Here We Go Again 1994 Redux

starnbar said:

Yeah but you are talking about a rifle stock not a part of the firing mechanism

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The whole rationale of Trump's bump stock ban was that the stock, in effect, converted a semiautomatic into a machine gun. Since these items were not registered by May 19, 1986, the Hughes Amendment meant that they were absolutely banned. This proposed bill would negate the Hughes Amendment!

The NFA ruling is “shoot more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.” A federal permit and registration are required to own a machine gun made prior a bump stock is not capable of the definition of a single function of the trigger (meaning depressed and held down).

starnbar said:

a bump stock is not capable of the definition of a single function of the trigger (meaning depressed and held down).

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The ATF (at the prompting of the Trump administration) disagrees with you. They held (reversing their earlier position) that bump stocks are machine guns. (Or, more properly, that bump stocks are devices designed to convert semis into machine guns. Same thing.)

Not gonna argue but depress and hold the trigger down on a semi with a bump stock tell me how many shots you get. What no disconnector?

Pat Riot said:

Got nothing good to say so I will just post what passes for a featureless non-assault weapon in California.

My AR:
View attachment 1081973

No flash hider
No pistol grip
No bayonet lug
No “bullet button”
Working magazine release
10 round mag inserted
Shoots and operated like any other AR

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It won’t be popular opinion but I’ve always liked the way those types of rifles looked. I’d almost buy one here in SC if they were cheaper.

All it takes is a few RINOs in danger of losing re election to vote for sweeping, damaging gun control. We cannot count on courts to save gun rights at the last minute. The bill has to die before it even gets debated. Write your Congress critters. And if you already did, do it again.

The "bump stock as a machine gun" is a legal concept. Like many legal concepts, it is "notional" and does not necessarily have any connection with reality. There's no use in arguing technical facts.

"Notional concepts" can also be used to our advantage. My favorite is the notional concept of a "militia." Some people insist that the militia is the National Guard, or even the militia as defined in 10 U.S.C. section 246. However, the "notional" concept of the militia, as evidenced by plenty of writings by the Founders, is that it includes practically everybody. Carried to its logical conclusion, this means that if the Militia Clause of the 2nd Amendment is given due weight, everybody (as an individual) is entitled to the same weapons that the standing army uses. (This is basically the opposite of what the Heller opinion contended.)

DMW1116 said:

It won’t be popular opinion but I’ve always liked the way those types of rifles looked. I’d almost buy one here in SC if they were cheaper.

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As soon as I leave California it’s getting a proper stock and grip.
Thordson makes those stocks if you’re interested. They are actually pretty nice if shooting from a bench.

A little read of the tea leaves and my guess is that they will be all in and double down. They cannot lose anymore public opinion it’s already in the gutter. They know they only have control until the midterms and will do whatever they can do knowing full well they won’t see control for another 20 years. Even Rhinos get this.

jdc1244 said:

There’s no political will in Congress for a new AWB.

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They are full of bluster, and will wax histrionic no end. Which is mostly all for show.
Politically, they know that being re-elected is the key thing.
Far too many of them are perfectly "happy" with proposing all manner of radical legislation, and blaming their opponents for not being able to deliver what every "gimme" that was, to the given audience.

And, far too many of them are as attracted to a camera as a moth to a flame.

Which bodes not well for we in the firearms community.

Most gun owners - no matter How they vote - realize that the long-sought goal of gradually destroying the Sec. Amendment is the Actual agenda.

And the national news sound bytes are not only deceptive, but a distraction from what numerous state Legislatures are committed to doing, based upon past actions.

If people Allow any of this to really trouble them, unnecessary worry will be the only result.

CapnMac: I posted my comments and then read yours.
You always seem to be able to detach yourself from the issues, which lets you remain objective.

D.B. Cooper said:

Oh, I totally agree, but, I expect politicians in Congress, who have long run on pro-2A positions, are about to sell us up the river. If that happens, we should at least get something in return.

And it needs to be like for like in terms of significance. If people like Dan Crenshaw, Trump, and the NRA are going to stick us with something like Red Flag laws, then we need something equally significant, such repeal of the Gun Free Zones Act (or the GCA or the NFA - we all have different priorities.)

