HiTek Coated vs Lubed velocity drop?

[3Crows]

Quick question. I have never had HiTek bullets until now. These are MBC #1 Large Buff 405 grain. I have been shooting their #1 Large Buff HCL lubed 405 grain but no coating.

Everything the same except as noted:

H4198 32.0 grains lubed but uncoated I get 1420 fps

H4198 32.5 grains HiTek coated I get 1390 fps

Is the drop in velocity despite a small bump in charge due to the HiTek bullets having more drag in the barrel compared to the normal lubed in grooves bullets?

I would not normally think too much of it except that I bumped the charge weight up .5 grains. Just not what I expected, though either load would drop a large buffalo .

 

[.45Coltguy]

I can only offer this: In my .45 Colt lever gun, I saw no change in MV between plain cast or coated cast MBC 250gr rnfp. All at 1060-1070 fps MV over the screens.
8.0gr Unique.

 

[3Crows]

I maybe sometimes not so smart but I suspect there was a difference. I may not have been as level and straight to the sensors. Thus the bullet took a longer path. Still ???? I was not off that much. I would have thought the .5 grains increase would have compensated.

 

[.45Coltguy]

I maybe sometimes not so smart but I suspect there was a difference. I may not have been as level and straight to the sensors. Thus the bullet took a longer path. Still ???? I was not off that much. I would have thought the .5 grains increase would have compensated.

Yeah, would have thought the same thing. Maybe a retry.

 

[Gone Hiking]

You'll have to work up a load with different charges to get the full picture. I have noticed that in some cases, additional powder (over a certain span) decreases velocities before they pick up again.

 

[Blue68f100]

Different shooting conditions can change it that much and more.

Did you shoot the loads at the same time?

 

[3Crows]

Different shooting conditions can change it that much and more.

Did you shoot the loads at the same time?

No not at the same time. But similar conditions and on my home range

 

[fxvr5]

They need to be shot at the same time before you can conclude anything.

 

[lordpaxman]

I haven’t measured rifle rounds, but in pistol I saw no measurable difference between lubed lead and coated.
Did you measure, and were the bullets the same diameter and weight?
I’ve read where how you hold your rifle can affect MV. Ideally the rifle is in a sled which takes the human out of the equation.
The other question I’d have is what are the statistics for your measurements? There may be more overlap in MV than you think.

 

[Rule3]

How many of each did you test to get results,?? Why use different powder charge ? .5 gr in a 30 grain charge is not gonna change much either way?

Data! we must have data, charts and graphs!

 

[3Crows]

All bullets are the MBC #1 Large Buffalo 405 grain as per Post #1. The chrono is a basic Caldwell. I used the same Lyman digital powder scale and equipment. The only thing that changed is that I have been slowly working my load up in .5 increments towards 1450 fps. The temperature and conditions were the same outside and my loading equipment is in the basement where the temperature remains pretty much the same all the time.

I loaded 10 of each and I now am out of the MBC HCL lubed bullets and only have the HiTek coated version. I was getting to the bottom of the box and thus ordered in the HiTek bullet. They are all listed as .459 diameter and my measurements confirm they are consistent in that regard as were the previous lubed version. The rifle is a new GBL Marlin.

The listed velocities are an average of the 10 each velocity with a spread for both of nearly 30 fps. There was some overlap. As I said, I am trying to work my loads up, incrementally. I was not expecting a difference in the velocity due to the coating vs lubed so I just continued with my load development to the next .5 increment.

My equipment is fairly basic Lee Classic Turret and single stage. I dip to the pan and then trickle up to the weight I want. I think I need to check my scale against my other digital scale and against my Lyman balance beam scale to see if I am truly getting consistent loads.

 

[EricBu]

Quick question. I have never had HiTek bullets until now. These are MBC #1 Large Buff 405 grain. I have been shooting their #1 Large Buff HCL lubed 405 grain but no coating.

Everything the same except as noted:

H4198 32.0 grains lubed but uncoated I get 1420 fps

H4198 32.5 grains HiTek coated I get 1390 fps

Is the drop in velocity despite a small bump in charge due to the HiTek bullets having more drag in the barrel compared to the normal lubed in grooves bullets?

I would not normally think too much of it except that I bumped the charge weight up .5 grains. Just not what I expected, though either load would drop a large buffalo .

That narrow of a difference could be caused by sooooo many factors. Weather, time of day, temperature, distance from the chrony, conditions when you created the loads.......it could be the difference between coated and uncoated.......could be a hundred other things 30 fps is a very minor difference at 1400 fps, and is easily within the expected statistical variance of a 20 shot string of mixed head stamp 45-70 reloads.

 

[3Crows]

That narrow of a difference could be caused by sooooo many factors. Weather, time of day, temperature, distance from the chrony, conditions when you created the loads.......it could be the difference between coated and uncoated.......could be a hundred other things 30 fps is a very minor difference at 1400 fps, and is easily within the expected statistical variance of a 20 shot string of mixed head stamp 45-70 reloads.

Thanks. I am using Starline Brass and CCI primers. I try to keep things consistent but the little things make a difference. If this endeavor were easy everybody would be master reloaders, which I most definitely am not .

