifles for the big game hunters of almost a century ago.
These sad messes are almost historic, in their own way... .
I picked up later Lee Enfields from the same source, although the butchery was a bit better performed.
Practice makes neater messes, I suppose,

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'd sure like to see pictures of those messes. Perhaps they were traded to the Comancheros for women and whiskey.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Oh.
And the rear hole is the after-most mounting hole for the side mount.
These holes are utterly ragged on both of these guns.
The No.3 Mk.1* and No.4 Mk.1/2 (F) are much better done.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I'd sure like to see pictures of those messes. Perhaps they were traded to the Comancheros for women and whiskey.

I'm minimizing the gun pics that I put on the net because I'm tired of finding my guns for sale by scammers.
I'm only using a few of my old, low quality pics that are already out there.

And I got these guns off of the discount rack of my LGS, Glick Twins of Pharr, Texas, who probably got them straight from the source half a century ago.

Everybody should drive the back roads around the King Ranch at least once, BTW.
It's wild to go around a bend and see a lion playing gotcha with the cars as they go by or to realize that those really are giraffes browsing through the mesquite trees... .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

And I got these guns off of the discount rack of my LGS, Glick Twins of Pharr, Texas, who probably got them straight from the source half a century ago.

Oh...so they ARE Comanchero guns!!!

 

[theotherwaldo]

Well, I guess that some of the vaqueros may have been Comanches.
Then again, so are a lot of my co-workers.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

if you try the flush trimmed brass, let me know how it works out.

Hey Dave, I just got done trimming some 7.62X38mm cases (12) down to flush with the recessed portion of the cylinder. Turned out an easy job, used a LEE case trimmer with a .30 carbine gauge in it, and chucked it in the drill press. When I get done I'll write the whole experiment up, but my goal is to run a 120 grain bullet at about 800fps. The other goal is accuracy at least on par with the .32ACP loads. My idea is that the longer 120 will be well supported into the forcing cone and beyond. As the world has survived with most other revolvers with a barrel cylinder gap, I'm not concerned with that, especially at the price of difficult extraction. !!! Will a 120 stabilize? We'll see! If not, I can go down in weight. I know that 110 grain bullets work/stabilize. So, another adventure.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Hey Dave, I just got done trimming some 7.62X38mm cases (12) down to flush with the recessed portion of the cylinder. Turned out an easy job, used a LEE case trimmer with a .30 carbine gauge in it, and chucked it in the drill press. When I get done I'll write the whole experiment up, but my goal is to run a 120 grain bullet at about 800fps. The other goal is accuracy at least on par with the .32ACP loads. My idea is that the longer 120 will be well supported into the forcing cone and beyond. As the world has survived with most other revolvers with a barrel cylinder gap, I'm not concerned with that, especially at the price of difficult extraction. !!! Will a 120 stabilize? We'll see! If not, I can go down in weight. I know that 110 grain bullets work/stabilize. So, another adventure.

Cool! If you've got some Trail Boss, my guess is that a case full should get you in the 800 fps neighborhood.

I just finished shortening a batch of 100 9x23 .38 ACP/Super cases into 9x20 Browning Long using a Lyman trimmer with the drill attachment. Took about two hours, followed by another hour in the wet tumbler to remove all the brass grit from inside the cases.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'd like to try Trail Boss, but all I've got for pistols (other than heavy magnum loads) is pretty much unique, bullseye and blue dot. But Unique seems to work well in everything.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Okay, can't wait to write this whole thing up. I loaded up eight rounds with the 120 grain bullet over 2 grains of unique. I fired one off just to make sure the gun wasn't going to blow up (!!!!) or squib, and she went off real nice. No sticking of the brass in the cylinder. All the rounds chambered nice. Mild, but not too mild. Might have hit the nail on the head with the two-grains. Blind luck. Don't know if the bullet tumbled, but we'll find out tomorrow. And fire a group. Shot a "control" group with the 32ACP cylinder today, nice and tight with one flyer. As it was a good typical group with the ACP cylinder, all I have to do is equal it.