But, certainly, my preference is for a restoration of the Constitution and not just in regards to the 2nd Amendment.

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re: Dan Crenshaw, Trump, NRA et al; OK, but WE as a group have repeatedly thrown them under the bus (especially 'al')

Generational Disarmament.

I am not buying for myself, I am buying for my kid and grandkids and great grandkids.

-Stan

AlexanderA said:

The "bump stock as a machine gun" is a legal concept. Like many legal concepts, it is "notional" and does not necessarily have any connection with reality. There's no use in arguing technical facts.

"Notional concepts" can also be used to our advantage. My favorite is the notional concept of a "militia." Some people insist that the militia is the National Guard, or even the militia as defined in 10 U.S.C. section 246. However, the "notional" concept of the militia, as evidenced by plenty of writings by the Founders, is that it includes practically everybody. Carried to its logical conclusion, this means that if the Militia Clause of the 2nd Amendment is given due weight, everybody (as an individual) is entitled to the same weapons that the standing army uses. (This is basically the opposite of what the Heller opinion contended.)

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That's exactly what it means and no infringements because they knew this slow death of the 2nd would happen

AlexanderA said:

If there's any kind of AWB (which I don't think will happen), it may well come via some sort of tinkering with the NFA. (There is, in fact, a bill pending before Congress that would add bump stocks as an NFA category akin to machine guns, but would grandfather existing ones by allowing them to be registered.) I see an opening here that could see the end of the Hughes Amendment.

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Any existing ones were already supposed to have been destroyed when Trump’s ban took effect. I wouldn’t be the first person in line to grandfather an existing one.

D.B. Cooper said:

Jared just dropped this video. Long story short, it's the entire wish list short of an actual AWB Ban. Bans on magazines over 5 rounds, FRTs, Bump Stocks, 80% guns, safe storage, etc. Expected to be voted out of committee within days.

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Count me out, I have been an active firearm owner for over 40 years. I have always obeyed all laws pertaining to my owning, using and carrying said firearms. I have been a member of the High Road for many, many years and now, as with the NRA, I QUIT!
We had two more mass shootings in the past 2 days!!! The one at the Tulsa hospital and now another new one today, (6/2/22) in Southern Wisconsin. I have read this entire thread here and didn't see one constructive suggestion as to a resolution to the problems we face. I have no problem in complying with the potential new regulations that may come out of this mess. Apologies to those shooters that perhaps, like me are realists, and realize that something has to change. Yes I will carry on shooting my substantial collection of firearms for hunting and for competitive target shooting and yes, I will continue carrying my sidearms with the licenses I have obtained for legal carry! I had no problem with obtaining the CCW permits and have carried for over 38 years.
I cannot go on reading the tone of the current posts and request the ADMINS remove me from the High Road. I will miss the reloading section etc., But I cannot, and will not be party, to discussions like this. We should be looking and working jointly with positive suggestions to what is a very real problem facing the USA! How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!

exbrit49 said:

Count me out, I have been an active firearm owner for over 40 years. I have always obeyed all laws pertaining to my owning, using and carrying said firearms. I have been a member of the High Road for many, many years and now, as with the NRA, I QUIT!
We had two more mass shootings in the past 2 days!!! The one at the Tulsa hospital and now another new one today, (6/2/22) in Southern Wisconsin. I have read this entire thread here and didn't see one constructive suggestion as to a resolution to the problems we face. I have no problem in complying with the potential new regulations that may come out of this mess. Apologies to those shooters that perhaps, like me are realists, and realize that something has to change. Yes I will carry on shooting my substantial collection of firearms for hunting and for competitive target shooting and yes, I will continue carrying my sidearms with the licenses I have obtained for legal carry! I had no problem with obtaining the CCW permits and have carried for over 38 years.
I cannot go on reading the tone of the current posts and request the ADMINS remove me from the High Road. I will miss the reloading section etc., But I cannot, and will not be party, to discussions like this. We should be looking and working jointly with positive suggestions to what is a very real problem facing the USA! How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!

