30-30 and HiTek coated

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Bearded Phil

Bearded Phil

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Hey Folks, looking for just a little input from the group here. I'm getting into 30-30 Win and I'll be using SNS 158gr coated bullets to start and probably cast coated in general and I'm wondering how fast y'all have pushed non gas checked coated in .30 cal before.

SNS generally advises 1700 FPS and under with their rifle bullets though I've pushed their .38 cal pistol to 1600 with no problems and they say to keep those under 1500 FPS. (no leading problems, that is).

I'm not trying to speed demon and will be looking for best accuracy as is my MO but I am curious as to other's experiences with cast coated rifle at higher speeds and where ceiling seemed to be before performance issues.

Starting out I'll probably go in half grain increments of I4198 starting at 18.0 and ending at 19.5, 5rd each charge and chrono and shoot for accuracy at 50yrd. According to Lyman Cast #4 the starting 18.0gr should be somewhere around 1600 FPS and doing some math a 1gr increment theoretically should be about 60-70 FPS per grain added.

I don't think I'll get the same velocity as them since they used a 24" barrel universal receiver and my Henry is a 20" but we shall see.

Anywho, any thoughts or input are appreciated, or barring that, lets talk about 30-30 with cast bullets a bit :).
 
I've pushed Quality Cast 150gr. RNFP-GC Hi-Tek coated to 1900fps out of a Marlin 336 and they're as accurate as any Core-Lokt, don't lead but do leave a kind of a funky bronze-colored sheen in the bore. Hoppe's takes it out easily.

I'd say follow the manufacturer's suggestions and keep it under 1700fps but that's just me being conservative. Quality Cast doesn't list a max velocity for their GC-Rifle bullets. They just say to use standard cast bullet data, which means stick to lubed lead bullet velocities.
 
Well my chrono battery died after my first 10rd of 30-30. At 18.0gr of I4198 was giving me ~1550 FPS so there's room to play.

The real problem is that with these SNS 158gr coated 30-30 bullets my rifle shoots more like a shotgun at 50yrds. I'm going to try another bullet first before I contact Henry about it but I'm not super hopeful. Pretty lousy day at the range on the 30-30 front today :thumbdown:


30-30 Shoots Like Shotgun

30-30 Shoots Like Shotgun

 
What pistol powder do you use? Depending which one it is. You can isolate whether the bullet will shoot.
I went circles with a 308 trying to shoot coated using rifle powders.
To get up to 2000 fps I used imr4227. But accuracy dropped to 1.5-2 inches.
If I was content with 12-1600. I could get consistent groups of 3/4-1".
 
Bfh_auto said:
What pistol powder do you use? Depending which one it is. You can isolate whether the bullet will shoot.
I went circles with a 308 trying to shoot coated using rifle powders.
Click to expand...

I used I4198 but I have I4227 I can try which I might give a go. Were the cast coated bullets you were shooting also not gas checked?

AJC1 said:
It's not impossible... I bought 2 federal 150s last week.... it's definitely possible, it's not the pick the bullet and weight you want affair currently.
Click to expand...

This is true, last night I got some 150gr and 170gr PowerShock right from Federal Premium's website and some Win 170gr something or other from Bass Pro while getting some Hornady 150gr RN Interlock to try.

King Medallion said:
Maybe I missed it, but have you slugged the bore?
Click to expand...

No, not yet. I need to go out and grab the right sized dowel if I want to do that test.
 
Bearded Phil said:
I used I4198 but I have I4227 I can try which I might give a go. Were the cast coated bullets you were shooting also not gas checked?

Mine were 165 grain and 245grain plain base.
I was hoping you had something between bullseye and unique for burn rate.
IMR4227 is definitely a good cast bullet powder though.

This is true, last night I got some 150gr and 170gr PowerShock right from Federal Premium's website and some Win 170gr something or other from Bass Pro while getting some Hornady 150gr RN Interlock to try.



No, not yet. I need to go out and grab the right sized dowel if I want to do that test.
Click to expand...
 
Not SNS 158's, but, Missouri 165gr rnfp coated loaded with 9.0gr Unique and some loaded with IMR SR 4759 powder. The Unique load is getting right 1325 mv with decent accuracy at 50-75 yards. Haven't tried the 4759 loads yet. Looking forward to those. Hope you get it worked out.
 
Bearded Phil said:
I used I4198 but I have I4227 I can try which I might give a go. Were the cast coated bullets you were shooting also not gas checked?



This is true, last night I got some 150gr and 170gr PowerShock right from Federal Premium's website and some Win 170gr something or other from Bass Pro while getting some Hornady 150gr RN Interlock to try.



No, not yet. I need to go out and grab the right sized dowel if I want to do that test.
Click to expand...
Please do not use a wood dowel for slugging the bore. Brass or aluminum rod is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better option.
 
I have never use SNS bullets and I find a 158gr 30/30 bullet a little strange.

Have you use their bullets before? What is the bullet diameter?

I use 165gr coated .309" bullets from Missouri Bullets with great success. I used to use 4198 but now use nothing but AA5744. I really like that powder for cast rifle bullets loads, coated or not.