 

[fxvr5]

you might find this article of interest;

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

 

[3Crows]

you might find this article of interest;

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

Thanks I had read that site. I did note they mentioned a lower velocity with the coated but these were for pistols. I thought perhaps that with a rifle the difference might be greater. I suppose to put this to rest for my curiosity I will need to load at the same time coated and uncoated otherwise identical bullets and loads and then shoot them together over the chrono. Which means I might need to order some more uncoated unless I can rustle up a few from the bottom of the box, I may have about twenty left.

I hate to lead my barrel up because the coated bullets seem to be shooting clean save for a very slight streak of lead along the edge (driving side) of the lands. The uncoated bullets were leaving a smear of lead in my barrel, particularly the last couple of inches. The coated bullets seem much better in that regard.

 

[fxvr5]

I suppose to put this to rest for my curiosity I will need to load at the same time coated and uncoated otherwise identical bullets and loads and then shoot them together over the chrono.

Yes.

 

[AJC1]

Thanks I had read that site. I did note they mentioned a lower velocity with the coated but these were for pistols. I thought perhaps that with a rifle the difference might be greater. I suppose to put this to rest for my curiosity I will need to load at the same time coated and uncoated otherwise identical bullets and loads and then shoot them together over the chrono. Which means I might need to order some more uncoated unless I can rustle up a few from the bottom of the box, I may have about twenty left.

I hate to lead my barrel up because the coated bullets seem to be shooting clean save for a very slight streak of lead along the edge (driving side) of the lands. The uncoated bullets were leaving a smear of lead in my barrel, particularly the last couple of inches. The coated bullets seem much better in that regard.

You may tumble lube the test batch and avoid the scrub a thon. I would expect a small reduction based on the lubrisity between the two samples. Lubed lead has the best lubrisity and least resistance of any configuration. The compromise of a few fps to reduce or eliminate leading seems well worth it imo.

 

[Lafitte]

The bullets were probably not all cast from the same melt.
Lafitte

 

[3Crows]

Thanks all. It will be a bit before I can return to the experiment due to the Christmas season and poor weather. But today I did manage a quick comparison of some loaded with 13.0 grains of Trail Boss. Same brass, same can of powder, same CCI primers. The only difference was 405 grain lubed HCL and 405 grains HiTek coated. I fired ten rounds of each. The velocity average was 1091 for the HiTek and 1101 for the lubed. In other words, no real difference. Back during the summer I was getting an average of 1050 fps for the same 13.0 grains of TB and the lubed #1 Large Buff 405 grain bullets. But that was a different batch of loads.

So I am of the mind now that there might be a very slight difference with the HiTek coated bullets being ever so slightly less fps for an equal load but the difference is of no consequence. What I am seeing thus far is no smears of lead in my barrel.

 

[__steve__]

Have any more lubed MB left? Loading another batch (keeping all variables same, including session of loading and shooting) will be the only way to conclude anything.

Would be very interesting experiment if you follow through with it

I have loaded both lubed and HyTek MB for their 400 gr .5” crushers. Unfortunately I have no chrongraphical data to share (yet) but I noticed they both have good levels of accuracy. The difference I noticed with the HyTek variant is that it requires additional precision in bullet seating and crimp, just one small breach of that coating by accidentally scraping some off, at H110 pressures, resulted in powder blasting my face and huge clouds of polymerized lead (Image above )

 

[3Crows]

Have any more lubed MB left? Loading another batch (keeping all variables same, including session of loading and shooting) will be the only way to conclude anything.

Would be very interesting experiment if you follow through

I have about 20 lubed left for this purpose. I have set them aside. It will be after the holidays.

 

[gwpercle]

The only thing I might question is was the temperatures about the same when each load was tested .

A fellow tested some loads on a cold day ... 47 degrees and got a 100 fps drop in velocity !
Were both loads tested on the same day with same temperature ?

If powder coating causes a drop in velocity ... the powder coaters over at Cast Boolits don't avertise that fact ... they claim Powder Coating cures leading , heales the sick , can raise the dead and solve Global Warming and Climate Change ... they don't say nothing about lowering velocities !
Gary

 

[3Crows]

The only thing I might question is was the temperatures about the same when each load was tested .

A fellow tested some loads on a cold day ... 47 degrees and got a 100 fps drop in velocity !
Were both loads tested on the same day with same temperature ?

Yes, the results from my first posting where not the same day but very similar conditions. The Trail Boss results just reported where same time, same place and same station .

 

[3Crows]

View attachment 1122149 Have any more lubed MB left? Loading another batch (keeping all variables same, including session of loading and shooting) will be the only way to conclude anything.

Would be very interesting experiment if you follow through with it

I have loaded both lubed and HyTek MB for their 400 gr .5” crushers. Unfortunately I have no chrongraphical data to share (yet) but I noticed they both have good levels of accuracy. The difference I noticed with the HyTek variant is that it requires additional precision in bullet seating and crimp, just one small breach of that coating by accidentally scraping some off, at H110 pressures, resulted in powder blasting my face and huge clouds of polymerized lead (Image above )

Nice fireball!

I use the Lee FCD as I am shooting these in a tubular magazine. I put a definite crimp but not excessive. It is a concern that I might damage the coating. But so is having my bullets set back which did happen when I first started reloading .45-70 for a Marlin lever gun.

 

[AJC1]

This is a comparison of pc vs traditional. This is the last in the series for those who just want the final finish ta da....