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Meltdown much? You’re in touch with the emotional side of the argument. The mental health of heavily medicated people along with social media and addiction to devices and no family pretty much sums up the problem. Politicians are trying to capitalize on mental instability to disarm the public. The shooting in Uvalde was handled so badly and could’ve been stopped several different ways. It’s almost like they stood by and just let it happen. Either way, the antis will not let a crisis go to waste.

exbrit49 said:

Count me out, I have been an active firearm owner for over 40 years. I have always obeyed all laws pertaining to my owning, using and carrying said firearms. I have been a member of the High Road for many, many years and now, as with the NRA, I QUIT!
We had two more mass shootings in the past 2 days!!! The one at the Tulsa hospital and now another new one today, (6/2/22) in Southern Wisconsin. I have read this entire thread here and didn't see one constructive suggestion as to a resolution to the problems we face. I have no problem in complying with the potential new regulations that may come out of this mess. Apologies to those shooters that perhaps, like me are realists, and realize that something has to change. Yes I will carry on shooting my substantial collection of firearms for hunting and for competitive target shooting and yes, I will continue carrying my sidearms with the licenses I have obtained for legal carry! I had no problem with obtaining the CCW permits and have carried for over 38 years.
I cannot go on reading the tone of the current posts and request the ADMINS remove me from the High Road. I will miss the reloading section etc., But I cannot, and will not be party, to discussions like this. We should be looking and working jointly with positive suggestions to what is a very real problem facing the USA! How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!

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What needs to change is focusing on the people that do these terrible crimes. Focus on guns will never ever do anything to keep it from happening. We already have over 22,000 firearms laws. So your solution is to give in on more laws that will do nothing and just get us closer to the governments agenda which is to rule us.

Hartkopf said:

Meltdown much? You’re in touch with the emotional side of the argument. The mental health of heavily medicated people along with social media and addiction to devices and no family pretty much sums up the problem. Politicians are trying to capitalize on mental instability to disarm the public. The shooting in Uvalde was handled so badly and could’ve been stopped several different ways. It’s almost like they stood by and just let it happen. Either way, the antis will not let a crisis go to waste.

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Exactly, they continue to push and push because there are no gun laws that will stop it. And then because they don't work they want more and because we are milqetoasts and never say no more one day we wake up and there is no more give to give up. I repeat there are no gun laws that will prevent people from committing mass murder.

exbrit49 said:

Count me out, I have been an active firearm owner for over 40 years. I have always obeyed all laws pertaining to my owning, using and carrying said firearms. I have been a member of the High Road for many, many years and now, as with the NRA, I QUIT!
We had two more mass shootings in the past 2 days!!! The one at the Tulsa hospital and now another new one today, (6/2/22) in Southern Wisconsin. I have read this entire thread here and didn't see one constructive suggestion as to a resolution to the problems we face. I have no problem in complying with the potential new regulations that may come out of this mess. Apologies to those shooters that perhaps, like me are realists, and realize that something has to change. Yes I will carry on shooting my substantial collection of firearms for hunting and for competitive target shooting and yes, I will continue carrying my sidearms with the licenses I have obtained for legal carry! I had no problem with obtaining the CCW permits and have carried for over 38 years.
I cannot go on reading the tone of the current posts and request the ADMINS remove me from the High Road. I will miss the reloading section etc., But I cannot, and will not be party, to discussions like this. We should be looking and working jointly with positive suggestions to what is a very real problem facing the USA! How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!

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Well, as an "exbrit" I wouldn't expect you to understand the deep-seated and well-founded mistrust of government over-reach and abuse at the core of the American experiment, but I hope you enjoy the fruits of our Founders' labors while you are here.

The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, target shooting, or even personal protection (Heller notwithstanding)- it's about deterrence. Its about ensuring that the Government does not hold a complete monopoly on the use of force and they realise that there is a line at some point they must not cross before they will be faced with an armed uprising of the citizenry so horrible, destructive, and costly that it would destroy all sides in such a conflict. It's Mutual Assured Destruction writ small, little different from the need for nuclear deterrence on the global scale. If the Govt. believes that they could easily put down such an uprising and still retain power over something resembling a country, deterrence fails.