Have you used those bullets in other rifles before?
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I have never use SNS bullets and I find a 158gr 30/30 bullet a little strange.

Have you use their bullets before? What is the bullet diameter?

I use 165gr coated .309" bullets from Missouri Bullets with great success. I used to use 4198 but now use nothing but AA5744. I really like that powder for cast rifle bullets loads, coated or not.

Have you used those bullets in other rifles before?
Click to expand...

I've used their other bullets but not for 30-30. The 158gr 30-30 are .309 dia, roundish? base. Not quite bevel and not quite plain.

I've used their .38 cal for 357 mag with I4227 all the way up to about 1550 FPS in my Henry with good accuracy (for open sights). I've also used their 405gr for 45-70 though with that I don't take them up too fast just to save my shoulder, 1200 FPS and under generally.

With Missouri's 165gr and I4198 what's your velocity? or with 5744 if that's more handy. I ordered some of those to try. With the SNS I started at 18.0gr and got 1550 FPS like I said and even there they didn't shoot with any sort of grouping form at all. I'm wondering if I just need to run non GC slower, or maybe with my I4227.
 
Bearded Phil said:
.......
With Missouri's 165gr and I4198 what's your velocity? or with 5744 if that's more handy. I ordered some of those to try. With the SNS I started at 18.0gr and got 1550 FPS like I said and even there they didn't shoot with any sort of grouping form at all. I'm wondering if I just need to run non GC slower, or maybe with my I4227.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I never did send any of my 30/30 loads over the chronograph. I usually only test handgun velocities and I did my 30-06 loads to set up a drop chart for hunting. Since I rarely use a levergun out past 80-100 yards I didn't worry about the velocity. The Lyman #50 lists max loads of both powders @ just over 2000 fps but as we know the velocity listed in the recipes are usually unrealistic. The coating makes the bullets as strong or stronger than linotype cast bullets from what I've read. (22+ BHN) As long as the bullets fit the barrel correctly there should not be a problem. Any leading in the barrel?

I really don't think you need to lower the velocities. Again, are you getting any leading in your barrel? I think you can push Hi-Tek 2 coating to 2000+ fps without a problem.

Sorry I can't give you numbers...
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I'm sorry but I never did send any of my 30/30 loads over the chronograph. I usually only test handgun velocities and I did my 30-06 loads to set up a drop chart for hunting. Since I rarely use a levergun out past 80-100 yards I didn't worry about the velocity. The Lyman #50 lists max loads of both powders @ just over 2000 fps but as we know the velocity listed in the recipes are usually unrealistic. The coating makes the bullets as strong or stronger than linotype cast bullets from what I've read. (22+ BHN) As long as the bullets fit the barrel correctly there should not be a problem. Any leading in the barrel?

I really don't think you need to lower the velocities. Again, are you getting any leading in your barrel? I think you can push Hi-Tek 2 coating to 2000+ fps without a problem.

Sorry I can't give you numbers...
Click to expand...

That's ok! I cleaned my barrel today and didn't get any shiny lead coming out, just powder and coating gunk. Nothing abnormal to what I see when cleaning my 357 and 45-70 after shooting cast hitek.
 
Bearded Phil said:
Well my chrono battery died after my first 10rd of 30-30. At 18.0gr of I4198 was giving me ~1550 FPS so there's room to play.

The real problem is that with these SNS 158gr coated 30-30 bullets my rifle shoots more like a shotgun at 50yrds. I'm going to try another bullet first before I contact Henry about it but I'm not super hopeful. Pretty lousy day at the range on the 30-30 front today :thumbdown:


30-30 Shoots Like Shotgun

30-30 Shoots Like Shotgun

Click to expand...
Try a heavier bullet like a 170 or 200 grainer that might shrink your group.
 
ms6852 said:
Try a heavier bullet like a 170 or 200 grainer that might shrink your group.
Click to expand...

I'm getting some MBC 165gr nominal to try out. I'm not casting myself yet so I'm at the availability of commercial cast availability. Do you have a source for 170gr - 200gr 30-30 that I could check out?
 
Bearded Phil said:
I'm getting some MBC 165gr nominal to try out. I'm not casting myself yet so I'm at the availability of commercial cast availability. Do you have a source for 170gr - 200gr 30-30 that I could check out?
Click to expand...
Try bumping your powder charge. Or go to a fast powder just to see if you can get accuracy even if it's at a low velocity. I don't foresee just changing bullets that are the same diameter being the only problem.
 
Bearded Phil said:
I'm getting some MBC 165gr nominal to try out. I'm not casting myself yet so I'm at the availability of commercial cast availability. Do you have a source for 170gr - 200gr 30-30 that I could check out?
Click to expand...
Normally I cast my own bullets for the 30-30. A couple of years ago I had bought a few thousand bullets from Missouri Bullet Company and from Buffalo arms company. These are two good sources I have done business with also Summit City bullets.

I don't really know if they have anything in stock but these are good places to start.
 
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