"How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!"
Terrible, sad, and furious- at the mutated miscreant doing the killing, and those that failed to identify and stop him. Not the tool he used.
My Aunt was killed by a drunk driver. I dont blame Buick.

exbrit49 said:

Count me out, I have been an active firearm owner for over 40 years. I have always obeyed all laws pertaining to my owning, using and carrying said firearms. I have been a member of the High Road for many, many years and now, as with the NRA, I QUIT!
We had two more mass shootings in the past 2 days!!! The one at the Tulsa hospital and now another new one today, (6/2/22) in Southern Wisconsin. I have read this entire thread here and didn't see one constructive suggestion as to a resolution to the problems we face. I have no problem in complying with the potential new regulations that may come out of this mess. Apologies to those shooters that perhaps, like me are realists, and realize that something has to change. Yes I will carry on shooting my substantial collection of firearms for hunting and for competitive target shooting and yes, I will continue carrying my sidearms with the licenses I have obtained for legal carry! I had no problem with obtaining the CCW permits and have carried for over 38 years.
I cannot go on reading the tone of the current posts and request the ADMINS remove me from the High Road. I will miss the reloading section etc., But I cannot, and will not be party, to discussions like this. We should be looking and working jointly with positive suggestions to what is a very real problem facing the USA! How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!

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Well, Bye!

Sorry, you are thinking with emotion instead of facts. Glad there aren't too many like you.

Oh, to respond to "How would I feel?"...Angry, hurt...but no way would I ever agree with the gun being the problem.
That horse left the barn decades ago...never gather all the guns at this point, and besides, trying will only result in lots more dead people.

I WILL NOT SUBMIT to Colllective punishment for crimes committed by others...sorry, never gonna do it.

Gun control is evil...not the gun.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Well, as an "exbrit" I wouldn't expect you to understand the deep-seated and well-founded mistrust of government over-reach and abuse at the core of the American experiment, but I hope you enjoy the fruits of our Founders' labors while you are here.

The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, target shooting, or even personal protection (Heller notwithstanding)- it's about deterrence. Its about ensuring that the Government does not hold a complete monopoly on the use of force and they realise that there is a line at some point they must not cross before they will be faced with an armed uprising of the citizenry so horrible, destructive, and costly that it would destroy all sides in such a conflict. It's Mutual Assured Destruction writ small, little different from the need for nuclear deterrence on the global scale. If the Govt. believes that they could easily put down such an uprising and still retain power over something resembling a country, deterrence fails.

"How would you feel if a member of your family was killed in one of the increasing mass shootings!!"
Terrible, sad, and furious- at the mutated miscreant doing the killing, and those that failed to identify and stop him. Not the tool he used.
My Aunt was killed by a drunk driver. I dont blame Buick.

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Yes sir exactly.

Biden can't make the laws, if he could we wouldn't own any guns. Just let him know how you feel about his gun law ideas next election.
We need more laws about the insane in public. If these people can't stay on their meds they need to lock them up for their own safety & ours.

Truck violence, in a single scenario, killed 84 people in Nice France, and there were several other episodes of mass murder by truck in Europe and the UK.

But in the US "gun violence" is necessary for tasteless political exploitation and massive financial gain, via donations to a single political party which will remain anonymous- but only one type of gun violence is turned into cash.

The hundreds of murders of young and older people in our cities - committed overwhelmingly with handguns - is not so helpful as a “political capital” / ATM cash dispenser.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, target shooting, or even personal protection (Heller notwithstanding)- it's about deterrence. Its about ensuring that the Government does not hold a complete monopoly on the use of force and they realise that there is a line at some point they must not cross before they will be faced with an armed uprising of the citizenry so horrible, destructive, and costly that it would destroy all sides in such a conflict. It's Mutual Assured Destruction writ small, little different from the need for nuclear deterrence on the global scale. If the Govt. believes that they could easily put down such an uprising and still retain power over something resembling a country, deterrence fails.

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Well said!